^^ yeah home defense...but i wouldn't say i "use" it

i mostly just wanna be able to throw it over my shoulder if i need to walk down the street a ways and shoot some zombies or something.

9/30/2009 12:23:17 AM

3-point is where its at, I would think especially in a home defense situation where you need to go hands on.

9/30/2009 12:24:51 AM

links plz

9/30/2009 10:31:30 PM

http://www.spectergear.com/specterstore/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=29

Mine does not have a release like the other version; I also have a shot shell carrier from specter as well...it velcro's on.

http://www.spectergear.com/specterstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1771&idcategory=0

[Edited on September 30, 2009 at 11:35 PM. Reason : ...]

9/30/2009 11:30:36 PM

Quote :

"anyone have any sling recommendations for a mossburg 500?"

most people who do it for a living have single point slings or just something to hang it on the shoulder with. If it is home defense, you don't even really need one.

10/1/2009 9:18:30 AM

^like who?

10/1/2009 1:15:25 PM

I do. I have a 3-point on my rifle and when I was carrying a shotty it had a single point sling, over the shoulder and held in place by a c-splint on the rack system.

10/1/2009 1:30:10 PM

^^ A lot of the SOF guys I've worked with or hang out with around here run single points. A lot of guys really don't like the idea of even being tied to their weapon at all, and don't even sling the weapon unless they need their hands for something else.


Chances are, in a home defense situation, you're just going to grab your gun and do what needs to be done. Attaching yourself to a sling just gives the other guy another way to control you prevents you from using the gun as an impact weapon.

10/1/2009 2:06:37 PM

Would you recommend the pardner protector or the 500?

10/3/2009 8:16:52 PM

A buddy of mine is getting ready to sell his S&W model 67 38 special, I was thinking about taking it off his hands. We are going shooting next week to see what I think since I have never fired one before. Any thoughts on this gun? It seems to get good reviews from what I have read online. Also any one know a reasonable price for a gun like htis used? He has no idea yet what he wants for it so just looking at a ball park number

10/5/2009 10:09:24 PM

^^^Weapons retention starts well before someone actually puts their hands on your weapon. I like the idea of the 3-pt because you can cycle to another weapons system with more ease.

[Edited on October 6, 2009 at 1:51 PM. Reason : ...]

10/6/2009 1:48:55 PM

A few of my trip to the Uwharrie shooting range:



Videos:
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/JDriver18t/?action=view¤t=MOV05001.flv
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/JDriver18t/?action=view¤t=MOV05004.flv
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/JDriver18t/?action=view¤t=MOV05006.flv

[Edited on October 6, 2009 at 7:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/6/2009 7:49:36 PM

Quote :

"I like the idea of the 3-pt because you can cycle to another weapons system with more ease."

That's on you, but you're going to have a hard time doing anything with ease if someone trying to kill you is that close to your face and has his hands on a solid object which is firmly attached to your body. Get a buddy and try this in a drill. If you can make it work, good on you.

Some, not all, but some, would advocate relinquishing control of the primary weapon and hopefully getting to the secondary device before they can put the first into operation.

Either way, you're in a world of hurt. Personally, being attached to a home defense weapon prevents me from using it as a bludgeoning object should that be a more appropriate use of the weapon.

10/6/2009 8:02:19 PM

video of me and some friends shooting. takes place in arizona and in allegheny county NC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn-glChkElY

[Edited on October 6, 2009 at 8:06 PM. Reason : link]

10/6/2009 8:06:08 PM

My friend is offering to sell me his S&W 642 airweight hammerless (in .38), and I'm thinking of doing it




He is selling it with a pocket holster, 2 quick loaders, an extra grip (the original- he put a hogue grip on there), and about 80 rd's of ammo (half range, half personal defense)... he is asking 400 for it- from what I can tell, that is a good deal- am I right?

[Edited on October 7, 2009 at 2:47 PM. Reason : grip]

10/7/2009 2:43:19 PM

from my short research, that is a decent price for an airweight with the ammo and extras.

