Sounds more like teh situation is becoming more unstable and could explode.

11/3/2011 11:55:11 AM

jesus, that's a lot of people.

video of people: http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/raw-video-newschopper-2-footage-of-huge-crowd/vD4mx/















[Edited on November 3, 2011 at 11:07 PM. Reason : front page of cnn.com? michael jackson's doctor...]

11/3/2011 10:50:31 PM

The "attacking cops" in Oakland and "violence" was perpetrated by agent provocateurs. Most notably the group "Black Bloc" infiltrated and their only goal was to cause trouble. This unfortunately isn't the first time they have done this at notable protests. They tend to like ruining things for everyone else.

11/4/2011 9:01:08 AM

^Yeah, that is their goal isn't it? To cause chaos and rioting. Black Bloc that is.

11/4/2011 9:16:19 AM

Quote :

"The "attacking cops" in Oakland and "violence" was perpetrated by agent provocateurs. Most notably the group "Black Bloc" infiltrated and their only goal was to cause trouble. This unfortunately isn't the first time they have done this at notable protests. They tend to like ruining things for everyone else."

Uh yeah this fact-based analysis shit has to go elsewhere; unless you're imagining that reality would change the minds of a bunch of peckerwoods who are convinced this is nothing more than a mob of violent hippies plugged into a hive-mind receiving orders directly from George Soros

11/4/2011 9:44:51 AM

^^ As far as I know yes. They do it at the G8 and G20 protests all the time.

11/4/2011 10:20:08 AM

Worth reposting, especially for all of you OWS-Pro-Obama idiots (yes, if you are Pro-OWS and Pro-Obama, you are an idiot).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mf-global-ties-awkward-for-obama-campaign/2011/11/02/gIQA9w5ogM_print.html

MF Global ties awkward for Obama campaign - Washington Post - T.W. Farnam

Quote :

"The bankrupt financial company MF Global, now under federal investigation for possibly misusing clients’ money, is one of the top sources of contributions for President Obama’s reelection, complicating the campaign’s effort to turn public anger at Wall Street into a political advantage. Employees of the company have given $108,650 to Obama’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee, according to federal records. MF Global’s chairman and chief executive, former New Jersey governor Jon Corzine, has raised at least $500,000 for the campaign and the DNC as a “bundler,” or volunteer fundraiser. Mitt Romney is the only other major presidential candidate who reports receiving money from an MF Global employee, listing a $2,500 check from a company trader based in Stamford, Conn. MF Global declared bankruptcy Monday, becoming the first U.S. victim of the European debt crisis. The FBI plans to conduct a preliminary probe into reports that hundreds of millions of dollars are missing from client accounts, federal law enforcement officials said. The situation shows the political risk of relying on big money bundlers who can collect checks from friends and colleagues. Trouble can often rub off on candidates when they’re getting help from powerful public figures. Obama’s campaign has released a list of 350 bundlers who have raised at least $50,000, including 40 who have raised more than $500,000 each. MF Global did not return a request for comment. A company attorney said in a recent bankruptcy court hearing that the company was not aware of any missing funds. Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said in a statement that the president has been tougher on Wall Street companies than the Republican opposition. “While the president passed Wall Street reform to combat risky financial deals that put our entire economy at risk,” LaBolt said, “Mitt Romney and the Republican candidates would let Wall Street write its own rules again no matter what the consequences for middle class families.” The Obama campaign said it would return contributions from any MF Global employees, including Corzine, if they are charged with crimes related to the company’s collapse. A Romney spokeswoman declined to comment. MF Global recently made a bond sale with an unusual clause, saying the interest rate on the bonds would rise 1 percent if Corzine ended up being appointed to a post in the Obama administration. There has been speculation that he could be in line for Treasury secretary if the president is reelected. The president has voiced support for recent protests against the financial industry and his campaign aides have said they plan to use the Occupy Wall Street movement to help build momentum for his reelection. “I think it expresses the frustrations that the American people feel,” Obama said in a news conference last month. “The protesters are giving voice to a more broad based frustration with how our financial system works…. The American people understand that not everybody’s been following the rules, that Wall Street is an example of that.” Obama held his first New York fundraiser for the reelection campaign at Corzine’s home on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, overlooking Central Park. Guests gave the maximum $35,800 donation to Obama and the DNC. Obama’s links to financial companies don’t end with MF Global. The president has raised $15.6 million from the financial industry for his reelection effort and the DNC, according to a Washington Post analysis. The third-largest source of cash for Obama is Chicago-based Chopper Trading, which employs a controversial high-frequency trading technique. The firm’s chief executive, Raj Fernando, held a fundraiser at his home with Vice President Biden and has raised at least $200,000 for the campaign and the DNC. A federal study of the 2010 “flash crash,” when the stock market briefly lost $1 trillion in value only to recover shortly thereafter, placed the blame squarely on high-frequency trading technologies like those employed by Chopper. Other studies have cited high-frequency trading, which now accounts for more than half of all trades, as contributing to stock market volatility. A company spokesman did not return a request for comment, but defenders of the industry dispute those studies. [b]Obama has raised $48,572 from Credit Suisse employees. The bank’s Swiss parent company is under investigation for allegedly helping Americans avoid taxes with offshore accounts. The bank is at top funder of Romney’s campaign, with workers donating $180,250.[b]"

