what sucks is, no matter how you slice it... no matter IF NONE of these guys did anything... and all the evidence points them innocent... people are going to bitch.

..especially if this gets thrown out... they'll say.. they never even got a chance... I HOPE this doesn't get thrown out just so they can PROVE them innocent so we can hear less bitching about.. "they got away with it"..

FUCK!

5/2/2006 10:01:50 AM

so you are saying that all of

the camera (yeah I could see this being wrong)
atm (I would expect that this would sync with an atomic clock)
cell phone (again the phone probably auto updates, from an atomic clock)
taxi driver (probably has to keep the right time, his log book and other such stuff)
dorm door (again probably set at least to the time at the school)

would have to have the wrong time. Not only that they all have to be wrong it unison so that he didn't open the dorm door before he went to the atm.

5/2/2006 12:34:47 PM

no, i'm saying the begining of the time frame that we are operating on comes from the camera which likely does not sync with an atomic clock. And if that is off then it throws the entire time frame of the events. Also I am saying that he did not have to be present for the entire rape.


Go back and look at the map. It looks big but that is a small area and Durham gets dead after like 9. that is a 2-3 minute drive tops. So say the cab picks them up at 12:21 or 12:22 instead of 12:19 and they still arrive at 12:24 to the atm. If the camera is off by only 5 minutes, meaning that she stops dancing at 11:58. That leaves from 11:59 to 12:20 for a rape to occur. SHe says 30 mins but it could have been 20, or he could have not been there for the whole thing.

[Edited on May 2, 2006 at 1:00 PM. Reason : think about it]

5/2/2006 12:52:48 PM

Still you have to admit that the odds of all of these things being wrong as precisely as they would need to be wrong, and at the precise times that they would need to be, are astronomical.

5/2/2006 1:22:18 PM

Quote :

"Go back and look at the map. It looks big but that is a small area and Durham gets dead after like 9. that is a 2-3 minute drive tops. So say the cab picks them up at 12:21 or 12:22 instead of 12:19 and they still arrive at 12:24 to the atm. If the camera is off by only 5 minutes, meaning that she stops dancing at 11:58. That leaves from 11:59 to 12:20 for a rape to occur. SHe says 30 mins but it could have been 20, or he could have not been there for the whole thing."

They've already taken these into account when figuring a timeline. Most camera's also sync their clock when you download the pictures to the PC. Weren't the picutres taken with a cell phone camera anyways? Also, they know the exact time of the cab pick-up because it was recorded with the dispatcher. Of course you are also only giving the guy 60 seconds to leave in the middle of a gang rape, call for the cab, get his friends together, get to the street corner at the end of the block, and wait for the cab. Call me crazy, but to be honest I don't see myself casually walking to the corner for a cab, calling my girlfriend, and grubbin on some Cookout after a gang rape.

5/2/2006 1:54:18 PM

^ yeah, Waffle House is much better in that situation

5/2/2006 1:56:44 PM

^^ as I said early for this to even be possible he couldnt have been making the calls, someone else would have to be doing this while he was gang raping. It was a party. And he would have had to get any friends together cause only 2 of them took the cab. Most clocks are not in sync with the atomic clock. What cell phone have you seen that time stamps pictures

5/2/2006 2:20:11 PM

^Somehow I have a feeling that a good percentage of the community in Durham will be using your arguments even if turns out that 1) The jury found no guilt and 2) She wasn't even raped at all.

5/2/2006 2:39:06 PM

my argument makes sense, and I am purposely ignoring all the other evidence because this is a discussion about alabi only.

5/2/2006 2:44:55 PM

Yeah, and I'm just saying that there are many many people that would still believe a rape occurred even if the stripper came out and said she was lying.

5/2/2006 2:47:07 PM

^^ You are now getting into what is "possible." A lot of things are possible.

It is possible that District Attorney Mike Nifong, an unattractive white male running against a black female in Durham County, disguised himself as a lacrosse player, then raped the woman, just so he could prosecute the players and make himself look like the hero of the black community before election time.

It is possible that one of the lacrosse players has a twin brother who looks exactly like him, and that twin brother was angry with him so he went and raped a woman and framed his brother.

It is possible that the lacrosse players are really robots who do not have DNA, and they detached their robotic penises and left them at the party, then operated them by remote control to rape the woman.

It is possible that the lacrosse player is actually a witch and used magick to rape the woman, aided perhaps by a voodoo doll.

et cetera et cetera

OR.. it is possible that she just made the whole thing up.

Instead of focusing on what is possible, I think the focus should be on what the evidence suggests.

5/2/2006 2:49:11 PM

Quote :

"as I said early for this to even be possible he couldnt have been making the calls, someone else would have to be doing this while he was gang raping."