10/7/2009 3:03:52 PM

see- that's the thing... i've seen prices range from 380-750 for new ones, and I don't know what to think (the list price is somewhere around 600-700 new)

I've always wanted a revolver, but I was waiting until I could find a 357 (so I could fire the 38 as well)... but I do like this gun (i've fired off 5 rounds from it and it feels as good as any revolver I've ever fired)

10/7/2009 3:09:38 PM

Quote :

"Any thoughts on this gun? It seems to get good reviews from what I have read online. Also any one know a reasonable price for a gun like htis used? He has no idea yet what he wants for it so just looking at a ball park number"

The Model 67 should be a great gun.
If I remember right it's basically a Model 10 in stainless with adjustable sights.
What do you want it for? Range shooting, self defense, etc...

You can always check Bud's Guns for prices. Their lowest price is usually around what a dealer will charge you.
I'd say that gun is probably about $500-550 new. If it's in excellent shape I'd offer $400 max.

Make sure you know what you're looking for in a used revolver. Here's a good site:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430

Quote :

"He is selling it with a pocket holster, 2 quick loaders, an extra grip (the original- he put a hogue grip on there), and about 80 rd's of ammo (half range, half personal defense)... he is asking 400 for it- from what I can tell, that is a good deal- am I right?"

New it should cost about $460.

Used, $350 unless it's like new.
Pocket holster in good condition ~$15
Speed loaders ~$15
Extra grip ~no value
40 rnds target ammo ~$10
40 rnds self defense ammo ~$20-40 depending on what exactly it is
Total = $410 on the low side with a good condition gun.

Quote :

"I've always wanted a revolver, but I was waiting until I could find a 357 (so I could fire the 38 as well)... but I do like this gun (i've fired off 5 rounds from it and it feels as good as any revolver I've ever fired)"

Were you looking for a 357 in something similar to the 642?
If so you shouldn't even bother. Recoil is ferocious. A scandium 357's recoil energy is on the same level as my SRH in 480 Ruger, only it hits you a hell of a lot faster rather than a hard push. Faster hurts.

The only thing a lightweight 357 is good for is a few laughs...which isn't a bad thing

[Edited on October 7, 2009 at 5:08 PM. Reason : Always check your junk on a used revolver. Timing, lockup, endshake, gas cutting, erosion...]

10/7/2009 4:58:53 PM

Quote :

"Timing, lockup, endshake, gas cutting, erosion"

more info?

10/7/2009 7:42:58 PM

See the link I posted.

Timing is how well the chambers line up with the barrel.
Lockup is how tightly the cylinder is locked in place in its rotational direction.
Endshake is how much play forwards and backwards the cylinder has.

Those three things are assessed at "full lockup". With an unloaded gun, pull the trigger all the way back and hold the trigger that way.

-To check the timing, shine a light between the rear of the cylinder and breech face. Look down the bore to see if the chamber is in line with the bore. Do that for all chambers.

-To check the lockup, at full lockup try and rotate the cylinder (gently, don't He-man it). The cylinder will probably rotate a tiny bit and that's ok. If it rotates it should go back to the same position when you let go of the cylinder. It should not rotate any significant amount in the direction that the cylinder roates when it's operated. In other words the cylinder at full lockup should not rotate in the direction that the bolt recesses are pointing. Check that for all chambers.

-To check the endshake, at full lockup grab the cylinder and try to move it towards and away from the barrel. It shouldn't move. Also take the opportunity to look at the barrel/cylinder gap. It should be about 0.004-0.008". If you can stick a credit card between the barrel and cylinder then it's way too big a gap. Check endshake and gap for all chambers.

Gas cutting is what happens when hot gases exit the barrel/cylinder gap and hit the topstrap (the part of the frame above the cylinder). Look at the topstrap at the barrel cylinder gap. Gas cutting looks like you took a cutoff wheel on a dremel and made a small cut. Gas cutting is bad. It makes the frame weak.

Forcing cone erosion is erosion caused by excess gases escaping the barrel/cylinder gap. It happens at the interior edge of the forcing cone (the inside edge of the rear of the barrel). That inside edge should be sharp (except on S&W 460s). If it is rounded off then it is eroding and accuracy and long term durability will be compromised. Erosion usually goes hand and hand with gas cutting. Both can be signs of too big a barrel/cylinder gap.
Erosion and gas cutting may also be caused by shooting a shit ton of high pressure/low bullet weight loads or a bigger shit ton of normal loads. Basically it gives you an idea of how used the gun is.