11/4/2011 10:48:48 AM

Any and every politician at that level is guaranteed to have benefitted from some money that was donated with strings attached. That's what's wrong with the current system. Political campaigns cost a lot of money and those contributions in our system have to come from private parties. Election campaign reform is one of the OWS goals.

11/4/2011 11:22:14 AM

I wish Fred Hampton wasn't murdered by the FBI/Chicago Police so he could see the Occupy Movement.

[Edited on November 4, 2011 at 1:59 PM. Reason : ...]

11/4/2011 1:57:59 PM

dumping my bank on Monday

fuck banks

11/4/2011 3:47:29 PM

I am pro OWS but not pro Obama.

11/4/2011 4:55:16 PM

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=niall+ferguson+ascent+of+money&aq=3s&oq=naill+ferguson

11/4/2011 4:58:19 PM

well played.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1oHRdiklTlU

Scott Walker is such a cunt

11/5/2011 5:28:36 PM

Quote :

"dumping my bank on Monday"

I get the symbolism they were trying to go for with having bank transfer day be on the 5th of Nov, but someone really should have thought that one through given how many banks are closed on weekends. Having it on a friday would have had a larger impact I think.

11/5/2011 5:44:12 PM

yep. shutting down a business is truly a "peaceful protest." They should all be arrested and thrown in jail. You certainly have the right to protest. You don't have the right to block all traffic in and out of a port. Fuck them all

11/5/2011 5:57:29 PM

all:

Predeterminer:
Used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing: "all the people I met"; "10% of all cars sold".

11/5/2011 6:57:40 PM

you don't think that the people blocking the port should have been arrested?

11/5/2011 6:58:51 PM

Yes. Every one. I think that the protestors cleaning up the graffiti from the "protestors" the night before should be arrested too. They should know better than to protest somewhere where there's a chance that someone else, affiliated or unaffiliated, might vandalize something. Actual intention matters not.

[Edited on November 5, 2011 at 7:04 PM. Reason : ]

11/5/2011 7:03:20 PM

OH MY HATRED



ROT IN JAIL YOU HIPPIES!

11/5/2011 7:08:33 PM

where did I say those people should be arrested? right. I didn't.

11/5/2011 7:11:22 PM

Quote :

"yep. shutting down a business is truly a "peaceful protest." They should all be arrested and thrown in jail. You certainly have the right to protest. You don't have the right to block all traffic in and out of a port. Fuck them all"

I got the part where you said "all".

Didn't get the part where you said "only those blocking the port", or anything other qualifier for that matter.

The entire point of that picture is that the people cleaning are protestors.

[Edited on November 5, 2011 at 7:14 PM. Reason : ]

11/5/2011 7:13:51 PM

Assuming for a minute you were to arrest ALL of these people, where exactly would you put them?

Video of how many people participated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4jYdCaHrjQ

11/5/2011 7:26:06 PM

Quote :

"The entire point of that picture is that the people cleaning are protestors."

You can't reason with burro. He thinks they are ALL guilty of something. Which is stupid, if I go to an NC State football game, and someone decides to shoot another tailgater, the appropriate response is not to arrest all tailgaters.

11/5/2011 7:27:56 PM

Quote :

"if I go to an NC State football game, and someone decides to shoot another tailgater, the appropriate response is not to arrest all tailgaters."

God, you're such a dumb liberal.