I don't see someone saying:

Hey, could you call my girlfriend on my phone while I'm busy gang raping. Or maybe you're saying that someone at the party grabbed his phone to look up his girlfriend's number in the directory so they could rat him out for cheating?

5/2/2006 2:52:38 PM

all that really matters is that at this point given that timeline presented as evidence there is no way that a jury can not cay that there is doubt of guilt and that is all you need in america......if the timeline doesnt fit .....you must acquit

5/2/2006 3:14:24 PM

I really think the case will be taken out on directed verdict. The question is - is that good for these boys or not? Is it better for the jury to say they are not guilty, or for a judge to toss the case for lack of evidence?

5/2/2006 3:21:08 PM

If I was gangraping a stripper I damn sure would not want anyone to call my girlfriend in the middle of it.

5/2/2006 3:34:08 PM

directed verdict is not likely at all. They have the complaining witness, who has not been proved to be a liar(definatively) so there goes the DV right there

5/2/2006 6:37:51 PM

buddha

12:05 am to 12:14 am: "Seligmann uses his cell phone to call his girlfriend 6 times and another person twice.

from this: http://www.newsobserver.com/content/news/crime_safety/duke_lacrosse/story_graphics/20060502_dukelax_alibi.jpg

So unless one of this guy's buddies called his girl 6 times while he was raping her, he does have an alibi for the "20 minutes" that you are referring to.

5/2/2006 6:50:53 PM

Quote :

"4. I havent read the affidavit of the stripper and I assume no one else has either. She says she was raped in a bathroom for 30 minutes, but its not clear as to whether all three men were present the entire time. Its possible that Seligmann went first then went to grab some burgers"

Allegedly raping strippers must cause a raging alleged appetite.

Why isn't Nifong disbarred yet?

5/2/2006 7:04:12 PM

Prawn,
I already said that twice

Quote :

"as I said early for this to even be possible he couldnt have been making the calls, someone else would have to be doing this while he was gang raping"

Quote :

"It is highly possible that Seligmann didnt make any of the calls on his cell phone, because it doesnt say that he spoke to anyone just that calls were made"

[Edited on May 2, 2006 at 8:04 PM. Reason : yeah]

5/2/2006 8:04:22 PM

Quote :

"directed verdict is not likely at all. They have the complaining witness, who has not been proved to be a liar(definatively) so there goes the DV right there"

On the contrary. If the lineup is suppressed, which I have no doubt it will be, then there is really not even that evidence. Even so, you need more than just a "she said". That would be enough to overcome a directed verdict in a civil case, but for a criminal case I think it is, as a matter of law, not enough.

5/2/2006 8:07:19 PM

Quote :

"there are many many people that would still believe a rape occurred even if the stripper came out and said she was lying."

ding, ding, ding.

5/2/2006 8:29:13 PM

so the black panthers demand justice and will intimidate the trial from now on.....what if the alleged rapists were black and the victim white and the KKK came to durham demanding justice......Double Standard......you bet your ass.

5/2/2006 8:36:41 PM

I am going to focus on one part of the story that doesnt make any sense to me.. at all.

18-19 bucks at cookout? My lord, what did they get,The left side of the menu?

5/2/2006 11:36:20 PM

There was like 3-4 f them... not that difficult to spend $5 a person. A milkshake is what.. $2 and some change?

5/2/2006 11:44:07 PM

ohhh, i thought it was between the 2 guys they left the cab. that woulda been 9-9.50 each, quite a feat

5/2/2006 11:47:34 PM

Nifong won, btw.

5/2/2006 11:49:04 PM

oh boy, who saw that one comming?

5/3/2006 12:23:54 AM

He won by a somewhat small margin though (but not too small).

I don't know anything about him or his competitors, but they all look a bit sketchy, Nifong included.

5/3/2006 12:24:57 AM

Quote :

"no, i'm saying the begining of the time frame that we are operating on comes from the camera which likely does not sync with an atomic clock. And if that is off then it throws the entire time frame of the events. Also I am saying that he did not have to be present for the entire rape."

thats not correct. the beginning of the time frame is set by the strippers recollection, which is backed up by the camera.

