You still don't get it.


That's too bad.

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 9:55 PM. Reason : I'm done with you both.]

7/23/2008 9:55:08 PM

wow...that's a cop out if i've ever read one. i guess we finally got through to you, but you're too IGNORANT and RETARDED to admit you might have been slightly off-base in your accusations.

YEA, WELL I'M THROUGH WITH YOU, TOO.

7/23/2008 9:57:20 PM

i get it... it's KILLjadn. he probably did it.

7/23/2008 9:58:44 PM

You didn't get through to anyone, you moron.

I'm just tired of showing you the obvious, and you being too fucking stupid to absorb it.

I'm the one who's trying to do the "getting through," and it's obviously not taking because you both lack the mental capacity to understand.

7/23/2008 10:00:22 PM

hey i got an idea, lets get some boxing gloves

7/23/2008 10:02:44 PM

unbiased doesn't mean that you assume their innocence. That would be a biased jury. an unbiased jury has no opinion either way.

Innocence until proven guilty was established by Coffin vs. United States in 1895. Just because you want to infer it from the 6th amendment doesn't mean it existed at the time of the Constitution.

7/23/2008 10:04:42 PM

somebody was murdered, let's argue about it on tww!!

7/23/2008 10:05:53 PM

at this point we're not even arguing about the murder. we're arguing about whether or not you can have an opinion about someone's guilt or innocence while still believing they are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

7/23/2008 10:07:00 PM

Quote :

"Jessica Adam, who reported Nancy Cooper missing, stated in an affidavit: "I believe that Brad murdered Nancy.""

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3256442/

7/23/2008 10:08:55 PM

^ from that story

Quote :

"But Brad Cooper's attorneys say in another motion that Nancy Cooper described her husband as a "fit father" and that she had been seeking joint custody prior to her death because "she believed it was in her daughters' best interest to have contact with their father." The motion also alleges Nancy Cooper had an "extramarital encounter" and that his "liaison" with another woman should have no bearing on Brad Cooper's fitness as a parent. In an affidavit, Brad Cooper said his wife's "extramarital relationship" occurred four years before their oldest daughter was born. "Nancy insisted that she did nothing wrong, that her relationship with the other man only happened once, it wasn't sexual and that no one even knew his name," the document stated. Stubbs had no comment about the claim Wednesday afternoon. In the affidavit, Brad Cooper also denies that he threatened to commit suicide and admit to having a "heated argument" with his wife once when his children were present. Otherwise, "we rarely had them in front of the children and usually did not yell at each other," he said. He also speaks about claims that he withheld funds, saying his wife's spending habits amounted to approximately $45,000 in "unmanageable" credit card debt. "

7/23/2008 10:09:55 PM

Quote :

"It is stated as unquestioned in the textbooks, and has been referred to as a matter of course in the decisions of this Court and in the courts of the several states. See Taylor on Evidence, vol. 1, c. 5, 126, 127; Wills on Circumstantial Evidence, c. 5, 91; Best on Presumptions, part 5, §§ 63, 64; c. 3, 31-58; Greenleaf on Evidence, part 5, §§ 29, &c.; 11 Criminal Law Magazine 3; Wharton on Evidence § 1244; Phillips on Evidence, Cowen & Hill's Notes, vol. 2, p. 289; Lilienthal's Tobacco v. United States, 97 U. S. 237; Hopt v. Utah, 120 U. S. 430; Commonwealth v. Webster, 5 Cush. 320; State v. Bartlett, 43 N.H. 224; Alexander v. People, 96 Ill. 96; People v. Fairchild, 48 Mich. 31; People v. Millard, 53 Mich. 63; Commonwealth v. Whittaker, 131 Mass. 224; Blake v. State, 3 Tex.App. 581; Wharton v. State, 73 Ala. 366; State v. Tibbetts, 35 Me. 81; Moorer v. State, 44 Ala. 15. Greenleaf traces this presumption to Deuteronomy, and quotes Mascardius Do Probationibus to show that it was substantially embodied in the laws of Sparta and Athens. Greenl.Ev. part 5, section 29, note. Whether Greenleaf is correct or not in this view, there can be no question that the Roman law was pervaded with the results of this maxim of criminal administration, as the following extracts show: "Let all accusers understand that they are not to prefer charges unless they can be proven by proper witnesses or by conclusive documents, or by circumstantial evidence which amounts to indubitable proof and is clearer than day." "

From Coffin V US, 1895.