11/5/2011 9:47:16 PM

Quote :

"NY: 10/1/11 — Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge Madison, WI: 10-27-11 — Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation Phoenix: 10/28/11 — Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?” NY: 10/18/11 — Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters NY: 10/9/11 — Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR NY: 10/7/11 — Occupiers Rush Police … More Cleveland: 10/18/11 — ‘Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped NY: 10/10/11 — ‘Increasingly Debauched’: Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street? Seattle: 10/18/11 — Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested 10/12/11 — Iran Supports ‘Occupy Wall Street’ Portland: 10/16/11 – #OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead Chicago: 10/17/11 — COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago 10/15/11 — American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street‘s ’Courage,‘ Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight ’Judeo-Capitalist Banksters’ Boston: 10/14/11 — Coast Guard member spit on near Occupy Boston tents New York: 10/11/11 — “You Can Have Sex with Animals.” New York: 10/9/11 — ‘Occupy Wallstreet’ Protesters Steal from Local Businesses New York: 10/25/11 — Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape Baltimore: 10/18/11 — #OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims from Contacting Police Portland: 10/27/11 — Occupy Portland’s Attempt At Wealth Redistribution Ends In Theft Los Angeles: 10/14/11 – Anti-Semitic Protester at Occupy Wall Street 10/27/11 — A Death Threat From an Occupy Wall Street Protester 10/27/11 – Anti-Semitic Tweet From Occupier or Sympathizer Boston: 10/20/11 — Occupy Boston Doesn’t Want Police Involved in Rape New York: 10/5/11: Anti-Semitic Occupier Screams About Jews, Israel New York: 10/4/11 — Occupier Taunts Jewish Man Boston: 10/11 — Occupiers Block Street New York: 10/11 — Occupier Tries to Steal Police Officer’s Gun Eugene, OR: 10/19/11 — Occupiers Displace Farmers’ Market Threatening Hundreds of Jobs Portland, OR: 10/18/11 — Capitalist Offering Jobs at Occupy Portland Finds Few Takers NY: 10/20/11 — #OccupyWallStreet Threatens Businesses, Patrons NY: 10/14/11 — Violence Breaks Out During #OccupyWallStreet March Toward Stock Exchange NY: 10/14/11 — Protesters March On Wall Street, Scuffle With Cops Oakland: 10/19/11 — #OccupyOakland Protesters Threaten Reporter Oakland: 10/26/11 — Occupiers Scuffle with Police Oakland: 10/24/11 — Protesters Storm, Vandalize, Shut Down Chase Bank Dayton, OH: 10/22/11 — Protester: ‘F*ck The Military, F*ck Your Flag, And F*ck The Police’ Chicago: 10/14/11 — Protesters’ Message At #OccupyChicago Rally: ‘Destroy Israel’ NY: 10/23/11 — #OccupyWallStreet Supporter Rants Against Israel, Jews NY: 10/22/11 — #Occupy Kid: ‘Burn Wall Street, Burn!’ NY: 10/21/11 — New Yorkers Fed Up With Noisy, Defecating Protesters Oakland: 10/21/11 — Occupy Oakland Evicted After Reports Of Crime And Intimidation Oakland: 10/19/11 — #OccupyOakland Out of Control: Rats, Graffiti, Vandalism, Sexual Harassment, Public Sex and Urination Chicago: 10/26/11 — Occupiers Under Investigation by FBI for Links to Terrorism Cleveland: 10/29/11 — Rape Reported at Occupy Cleveland Dallas: 10/24/11 — Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas Bloomington, IN: 10/26/11 — Man Claims Occupy Bloomington Protesters Drugged, Handcuffed Him NY: 10/10/11 — Sex, Drugs and Hiding from the Law at Wall Street Protests Glasgow: 10/26/11 — Woman Gang-Raped Boston: 10/23/11 — Occupy Boston Protesters Arrested For Dealing Heroin – With 6 Year-Old in Tent Portland: 10/16/11 — Sex Offender Registers Occupy Portland Camp as Address Denver: 10/15/11 — Occupy Denver Demonstrator Accused of Groping TV Photographer Lawrence, KS: 10/25/11 — Sexual Assault Reported at Occupy Camp Minneapolis, MN: Bricks, Rocks, ‘Riot Supplies’ Discovered by Police Phoenix, AZ: 10/27/11 — Neo-Nazis Patrol “Occupy Phoenix” With AR-15's Chicago: 10/26/11 — Occupy Chicago Invades City Hall 10/26/11 — ACORN, Occupy Email Talks About Assault on Banks 10/26/11 — OccupyWallStreet Strategy for Reports of Violence Against Cops Chicago: 10/26/11 — Unrepentant Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayers Wows Occupiers Chicago: 10/25/11 — Ayers Coaches #OccupyChicago, Callsg for School ‘Occupations’ 10/26/11/ — Occupy Protests Have Jewish Leaders Concerned Wash DC: 10/27/11 — OccupyDC Leftists Provoke Police – Hang Flag on Top of DC Statue Albuquerque, NM: 10/26/11 — Occupy Squatters Riot With Police San Diego: 