10/8/2009 2:08:37 AM

where's a good place to get a flashlight holster? I don't need fancy/expensive (not using for a flashlight, but something similarly shaped). something cheap, nylon, holds about 6" long by 1" in diameter with a belt loop. would prefer local so I can get it today

walmart?

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2009 1:43:52 PM

the law supply store over by where Reds used to be- i can't remember the name, but I'll look for it

might be eagle one... whatever it is, I know they had it cause Restricted took me there before a gun show one time


also, lawmens might have it (over off of tryon)

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 3:36 PM. Reason : e]

10/8/2009 3:34:31 PM

cary walmart none
PDHSC none
Lawman's bastards close at 5
Eagle One

10/8/2009 6:50:46 PM

Lowe's
Home Depot

figured they'd have a tool pouch the size I need... nope. I've been looking online, but the problem with that is many websites don't list the material & size... they just have general descriptions. I want details

10/8/2009 8:16:19 PM

what size flashlight? lowes has mini maglights that come with nylon holsters for cheap.

10/8/2009 8:19:06 PM

I didn't see any there. 6" long x 1" diameter

10/8/2009 8:32:09 PM

1M frames per second:

10/8/2009 9:21:11 PM

Eagle One has the stuff cops use... I don't know if that will work for what you want, but they do have stuff that will hold flashlight shaped things

10/8/2009 9:58:25 PM

^^The hollowpoint expansions @ around 5:00 are amazing to watch.

10/9/2009 9:50:10 AM

Comptac sells one for about $25 for 1'' dia flashlights. You can get them at Gunner's Alley in Cary.

10/9/2009 7:07:21 PM

try REI.

10/9/2009 7:28:54 PM

shot a canned .308 this afternoon . . .

10/11/2009 8:11:59 PM

Anyone know the process for getting/registering a short barreled rifle? Fill out the form 4 from the ATF and get that filled out but do you need to do that once for your present residence or would you need to do it again also if you moved?

10/11/2009 9:29:20 PM

what county are you registered in? That determines the steps for getting one.

Once you have it, you can move anywhere in the state with no problems.

[Edited on October 11, 2009 at 10:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2009 10:09:34 PM

If I can only go to one, which is better: the Dixie Gun & Knife show or the C&E Gun show? I'd like to try out different new/relatively new handguns and shotguns to see which one(s) feel the best.

[Edited on October 12, 2009 at 8:47 AM. Reason : extra info]

10/12/2009 8:43:49 AM

Oops, double post somehow.

[Edited on October 12, 2009 at 8:45 AM. Reason : ...]

10/12/2009 8:45:07 AM

^^Dixie.

^^^^To make one (even out of an existing gun), you need a Form 1. If your sheriff will sign it, great, but probably not. You'll likely have to form a trust and have the trust make it (Federal law lets you get around the many dickhead sheriffs in NC by using a trust), but that's assclown AG Cooper for you. Once you get your tax stamp back from ATF, you have to engrave the receiver with your name (or trust) and city/state - you just "manufactured" it there.

that's the overview - if you're interested in details, I can go further.

10/12/2009 8:57:06 AM

Thanks for the replies. I'm in Wake County now and I'm probably going to be moving out of state next year to Tallahassee, Florida. Would it be better to try to get one now (let's assume the trust route) and would I have to do anything next year when I moved?

[Edited on October 12, 2009 at 9:15 AM. Reason : Wake]

10/12/2009 9:13:46 AM

You'll have to form a trust, and have the trust own it. Harrison is one of the aforementioned dickheads.

If/when you move, you simply file a form with the ATF to tell them that the NFA item is being stored at a new location.

10/12/2009 1:04:38 PM

SCCC meeting tonight at I Love NY Pizza at 7:30.




OC Dinner at CICIs in Cary on Thursday night at 7:00.
They were changed from saturdays to help attendance and fit people's schedules.

10/13/2009 12:15:40 PM

haha always on tuesday... one of these days I will make it out to one of these things, schedule permiting


^if I don't have to meet up with some folks coming to town for "family" dinner on thursday night, I will try to make it out there

[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason : s]

10/13/2009 12:29:27 PM

I think after this week the meeting day will change to try for more attendance. I have gotten a couple of messages from people that can't make it on tuesdays.



Bring them, it is a family dinner location.

10/13/2009 1:08:29 PM

Is the SCCC meeting OC?