Quote :

"as I said early for this to even be possible he couldnt have been making the calls, someone else would have to be doing this while he was gang raping"

Quote :

"It is highly possible that Seligmann didnt make any of the calls on his cell phone, because it doesnt say that he spoke to anyone just that calls were made"

Highly possible? You've got to be kidding. is it possible?...its in the realm of possibility, sure. Highly possible?...no way, that's a pretty huge exaggeration. So in a drunken slur the lacrosse player says, hey dude, take this phone and freak the shit out of my girlfriend by calling her 6 times, and call two other people and a cab company while i gang rape this stripper. Thanks dude, later. [on a side note, the testimony of the girlfriend and two other people would be intersting to hear, and I'm sure her cell phone records will back up his in terms of time]

Bottom line, unless the prosecution has some powerful evidence that it hasn't yet talked about, this case is going nowhere and appears to be a campaign stunt for nifong. the timeline is fucked and there are some pretty huge credibility problems with the stripper...which have nothing to do with her occupation (or past occupation as this event has no doubt propelled her from)

[Edited on May 3, 2006 at 1:56 AM. Reason : ]

5/3/2006 1:55:05 AM

if Nifong is full of shit
the jury must acquit

5/3/2006 2:00:43 AM

Heres one theory:

1)Rich white kids pay black stripper to dance at a party

2)Argument ensues about how long stripper is supposed to dance. Argument might have taken place in the bathroom

3) Rich white kids unhappy with length of dancing and call her racial names which pisses off stripper

4) Stripper claims rape


(you could also substitute 2 with rich white kids pay for sexual acts in the bathroom, are unhappy with transaction etc)



Of course its very possible they raped her, but its not looking good for the home team at this point.

5/3/2006 2:00:45 AM

Quote :

"I don't know anything about him or his competitors, but they all look a bit sketchy, Nifong included."

Freda Black prosecuted Michael Peterson, the Durham novelist, for the murder of his wife, Kathleen.

5/3/2006 6:40:45 AM

Quote :

"Wolf2RangerI am going to focus on one part of the story that doesnt make any sense to me.. at all. 18-19 bucks at cookout? My lord, what did they get,The left side of the menu? msb2ncsu There was like 3-4 f them... not that difficult to spend $5 a person. A milkshake is what.. $2 and some change? Wolf2Ranger ohhh, i thought it was between the 2 guys they left the cab. that woulda been 9-9.50 each, quite a feat"

I said the same thing yesterday Wolf2Ranger ...and unless the stories have changed since I first read it, there were only 2 people in the cab, not 3-4 as msb2ncsu said.

5/3/2006 8:43:11 AM

Shouldn't those new and improved DNA tests come back on the 6'th?

5/3/2006 9:27:46 AM

"It is highly possible that Seligmann didnt make any of the calls on his cell phone, because it doesnt say that he spoke to anyone just that calls were made"

Cell phones also tell you how long the call was, not just when it was made. Just check the damn records.

5/3/2006 10:39:34 AM

OR...it could've been text messages!

5/3/2006 10:41:14 AM

^^ I have the records right here just let me check.

If the calls were significantly long then I think it would be mentioned.

5/3/2006 10:47:58 AM

Quote :

"there were only 2 people in the cab, not 3-4"

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Maybe he took the food back to his dorm to share with his friends. Haven't you ever taken orders for friends or bought food for someone other than just yourself?

He called his girlfriend 6 times (whip*crack*) and another person twice. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that he was getting someone's Cook Out order. What are you getting at anyway? OMG he spent $19 for only two people at Cook Out... he must have raped that girl!!1!!11!!!

5/3/2006 1:11:21 PM

simma dahn nah!

i think pointing out how much he spent at cook out is more of a joke that doesn't need to be taken so seriously.

5/3/2006 2:57:59 PM

look. there is no posisble way he spent that much at cookout. clearly the receipts were faked, and he raped that girl.

5/3/2006 3:16:17 PM

that must be the best feeling possible for a defendant in a rape trial, that a key piece of the prosecution's evidence is that you bought $9 worth of burgers, fries, and milkshakes

5/3/2006 3:18:32 PM

Someone just sent me this:

http://webapps6.doc.state.nc.us/apps/offender/offend1?DOCNUM=0801264&SENTENCEINFO=yes&SHOWPHOTO=yes

The rap sheet of the accuser.

Have fun.

5/3/2006 3:21:24 PM

hahahahahaha

5/3/2006 3:46:17 PM

^^

If true, then kekekkekek

5/3/2006 3:58:45 PM

the New Black Panthers are gonna pay you a visit now, son

lock ur doors

5/3/2006 4:06:37 PM

i'm sorry i ruined your black panther party

5/3/2006 4:17:31 PM

speeding to elude
Assault on a government official
DWI
Larceny

I suppose she took a car without asking, got drunk, ran from the police then tried to fight her way out.

nice

5/3/2006 5:04:24 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/9153818/detail.html

Quote :

""I'm confident a sexual assault took place in that house," Nifong said, echoing a statement he made earlier on in the investigation."

sexual assault < rape

5/3/2006 5:11:17 PM

[Edited on May 3, 2006 at 5:35 PM. Reason : ]

5/3/2006 5:20:14 PM

^check page 10

5/3/2006 5:33:31 PM