sidney lowe may suck but there's no way people can be talking about firing him while lee fowler is still the AD. if any of you trust him to find a qualified candidate then you're nuts.

first things first...fire lee fowler.

1/13/2009 11:36:11 PM

makes sense

1/13/2009 11:46:36 PM

Why is anyone surprised? I mean honestly.

The dude's combined head coaching win record is what, like 30 games?

But his teams were bad!!!!!111111

Yes, because there's precedent for a failed NBA coach to jump into ACC basketball and do acceptably well.

Honestly though, its not Sidney's fault. And no we shouldn't fire anyone before firing Lee Fowler, if only because a majority of our teams are struggling.

1/13/2009 11:53:52 PM

Quote :

"first things first...fire lee fowler."

Quote :

"Lowe must be fired. He is a nice guy and an alumnus, but he cannot coach college basketball. I really wish that he would start looking for another NBA job to save everyone heartache."

I am glad some people are starting to see what is really going on here. I love Sidney and what he's done for this school, but things are not going to get better. I have said this since almost the beginning. I hate I was right about his ability to coach.

1/13/2009 11:54:51 PM

Quote :

"-Sid's recruits shot an outstanding 13-18, and only turned the ball over 5 times. -The players Sid inherited shot 10-35 and had the other 11 turnovers. "

interesting

http://wolfpackhoops.blogspot.com/2009/01/wolfpack-collapse-lose-to-fsu-78-64.html

1/14/2009 12:15:30 AM

Sorry, forgot to give the source link.

1/14/2009 12:22:43 AM

Which way do they count Horner/Ferguson because they kill one side of that.

1/14/2009 12:23:02 AM

those count as herb's guys

it looks like he included javi's TOs to the "inherited" numbers though, now that i'm looking at the box score. 2 turnovers and he only played 3 minutes!

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 12:51 AM. Reason : facts]

1/14/2009 12:30:37 AM

I saw Lee Fowler walk by going somewhere shortly before the game was over, he looked downright sick

I wonder if he's starting to feel more heat on his seat as the bad seasons roll on and on

1/14/2009 12:48:34 AM

Quote :
"-Sid's recruits shot an outstanding 13-18, and only turned the ball over 5 times.

-The players Sid inherited shot 10-35 and had the other 11 turnovers. "


interesting

http://wolfpackhoops.blogspot.com/2009/01/wolfpack-collapse-lose-to-fsu-78-64.html

1/14/2009 1:03:00 AM

It's one game and relatively meaningless.

Against Clemson Sid's players were 5-19 with 6 turnovers and 2 assists.

1/14/2009 2:13:36 AM

I left the bar when it was 3 minutes to go I believe and Costner was on the bench. The ridiculous timing of substitutions Lowe makes blows my mine. In my opinion, aside from Dave Leitao and Paul Hewitt, Lowe is the worst coach in the ACC.

1/14/2009 5:59:23 AM

Quote :

"In my opinion, aside from Dave Leitao and Paul Hewitt, Lowe is the worst coach in the ACC."

racist.

btw i said first we need to get rid of fowler before we even consider firing sid, but i wasn't suggesting getting rid of sid. i still think we will be pretty good next season. i don't think sid is a great coach now, but i think he can recruit well enough to win us championships- see royboy.

1/14/2009 6:59:41 AM

lowe has proven to me that the ACC championship run in 07 was an absolute fluke.

how he continues to try and run an nba style, do whatever the hell you want offense, with virtually ZERO talent continues to baffle me. this program is headed further downhill. we'll see our share of 1 and done's though, but probably nothing more.

1/14/2009 7:57:23 AM

this got me excited for a second, http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3829521 then i was like

1/14/2009 7:59:18 AM

anyone can recruit decent players if they coach for unc! lol

1/14/2009 8:25:25 AM

i know it's been said before, but you have to give lowe AT LEAST 1 or 2 more years. Next year is his first real FULL recruiting class, and it's supposed to be a good one. Let's see how they play.