Just because a judge pointed out that something exists in 1895 doesn't mean that it was the first time it had ever appeared.

Jesus kid, you would think you'd actually read the shit you throw at me before you use it to try and support your point.






And i'm for real tired of arguing semantics with you both. The point stands.

You can form a personal opinion over guilt or innocence, that's fine.

But if you have prejudiced yourself in either direction, you are automatically going against the concept of due process and cannot as a result say that you believe in it.


[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 10:21 PM. Reason : its not that hard of a concept to understand]

7/23/2008 10:18:23 PM

If the kids have already been taken to Canada, it'll be years before Brad Cooper sees them again.

7/23/2008 10:21:20 PM

45K in credit card debt? I hardly call that withholding funds.

7/23/2008 10:23:38 PM

i've said it before, and i'll say it again

toMAYtoh
toMAHtoh

ya know what kiljadn, it's your opinion versus my opinion. we're each entitled to it, and we don't have to accept each other's opinions as right or wrong - the opinions exist regardless of anything else.

so i'm letting this rest, have a great night and sweet dreams.

VIVA LA BRAD

7/23/2008 10:28:24 PM

More like your opinion versus my cold, hard, logic-based fact.


I can't make it any plainer than i already have, but whatever.

7/23/2008 10:33:06 PM

Quote :

"More like your opinion versus my cold, hard, logic-based fact."

wrong

it is your opinion that thinking someone is guilty means you don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty"

it is my opinion that thinking someone is guilty has nothing to do with believing in "innocent until proven guilty"

it is all about interpretation my friend, and nothing more. like i said - toMAYtoh, toMAHtoh.

7/23/2008 10:35:54 PM

^ && ^^

7/23/2008 10:36:18 PM

HAH! beating (burning?) a dead horse!

i like it.

7/23/2008 10:37:16 PM

oooh, a delicious dead horse!

7/23/2008 10:37:56 PM

FINALLY, something we agree on.

sweet dreams, dear kiljadn.

7/23/2008 10:38:55 PM

i was wondering about the with holding funds part. only because the store i work at isn't cheap (its a children's boutique with like $150 dresses for little kids). so i didn't really get how he was with holding funds and she was still shopping (clearly, the credit cards) but still. the fam said she borrowed money to buy food. if that really was happening then she probably shouldn't have been shopping so much. again, if everything that has been said is true. which it probably isn't. i'm just saying...seemed a little odd.

7/23/2008 10:45:33 PM

Sometimes, instead of watching the news, I'll look for updates on TWW...and it's not worth is because of rifling through all the arguing.

And if you make another thread in the lounge for legitimate conversation, it will get locked, deleted, or moved.

As for her spending habits...

Quote :

"He also speaks about claims that he withheld funds, saying his wife's spending habits amounted to approximately $45,000 in "unmanageable" credit card debt. "

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 11:07 PM. Reason : ]

7/23/2008 10:50:29 PM

^^makes a valid point

7/23/2008 11:25:20 PM

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/cooper_affidavit.pdf

affidavit

[Edited on July 24, 2008 at 12:42 AM. Reason : i]

7/24/2008 12:41:50 AM

^i read the entire thing and it's frustrating to see how his life has been ruined if he truly is innocent, which i believe he is.

7/24/2008 1:18:07 AM

^^wow, #61 really stands out to me....I mean thats a perfectly good reason to toss that bitch in a ditch....

7/24/2008 2:09:14 AM

#65


yea fucking right.

when a girl says they didnt do anything, they did everything sexual you can imagine.




also... by the looks of it, she was a gold digger

[Edited on July 24, 2008 at 2:13 AM. Reason : x]

7/24/2008 2:11:21 AM

#20 - I hate the idea of playdates lol.

#72, 73 -

Sounds like a gold digger.

7/24/2008 2:43:01 AM

after reading that, I am like "wow". Glad to actually see what he has to say about the whole thing, and I'm really thinking he's innocent.

7/24/2008 4:33:12 AM

#169-180... obviously they'll look at his cell phone records, but this will help him if they find it's consistent with what he says. it's good to read his side of things, especially that he's trying to win custody of his daughters.