10/25/11 — Flag Used as Chew Toy by Occupier’s Dog Oakland: 10/25/11 — Occupiers Throw Bottles at Police NY: 10/27/11 — Occupy Wall Street Protesters: Rush Limbaugh Is Bigger Threat Than Al-Qaeda 10/27/11 — Occupy Wall Street Launching First Nationwide General Strike in America Since 1946 NY: 10/28/11 — Fox 5 News Reporter Assaulted at OWS 10/28/2001 — Total Occupy Arrests Made Thus Far: 2750 Nashville: 10/28/11 — 30 Arrests Made at Wall St. Protest NY: 10/20/11 — Former Marine Tries to Taunt Police into Violence NY: 1023/11 — Islamist Group Joins with Occupy Wall Street Los Angeles: 10/13/11 — Roundup of Overt Occupy anti-Semitism NY: 10/12/11 — There are No Anti-Semites at Occupy Wall Street. Except for This Guy Missoula, MT: 10/20/11 — Drunk 11-Year-Old At Occupy Missoula, Adult Arrested Oakland: 10/28/11 — Bounty Out On Police Officer? Manchester, NH: 10/28/11 — Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally San Diego: 10/28/11 — 40 Occupiers arrested Boston: 10/24/11 — Occupy Boston Vandalism of Banks Boston: 10/25/11 — Store Owner Suffers 4 Break Ins Since Occupy Boston Began Portland: 10/28/11 — Portland Police: Buckets of Excrement Scattered Around #OccupyPortland Camp Seattle: 10/20/11 — Two Possible Occupiers Charged With Assault Seattle: 10/18/11 — Armed Felon Arrested at Occupy Seattle Seattle: 10/18/11 — A Tent Fight and (At Least) One Arrest at Occupy Seattle Seattle: 10/17/11 — Over 50 Cops Clear Westlake Occupation, Make Eight Arrests Seattle: 10/13/11 — Cops Arrest Several Occupy Protesters Seattle: 10/13/11 — Chanting Protesters Surround Police After Officers Arrest Two Denver: 10/29/11 — Protesters Clash with Police at OWS Denver Austin: 10/13/11 — Occupy Austin protesters arrested for blocking cleaning Crews Calgary, CN: 10/28/11 — Occupiers do $40,000 in Property Damage Cincinnati, OH: 10/21/11 — 23 Arrested, Remains of protests fill two dumpsters Sacramento: 10/19/11 — 9 arrested in ‘Occupy Sacramento’ protest Sacramento: 10/13/11 — Four More Occupy Sacramento Demonstrators Arrested Austin, TX: 10/22/11 — Man Arrested After Knife Incident at Occupy Austin Camp Nashville: 10/29/11 — Tenn. Protesters Arrested For 2nd Straight Night Austin, TX: 10/30/11 — Austin Police arrest 38 Occupy Austin Protesters NY: 10/30/11 — Woman Assaulted in Her tent Asheville, NC: 10/30/11 — Occupiers Clash with Homeless in Asheville NY: 10/29/11 — Three Incidents of Anti-Semitism San Francisco: 10/29/11 — Anti-Semitic, Folsom Street Fair Types & Che Guevara Lovin Oklahoma City: 10/30/11 — Death of Street Poet at #OccupyOKC Treated as Homicide Baltimore: 10/31/11 — Woman Claims She was Raped at #OccupyBaltimore Boston: 10/31/2001 — Alleged Heroin Dealer Joined Occupy Movement Ottawa: 10/31/11 — #OccupyOttawa Violent & Sexual Assaults Not Reported to Police Denver, CO: 10/31/11 — Occupiers Taunt Police, Knock Motorcycle Cop to Ground Dallas, TX: 10/24/11 — 23 Occupy Dallas Protesters Arrested After Bank Demonstration Richmond, VA: 10/31/11 — Arrests of Occupiers in Richmond Dallas, TX: 1v1/1/11: Man Arrested for Child Sex assault at Occupy Dallas Camp NY: 11/1/11 — Protesters Flock to STD-Test Clinics After Occupier ‘Free Love’ Iowa: 11/1/11 — Occupiers Intend to Disrupt Iowa Caucus NY: 11/1/11 — Occupy Wall Street Costs Main Street Workers Their Jobs San Diego: 10/29/11 — Businesswoman Closes Shop After Threats By Occupiers Oakland, CA: 11/3/11 — Rallies Turn Violent Seattle, WA: 11/2/11 — Cops, Protesters Clash Oakland, CA: 11/3/11 — Protests Degenerate Into Chaos Tulsa, OK: 11/2/11 — Occupiers Clash With Police Sacramento, CA: 11/2/11 — Occupiers Smash County Vehicle Windows Philadelphia: 11/2/11 — Occupiers Arrested Charlottesville, VA: 11/1/11 — Underage Drinking at Occupy Charlottesville Site Portland: 11/2/11 — Occupier Shoves Police Officer into Moving Bus Oakland: 11/2/11 — Malkin’s Collection of Vandalism and Menacing Signs NYC: 11/3/11 — Occupier Busted In Tent Grope, Suspected In Rape NYC: 11/4/11 — 16 OWS Protesters Arrested at Goldman Sachs HQ Oakland, CA: 11-3-11 — Occupy-Friendly Business Vandalized NYC: 11/4/11 — Deranged Homeless Man Goes on Violent Rampage In Zuccotti Park Dallas, TX: CPS Seizes Baby From ‘Occupy Dallas’ Site Wash DC: 11/4/11 — Occupier Uses Child as Human Shield Wash DC: 11/4/11 — Occupiers Try to Storm Americans for Prosperity Event Atlanta: 11/3/11 — Protester Turns On Fellow Protester With Knife Los Angeles: 10/28/11 — Drug Use and Property Damage Boston, MA: 11/4/11 — 3 Charged With Dealing Crack; Occupy Boston ‘Deteriorating’ Boston, MA: 11/4/11 — Occupiers Storm Israeli Consulate; Anti-Israel Chants "