If Wood and Brown are close to as good as they are hyped, then we will finally have some people on the team who are consistent shooters, and if Mays continues to improve we might have a point guard. I agree lowe has made some weird substitutions this year, and his offense hasn't been good, it looks like the offense he is trying to run isn't fit for our current core of players. They aren't capable of running his offense.

I'll give him another 2 years, if there's no improvement then, and its all his guys, then he has no excuses. but i'm not ready to just run him off yet.

i do understand the opinions of the other side of the fence though from the people who do want him gone though, i just think we need to give him some time

1/14/2009 8:26:52 AM

Quote :

"I saw Lee Fowler walk by going somewhere shortly before the game was over, he looked downright sick I wonder if he's starting to feel more heat on his seat as the bad seasons roll on and on"

He's probably doing fine considering he won an award last year for outstanding something-or-other. Ineptitude from the top down.

I've always felt like the silver lining to these lousy, lousy seasons that stretch on for years was that at least the poor performance would be a motivation for change. It doesn't appear to be the case. I can only assume that NCSU is cursed, but instead of kicking a guy with a goat out of the stadium one of our alumni must have been the engineer behind the Challenger disaster.

1/14/2009 8:39:10 AM

I just don't get all the "you have to give him 2 more years" talk. Lowe isn't the first coach to walk into a program without "his guys". I can think of several coaches hired in 04, 05, and 06 that have done tremendous things for their programs without "their guys".

1/14/2009 8:47:55 AM

Quote :

"They aren't capable of running his offense. "

Which is why, if he were a good coach, he'd be running an offense they were capable of running.

But thank god we have the vaunted 79-228 "Sidney Lowe Offense" to look forward to.

1/14/2009 8:52:49 AM

i don't think it's being debated that good coaches can't win without "their guys," but just that no one could win "these guys." because imo and the opinion of many others, these guys suck.

case in point- last night. sid's weird substitution patterns aside, putting fells, mccauley, and costner back into the game should have given us great senior leadership and continued to build the momentum. instead, "these guys" choked the lead away with stuuupid decisions thoughout the last 5 minutes.

plus "these guys" currently do not include a point guard or any guard capable of shooting/handling the basketball period.

1/14/2009 8:52:50 AM

What happened to all the Fells is God talk last year? I called him out in a thread and was flamed like crazy.

1/14/2009 8:55:36 AM

I'm waiting for the day all the assholes who come in here only to post "still credible" realize he's not credible anymore

1/14/2009 9:04:21 AM

Quote :

"but things are not going to get better. I have said this since almost the beginning. I hate I was right about his ability to coach."

yes they will. we have no experienced players that seem to care. our bench is very underdeveloped and if anyone...ANYONE thought we were going to be good this year then you are retarded.

why do you guys think Thomas, Williams, Mays and Smith are getting minutes?

Horner does blow my mind. i have no idea why he got so many minutes last night. esp. playing him over BC. There must be something going on b/w Lowe and BC.

to Lowe's credit...at least he pulled Fergs and Javi after playing them sparingly. Anyone know why Degand never saw the floor again?

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM. Reason : sdf]

1/14/2009 9:04:39 AM

Quote :

"Anyone know why Degand never saw the floor again?"

b/c he's not good?

1/14/2009 9:16:04 AM

Quote :

"yes they will. we have no experienced players that seem to care."

I'd agree partly with this. I don't know that our seniors don't care, but they can't all seem to get up for a game at the same time. If Costner is on, McCaulley is invisible. Fells is having a great game and Costner is loafing. If Lowe could somehow get those three guys on the same page and have good games at the same time, I'm convinced we would be at least middle of the ACC pack and probably be a borderline tourney team. The wild inconsistency of our supposedly most experienced players is killing the team. And I don't mean that I think all of our suckiness is blamed entirely on Herb recruits as some have suggested. Just that we could be much better than we are despite not having quality guards if we could get consistent play from our Seniors.