7/24/2008 6:50:05 AM

141 and 142 are disturbing.

94 seems pretty fucking shady.


Interesting that WRAL did not post Brad Cooper's affidavit, but they did post the separation papers (an attachment to the affidavit). Balanced reporting FTW!

[Edited on July 24, 2008 at 7:42 AM. Reason : ]

7/24/2008 7:17:36 AM

typical cary housewife

7/24/2008 7:46:41 AM

i'm beginning to think he's innocent, since his lawyers are fighting for the autopsy results to be released. now, if he had murdered his wife, then he wouldn't want the autopsy results made public, for fear there is something in there that incriminates him. so if they're asking for it - then maybe he really is innocent.

regardless, i'm gonna read the affidavit now and report back in a little bit.

7/24/2008 8:52:11 AM

girl i was seeing's parents live in that same neighborhood.. like just a few houses down

theyre slightly freaked the fuck out

7/24/2008 9:00:21 AM

very interesting change to the story (media-wise) now that we see his side of the story

7/24/2008 9:13:36 AM

Wow I just sat and read the whole affidavit. I never ever suspected him, and this totally makes me feel good about that.

I feel so sorry for him

7/24/2008 9:27:06 AM

so the plot thickens

[Edited on July 24, 2008 at 9:28 AM. Reason : remind me never to live in cary]

7/24/2008 9:28:19 AM

Yeah, like I've said from the beginning--I really hope it wasn't him just so everyone that assumed he was guilty can shove it up their ass

7/24/2008 9:28:48 AM

^ word. but not word if he actually did it.

7/24/2008 9:29:37 AM

word

7/24/2008 9:30:22 AM

true

7/24/2008 9:30:31 AM

she does not appear to be a very fit mother.

7/24/2008 9:32:01 AM

going by that affidavit, aside from the fact that he loved her and what her parents are doing, her death seems like a good thing for him

[Edited on July 24, 2008 at 9:34 AM. Reason : dude was getting used]

7/24/2008 9:33:28 AM

Women be shoppin'

7/24/2008 9:35:17 AM

according the the affidavit they haven't had sex in over two years. that would make me want to cheat on my wife too.

7/24/2008 9:36:03 AM

ok, so after reading the whole thing, i think i'm going to withdraw my opinion of guilt. however, i don't think i'm going to enter an opinion of innocence either.

basically, there are things he says in that affidavit that make me feel really bad for him and for what's happened to his family. but there are also things he says that give him motive and a half, ya know? her overspending, staying out late nights, that whole "take the kids to canada while they work out the separation agreement" thing.

however, a lot of what he says can be verified (and probably already has been), be it phone records or bank account records. like, his story about why he bought Tide (not bleach!) that morning is totally corraborated with his phone records, if it shows his wife calling him at that time. you can also verify him calling her friends looking for her, and even verify that he walked into Lifetime Fitness that afternoon looking for her. however, when he says she went out every night and came home really late - that's not really all that verifiable, unless you find out who she was with and figure out where they went. and if it happened often enough - well, i'm just not sure how they'd prove that those statements were true. but even if they don't have bank account records that show her purchasing all that crazy and excessive shit, she certainly probably has it all in her closet or bedroom, proving that she did in fact buy a $1,300 laptop bag?!?! I MEAN WTF PEOPLE.

anyways, i can't really say that i feel he is guilty anymore than i can say he is innocent. no more judgement for me though. i'm just really eager to see what happens in this case, so i'll probably keep following it like a bandit until they bring it to some sort of resolution.

7/24/2008 9:40:22 AM

Quote :

"her death seems like a good thing for him"

yes, given his statements in that affidavit, he's pretty much given himself plenty of motive to do it. but the cops have probably verified a lot of his statements and realize that in all likelihood, motive or not, he just didn't do it.

7/24/2008 9:42:18 AM

just stop typing.

7/24/2008 9:42:57 AM

loler

7/24/2008 9:43:21 AM

aww, that wasn't very nice

i'm sorry, i just really love all this crime drama shit. seriously, half the shows on my DVR are true crime shows

i'll be quiet and get back to work now...

7/24/2008 9:44:37 AM