11/5/2011 10:22:10 PM

Quote :

"Man Arrested for Child Sex assault at Occupy Dallas Camp"

Quote :

"Woman Assaulted in Her tent"

Quote :

"Armed Felon Arrested at Occupy Seattle"

Quote :

"Store Owner Suffers 4 Break Ins Since Occupy Boston Began"

Direct action by the Occupy Movement? Of course! Only those hairbrain liberals don't get that.

11/5/2011 10:32:50 PM

I drove past the occupy Raleigh protesters this afternoon....all 15 of them

11/5/2011 10:55:02 PM

^The reason there were only 15 or so is because people rotate out in shifts. It isn't easy when you can't camp or really maintain supplies to stay there all the time. Additionally (believe it or not) most have jobs and/or other obligations at times. The peak times are usually in the evenings when GA meetings take place. The occupation has gone on 24/7 since 10/15 and today is day 23. Yesterday we had a group take part in National Bank Transfer day so only a few held the sidewalk while that went on.

On another note the support from people driving by has been overwhelmingly positive from honking to dropping off food and water to cash donations on the spot. There the few cliche middle fingers and "get a job hippy" comments but they seem few and far between and only serve keep things interesting . The fact is during the city council meeting we had plenty on hand to fill that room. We had 1,000 for the opening rally on 10/15 but only a small percentage of people will actually stay dedicated and occupy. This isn't New York or Oakland. This is Raleigh (a much smaller town and not really in a progressive area of the country overall) so getting those sorts of numbers is a pretty tall order.

11/6/2011 9:31:01 AM

^I have seen pickup basketball games with more people than that

if people are going to protest they need to go big and do it right or not do it at all



these cats have the right idea

[Edited on November 6, 2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2011 10:11:50 AM

Quote :

"The occupation has gone on 24/7 since 10/15 and today is day 23."

What has been accomplished, besides the list of crimes committed above?

11/6/2011 5:29:34 PM

I don't even see Raleigh in your list. And have you even bothered looking at the list? Half of the "crimes" committed aren't even crimes.

Quote :

" Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?” ‘Increasingly Debauched’: Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street? Iran Supports ‘Occupy Wall Street’ COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago “You Can Have Sex with Animals.” Anti-Semitic Protester at Occupy Wall Street Anti-Semitic Tweet From Occupier or Sympathizer Anti-Semitic Occupier Screams About Jews, Israel Occupier Taunts Jewish Man Occupiers Displace Farmers’ Market Threatening Hundreds of Jobs Capitalist Offering Jobs at Occupy Portland Finds Few Takers OccupyWallStreet Threatens Businesses, Patrons Protester: ‘F*ck The Military, F*ck Your Flag, And F*ck The Police’ Protesters’ Message At #OccupyChicago Rally: ‘Destroy Israel’ OccupyWallStreet Supporter Rants Against Israel, Jews Occupy Kid: ‘Burn Wall Street, Burn!’ New Yorkers Fed Up With Noisy, Defecating Protesters Bricks, Rocks, ‘Riot Supplies’ Discovered by Police Occupy Chicago Invades City Hall ACORN, Occupy Email Talks About Assault on Banks OccupyWallStreet Strategy for Reports of Violence Against Cops Unrepentant Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayers Wows Occupiers Ayers Coaches #OccupyChicago, Callsg for School ‘Occupations’ Occupy Protests Have Jewish Leaders Concerned Hang Flag on Top of DC Statue Flag Used as Chew Toy by Occupier’s Dog Occupy Wall Street Protesters: Rush Limbaugh Is Bigger Threat Than Al-Qaeda Occupy Wall Street Launching First Nationwide General Strike in America Since 1946 Former Marine Tries to Taunt Police into Violence Islamist Group Joins with Occupy Wall Street Roundup of Overt Occupy anti-Semitism There are No Anti-Semites at Occupy Wall Street. Except for This Guy Occupiers Clash with Homeless in Asheville Three Incidents of Anti-Semitism Anti-Semitic, Folsom Street Fair Types & Che Guevara Lovin Protesters Flock to STD-Test Clinics After Occupier ‘Free Love’ Occupiers Intend to Disrupt Iowa Caucus Occupy Wall Street Costs Main Street Workers Their Jobs Occupiers Try to Storm Americans for Prosperity Event Occupiers Storm Israeli Consulate; Anti-Israel Chants "