10/13/2009 4:12:32 PM

^yeh, OC, CC, nC. just don't park on/walk through campus

10/13/2009 4:17:09 PM

Fenderfreak and I were detained this evening for OC and GATTTOP before the SCCC meeting:

We had our biweekly SCCC meeting tonight at I Love NY Pizza on Hillsborough street, which is directly across from campus.

This all happened too fast for me to turn on my recording device, and I was unable to start it during the process. This is the gist of what happened.

I ordered my food, and realized that I had left my notebook in the car. I walked outside to go back to my car, just as two RPD were about to enter the establishment two doors down. I gave them a nod with a smile, as is customary for me when someone looks at me. One of them saw my(Me) firearm and approached me (O1), with "keep your hands up and where I can see them", and the other officer (O2) quickly followed.

O1: Keep your hands up. Keep them where I can see them. Do you have a badge to go with that gun?
Me: No
O1: federal credentials?
Me: NO
O1: Turn and place your hands on the wall.
O1: What do you think you are doing carrying a gun on H' street?
Me: Open carrying, which is legal in NC
O1: What are you thinking?
Me: Why am I being stopped?
O2: Have you heard of GATTTOP?
Me: Sir, I do not meet the qualifications for that charge.
Me: (to O1, as he is obviously in charge) Am I being detained?
O1: Yes, for GATTTOP
O1: (approaches me) Is your gun loaded?
Me: yes
O1: Is there one in the chamber?
Me: yes
O1: (removes firearm, takes it to the side and proceeds to drop mag and rack slide)
O2: Do you have any other weapons or anything we should know about on you?
Me: I have a knife clipped to my pocket.
--While O2 does the stuff below, I'm watching O1. He is trying to put the round from the chamber back in the mag, but can't. I tell him it is a full mag, but the holes don't quite line up with the rounds.--
O2: (removes knife, terry pat) Do you have any ID?
Me: yes, it's in my wallet
O1: You can get it out and give it to me.
--at this point I'm nervous and slightly concerned, but I feel I'm doing OK.--
Me: Under NC law and the NC supreme court I am doing nothing illegal. Can we go next door an you pull out a witness for this event?
O2: NO
Me: Can I start me recording device, so I have an account of this?
O2: No, you are being detained for GATTTOP
Me: Can I get a witness for this event?
O2: No, for all I know you have another gun in there, and you will get it and start blasting away.
Me: I just asked if I could have a witness.
O2: I just answered your question.
O1: (goes to run my ID, and call his Sergeant), he isn't sure how to proceed.
--At this point, I see SCCC members arriving for the meeting, and seeing me held up, were approaching, they kept a distance of 8' or so for the most part--
Me: Those are people in the group that I'm with. Just to warn you ahead of time, they may carrying as well.
O2: (seeing one of the people(FF) OCing) Get your hands up and place them against the wall.
FF: ~I am required to tell you that I am CCing as well. Am I being detained?
O2: Yes, where are the other weapons
FF: what for? There is a gun in the backpack.
O2: GATTTOP, Is your gun loaded? Is there one in the chamber? (starts pulling on the gun)
Me: That is a Serpa holster, you need to depress the button to release it.
O2: (takes two tries to find the button and release the gun. Then proceeds to try and unload it, but fumbles with that for about 20 seconds till he figures it out) Where is the other firearm? (gets it out of backpack) Is there anything else I need to know about, any other weapons?
FF: No
Me: (to FF) Don't forget your pocket knife.
FF: There is a knife clipped in my pocket.
O2: (Removes knife and does a quick pat, very minimal) Do you have IDs, and a CC permit for this gun? (talking to FF and the person that was with him, who wasn't carrying.)
At this point we are relaxed a little, strength in numbers and all. There are 3 witnesses watching us now. FF and I are on opposite sides of a door into an establishment. Families are entering and exiting during this ordeal.
Me: (to O1)Im am the Director of NC for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, and I am fully aware of the laws. (something led to this comment, but I don't remember what)
O1: repeats this to his sergeant. Tells the Sg that he wants to verify what laws are being broken. Asks for Sg to text him any statute numbers. He asks me again what my title is. Talks to his Sg more, and says that I'm not bothering anyone, and he just wants to make sure I'm legal. O1 says he will get my info and they can charge me with something later if needed. This is where I stopped paying attention, and dealt with O2 again.
Me: I give a grin and chuckle to FF for the " and charge him with something later" comment.
O2: Are any of you armed? (to our witnesses. They reply no)(He goes to run the previously mentioned IDs "to make sure they aren't felons")
Me: We have been having these meetings for almost a year, and have never had a problem. We have even had the Campus police here, and they don't have a problem with it either. We aren't on campus.
--We stand there for a few minutes while O1 is on the phone--
O1: Alright, it looks like you are not doing anything illegal. I have been doing this for 10 years and never seen anyone carry like that. You can understand why we need to check. You are so close to a school, and this isn't normal. (some more comments to us)
Me: We carry like this all the time. It is legal and we dont ever have problems with it. You are the first.
O1: I actually support what you are doing. I spent the last year in Iraq supporting your right to do this, and have only been back for three months. Like I said, I have never seen anyone carry like this, and I didn't know it was allowed. Iraq is very different than here. I really do like that you are carrying this way.
O2: I support your right to do this as well
Me: So, am I still being detained, even though you still have my gun.
O1: No, your not being detained. Thanks for being so patient and understanding. (hands me my gun back)
Me: (I slide the gun back into my serpa)
O1: (hands me my FULL mag)
Me: (I slide the mag into the gun, drop the slide (while holstered), pull the mag, insert my top round, and reinsert my mag.)
O2: (gives back FFs guns and he does the same as I)
O1: I now feel like and Idiot for not knowing that this was legal. I had not idea.
--We talk for a short bit about Kerner and JL and how they can't stop someone for OC only. We shake hands, say have a good evening, and then procede inside for our meeting--