Are these even crimes? What e-mail chain sent you this? Aside from the obvious attempt to smear the Occupy protesters as a bunch of anti-semites and che guevarra lovers, I really don't see what this list is trying to prove. Anyone who vandalizes and assaults people should be arrested. The rest of the "crimes" listed just grate your conservative sensibilities, and are not illegal. The salty language makes things sound much worse than it really is, and there looks like there are a lot of unsubstantiated rumors in the list as well. Seriously, where did you get this list?



[Edited on November 6, 2011 at 7:26 PM. Reason : ]

11/6/2011 7:21:44 PM

Yeah...I emboldened the instances where serious crimes were alleged, italicized when Anti-Semitism was displayed (which, in some of the "cooler" European countries, is illegal), and underlined instances when the OWS crowds actually hurt business (mostly small business that would probably fall into the "99%".

I thought you would have figured that one out by now.

11/6/2011 9:23:34 PM

that does nothing to help your argument.

many of the bold claims insinuate crimes, and don't specify what crimes are being committed

italicized acts aren't fucking crimes. and we're not in some "cool" european country, so that means nothing.

underlined crimes aren't even that many crimes. aside from a few acts of vandalism, there aren't that many crimes in your list.


The rest is a bunch of propaganda and bullshit. your list sucks, just admit it.




and say, what would you classify this as? bold, italicized, or underlined?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0pX9LeE-g8

[Edited on November 6, 2011 at 9:47 PM. Reason : ]

11/6/2011 9:40:38 PM

You need to rethink what you're offering as the bold events.

What likelihood was there for any given offense that it was committed by an occupier?

Many of the offenses where it IS overtly claimed that it was done by and occupier (which are few to begin with) are extremely dubious, as is whatever source gave you this list that was fast track on the way to discrediting itself with the exaggerations that are obvious.

11/6/2011 9:50:31 PM

11/6/2011 9:56:27 PM

Quote :

"San Diego: 10/25/11 — Flag Used as Chew Toy by Occupier’s Dog"

Goddamn liberal puppies are out to destroy 'murrika.

11/6/2011 9:59:53 PM

Go back to bed America. You are free to do as we tell you.

11/6/2011 10:16:13 PM

"in order to qualify for welfare, you have to quit your job"

11/6/2011 10:17:44 PM

Quote :

"Like a lot of the young protesters who have flocked to Occupy Wall Street, Joe [Therrien] had thought that hard work and education would bring, if not class mobility, at least a measure of security (indeed, a master’s degree can boost a New York City teacher’s salary by $10,000 or more). ... a graduate of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, [Joe] was working as a full-time drama teacher at a public elementary school in New York City. Frustrated...he set off to the University of Connecticut to get an MFA in his passion—puppetry. Three years and $35,000 in student loans later, he emerged with degree in hand..."

http://www.thenation.com/article/164348/audacity-occupy-wall-street

Capitalism. Has. Failed. Us.

[Edited on November 7, 2011 at 2:08 PM. Reason : ``]

11/7/2011 2:00:11 PM

youve got to be kidding me.

[Edited on November 7, 2011 at 2:04 PM. Reason : ^5 and what are you doing with your life, shrike?]

11/7/2011 2:03:42 PM

i wish the OWS'ers could be the CEOs for a day

they would surely turn down the bonuses and tell the shareholders to fuck off

then we could all finally be happy

11/7/2011 2:25:19 PM

Inside the Orwellian machinations in Occupy Wall Street
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/06/inside-the-orwellian-machinations-in-occupy-wall-street/

11/7/2011 5:23:19 PM

Orwellian is probably too strong a term. I think it's more that the protestors started off thinking that they could create some kind of egalitarian utopia only to come to the same realization like every revolutionary group before them: there are reasons why we've organized structured governments, why nations don't govern by consensus, why we have skilled bureaucrats to handle things like resource allocation, why we can't barter for everything and why law enforcement is a necessary evil even amongst the most well meaning communities. Now the dreamers are at a junction where they're growing up and are developing more formal governing systems, and this moment is yet another test for the movement.

11/8/2011 4:32:59 PM

Quote :

"there are reasons why we've organized structured governments"

We haven't organized anything. We are sentenced to abide by laws (and service debt) before we are even born. Social Contract theory is bullshit; every generation shifts responsibility onto the next. Why can't we be the generation that says "fuck off", refuses to pay the price for the mistakes of those that came before us, and then also refuses to saddle our children with problems we were too cowardly to address in a serious way?

Quote :

"why nations don't govern by consensus"

Consensus never exists on a national scale. The power brokers (a small, elite group that does not represent us) make decisions, and it is handed down as "consensus".

Quote :

" why we have skilled bureaucrats to handle things like resource allocation"

I desperately hope that you were kidding with this statement. "Skilled" and "bureaucrats" should not be in the same sentence. Bureaucrats do not know how to best allocate resources. People ("the market") know what they want to buy. The government exists to force people to buy things that they would not otherwise buy.

OWSers are not foolish for believing there is another way, they're only (sometimes) foolish for believing that the corporation-operated government is capable of being reformed. Reform in the traditional sense is no longer possible. Draconian cuts and major geopolitical changes are coming.

How well we adapt will depend on how well we can educate ourselves in the time we have. Will we concede to being slaves of the state, or will we attempt to rebuild a society based on peaceful, voluntary interaction? Can we finally reject the viability of central planning, having studied history and reflected on the lessons of the past century?

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 5:31 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2011 5:29:31 PM

^Can't believe I find myself agreeing with much of what you said. I disagree with your "abolish central planning" attitude, though, but I'm sure that comes as no surprise. Likewise, I don't see how you can have a "abolish social-contract" attitude, either. But whatever, that's just general progressive vs libertarian arguments that have been had a million times on this board.

Still though, I'll put my money on Israel vs Iran becoming an issue just long enough to distract our national attention from our own domestic issues.

anyway, this is relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHiicN0Kg10&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe1d32I_wUY

Shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention, but at least it's information that is finally coming to the surface. There's no line between corporate interests and government anymore. It's a boundary that has been eroding for at least 30 years now, in my opinion, and I think it is completely gone at this point.

It's pretty fucking sad when the US government has the same level of effectiveness as the NCAA infractions committee.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 6:36 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2011 6:29:16 PM

Quote :

"We haven't organized anything. We are sentenced to abide by laws (and service debt) before we are even born. Social Contract theory is bullshit; every generation shifts responsibility onto the next. Why can't we be the generation that says "fuck off", refuses to pay the price for the mistakes of those that came before us, and then also refuses to saddle our children with problems we were too cowardly to address in a serious way?"

I would argue that most of the previous generations have tried to leave things better, and only the latest tripped up a bit. Even with the last generation, I would say they meant well but as noted, lacked the moral courage to do so.

As for not paying the price for the mistakes of our forefathers, we certainly have the option not to, but no one seems to have an idea of how to do it without burning the entire system to the ground. We can dismantle the banks, reorganize retiree entitlements, etc., but that still leaves us with millions unprepared for retirement, sick people who still need to be paid for and masses of lost capital. Or if burning the entire system to the ground is the answer, what do you replace it with? Despite how bad things are now, few are desperate enough yet to reroll the dice; yes, things can become better, but they can also become a lot, lot worse.

Quote :

"Consensus never exists on a national scale."

The point being that OWS thought it could create a leaderless group built on consensus and quickly learned it doesn't work when you actually have to start administering something (like running a camp or handling finances). Never said nations were run by consensus.

Quote :

"I desperately hope that you were kidding with this statement. "Skilled" and "bureaucrats" should not be in the same sentence. Bureaucrats do not know how to best allocate resources. People ("the market") know what they want to buy. The government exists to force people to buy things that they would not otherwise buy."

Calm down: hell, you've seen me long enough on this board to know I'm the last advocate of centralized planning. Wrong choice of words; not talking about market forces or macro economic issues but administering resource within a group context, whether government or business. There is a real problem with OWS in that many have no idea how to handle money and resources beyond a personal scale. Reading various articles, it's clear that they don't really know how to manage all the money being donated to the movement and have no clear idea on how to prioritize, plan, budget or even distribute money.