Overall, it went well, even though it shouldn't have happened at all. My nerves were a little jumpy, and I had to 'calm down' but it wasn't a bad incident. He said I could call his sergeant if I had any comments or concerns. Of course, as soon as I got inside, I forgot the officers name. I still feel stupid for this.
The detainment and subsequent interaction took about 20 minutes. When I finally got back inside, the lady I ordered from gave me a very confused look as she handed me my now cold pizza.

FF may come on and comment and correct my story.




I have contacted the police department, and the Sergeant will be returning my call tomorrow.


[Edited on October 13, 2009 at 11:16 PM. Reason : more]

10/13/2009 10:48:45 PM

wow, that is weird as hell.

sounds like you did a good job keeping cool.

you should definitely follow up with Sgt and any other parts of RPD management relevant to make sure their officers don't make such noob mistakes.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason : asdf]

10/14/2009 12:04:01 AM

The Sergeant just returned my call.

There were a couple of factors that led to our stop:
1. OC, though accnolwedged not illegal
2. The restraunt next door was robbed recently
3. The proximity to NCSU (federal law in question)

The RAS for the Terry (justification pulled from their behind IMO) was proximity to NCSU, even though we were detained for GATTTOP.

He has spoken with the officers, and they have been corrected in their miss-information.
He agreed to address both GATTTOP and OC in their next meeting.

He asked that we call (a number that he gave me) before we have our meetings, so that the officers assigned to the patrol of the area know and can respond accordingly, if needed.

His call had an apologetic tone, though there was no actual apology. He said that under the circumstances, they felt they had cause for detainment. They now know, and will be reminded again, that OC is legal, GATTTOP requires much more than just carrying a firearm, and that Hillsborough is ok to carry on. He did give me his name and number to contact him if there were any other issues that I felt needed to be addressed.

[Edited on October 14, 2009 at 12:11 AM. Reason : .]

10/14/2009 12:10:51 AM

that is nice for him to call you back promptly. but, seems ridiculous that he suggest you call in advance next time you plan on following the law. that's like saying, tomorrow i'm going to drive to work and not break the speed limit or any other traffic laws, but i should let them know just in case they are confused about why i'm driving on the roads.

10/14/2009 12:14:18 AM

I agree, and probably won't call.
Now that the issue has been addresses, and will be readdressed, then it shouldn't ever be a problem again.

10/14/2009 12:18:33 AM

Just from your side of the story it sounds like a legit investigative detention. While OC is perfectly legally except where prohibited by state law, and city/county ordinances, it isn't something you see everyday.

10/14/2009 12:21:18 AM