I like OWS and many of the things they proposal, but there's also clearly a lot of naivety in how they started. I feel like I'm watching a group growing up, suddenly realizing that organizing and maintaining a large movement actually requires real administrative planning and skill. They tried to create some sort of utopian general assembly that governs the movement by consensus and are now realizing that it doesn't work when it comes to daily administration.

Agreed that we don't want to be slaves to the state, but that's different from saying we don't need any sort of organization or collective planning to deal with broader issues.

11/8/2011 6:44:48 PM

Quote :

"People ("the market") know what they want to buy. The government exists to force people to buy things that they would not otherwise buy.""

Umm... The government IS the people. The government isn't a separate entity from "the people." In a democracy, the government is supposed to be an extension of its citizenry.

It's corporations that are distinct from the people, that opposes the people.

If the gov. deviates from being a will of the people, it's a failure of the people to not yield their power, not a failure of government.

11/8/2011 9:19:13 PM

^ "Corporations are people, friend" - Willard Romney

11/8/2011 9:50:02 PM

Quote :

"Likewise, I don't see how you can have a "abolish social-contract" attitude, either."

That's pretty simple. I didn't sign shit. Don't tell me that I agreed to abide by all legislation and government decrees since 1776 just by virtue of the fact that I was born here.

Quote :

"I would argue that most of the previous generations have tried to leave things better, and only the latest tripped up a bit. Even with the last generation, I would say they meant well but as noted, lacked the moral courage to do so."

Tried...but didn't. Things have progressively gotten better, but improvements should be attributed to the market (again - people) that created value and exchanged it for other things of value. Sometimes, there were good intentions. In a lot of other cases, I believe the government has been influenced or directly operated by people that are, at their core, sociopaths.

Quote :

"As for not paying the price for the mistakes of our forefathers, we certainly have the option not to, but no one seems to have an idea of how to do it without burning the entire system to the ground. We can dismantle the banks, reorganize retiree entitlements, etc., but that still leaves us with millions unprepared for retirement, sick people who still need to be paid for and masses of lost capital. Or if burning the entire system to the ground is the answer, what do you replace it with? Despite how bad things are now, few are desperate enough yet to reroll the dice; yes, things can become better, but they can also become a lot, lot worse."

That's a good discussion to have, and you probably know what side I fall on. The longer we try to sustain the unsustainable, the further we get behind in the long run. I'd rather bite the bullet than have a couple of Japanese-esque lost decades.

Quote :

"I like OWS and many of the things they proposal, but there's also clearly a lot of naivety in how they started. I feel like I'm watching a group growing up, suddenly realizing that organizing and maintaining a large movement actually requires real administrative planning and skill. They tried to create some sort of utopian general assembly that governs the movement by consensus and are now realizing that it doesn't work when it comes to daily administration."

Yeah, I agree. I don't think that there was a set direction starting out, and like all "movements", eventually it is co-opted by dubious or incompetent individuals.

Quote :

"Agreed that we don't want to be slaves to the state, but that's different from saying we don't need any sort of organization or collective planning to deal with broader issues."

It is different, and I would never suggest that we should eliminate organization or planning. I just reject the necessity of there being a single, "central" authority that plans the whole economy.

Quote :

"Umm... The government IS the people. The government isn't a separate entity from "the people." In a democracy, the government is supposed to be an extension of its citizenry."

No...the government is made up of people. It's not the people. We're the people. You have no control over the government. You can vote, but it doesn't actually matter. Yes, in a democracy, the government is the people. This is not a democracy. This is not even a republic. It's an oligarchy, a thugocracy, a kleptocracy...whatever you want to call it. We are not represented in any meaningful way, though.

Quote :

"If the gov. deviates from being a will of the people, it's a failure of the people to not yield their power, not a failure of government."

Hmm. It is a failure of the people for electing shitty representatives, yes. And, when those shitty representatives take power, they are also failing. I think it could succinctly be put this way: our political system is full of fail.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 10:00 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2011 9:59:54 PM

^ Lysander Spooner was a nut. The Social contract is an abstraction, not a binding legal agreement you can sign. The true fact of the matter is that we live in meat space and as such laws must be enforced over entire geographic areas and not on a person by person basis.

If political legitimacy hinged on everyone signing social contracts, then it really wouldn't be a goal worth reaching. Think about it. would criminals sign the social contract? If not, what would that mean for their status under the law? Could they still be legitimatly punished for violating laws they never promised to follow? And what about public goods problems? Even if I were not a criminal I may wish to opt of our political arrangement to avoid paying taxes if I could still reap the benefits they provide (national defense for ex)

Saying you never signed a social contract is the worst argument in the world and has been for over 100 years

11/8/2011 10:37:07 PM