Quote :

"why do you guys think Thomas, Williams, Mays and Smith are getting minutes? "

That's the thing, aside from Mays they haven't really gotten any consistent significant minutes. I wouldn't be against risking tanking the rest of the season to get those guys some experience for next season. It's not like we have a prayer of making the tournament this year.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 9:33 AM. Reason : d]

1/14/2009 9:24:28 AM

has anyone read any of the post game quotes or articles

sounds like we are going to see crazy sub patterns and line ups the rest of the year.

sid did say that he sat Degand b/c he was playing aggressive enough

1/14/2009 10:00:33 AM

fwiw, just a few observations from the game last night [and maybe a couple others]:

-Mays looks like he has alot of potential. My understanding was the initial idea was for him to play the 2, but he looks good playing the point. Last night was his worst game in the last few that i saw him get pt, and we saw worse every game last year.

-Fells should never dribble the ball. Ever.

-Thomas looks like he has a lot of potential. Reminds me a little of Cam Bennerman. Looked absolutely lost on D.

-Smith and Williams also have great potential. I could see those two both averaging 20ish a game if we get decent point guard play.

-Ben was dominated last night. He pulled down offensive rebounds, but otherwise just wasn't his night.

-Benching Degand was a great move. His play time in the first half was horrible, and he consistently makes bad decisions that don't only result in a turnover, but usually a fast break for the other team.

-I like Lowe. I want to like Lowe. He is making it hard now.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason : spelling]

1/14/2009 10:19:59 AM

Quote :

"-I like Lowe. I want to like Lowe. He is making it hard now. "

yep.

1/14/2009 10:20:54 AM

still motherfucking credible.


you guys can hope he gets fired all you want, but he isn't going anywhere.

1/14/2009 10:31:11 AM

still credible

1/14/2009 10:35:26 AM

The whole problem with rationalizing that we suck because some players aren't on board with Lowe or that they just don't care is a direct result of a complete lack of leadership, motivation, and training from the man in charge.

Sidney Lowe is not a leader. We gave him three years. That's plenty generous.

How many UNC fans do you think were crying about Doherty not being given enough time in three years? Maybe 2 fans, neither of which have ever seen UNC's campus. This culture of losing at NCSU is sickening.

1/14/2009 10:37:55 AM

^^, ^^^

aaaand there they are


what's it going to take?

1/14/2009 10:42:12 AM

Quote :

"-Smith and Williams also have great potential. I could see those two both averaging 20ish a game if we get decent point guard play."

wut?

When was the last time we had two guys get even close to averaging 20 a game on the same team??

1/14/2009 10:45:23 AM

Quote :

"How many UNC fans do you think were crying about Doherty not being given enough time in three years?"

WE'RE NOT FUCKING UNC. IF YOU THINK SIDNEY IS GETTING THE RECRUITING POWER AND CALIBER OF PLAYERS THAT UNC CAN BRING IN AND IS STILL UNDERPERFORMING LIKE DOHERTY THEY YOU'RE CRAZY

If you gave old Roy Boy our team to coach you better believe that they'd be struggling just the same

1/14/2009 10:47:38 AM

as i've stated before, who would take this job when the last coach was fired after three years?

sidney lowe was a last resort when the previous coach had ten years and left on his own.

lee fowler needs to be on the phone w/ sean miller asap, just to feel him out.

1/14/2009 10:47:56 AM

I really wanted to come into this season with a "wait and see" approach, but it's just getting to be unbearable. We are awful and Lowe is a big reason why. 11 game ACC losing streak, no quality wins, several blown leads, and no sign of improvement. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 4-12 would be optimistic at this point.

Also, for those of you who still think Lowe is worth a damn, would you still feel that way had we not won that home game vs. UNC 2 years or made that run in the ACC tournament? We're a lot like West Virginia's football program, the way they made Bill Stewart the permanent HC because of one win in a bowl game. Lowe, like Stewart, is in way over his head.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 11:04 AM. Reason : :]

1/14/2009 10:49:39 AM

Quote :

"WE'RE NOT FUCKING UNC. IF YOU THINK SIDNEY IS GETTING THE RECRUITING POWER AND CALIBER OF PLAYERS THAT UNC CAN BRING IN AND IS STILL UNDERPERFORMING LIKE DOHERTY THEY YOU'RE CRAZY "

You're right, it's OK that Sidney is running substitution patterns that are worse than a pay league down at the YMCA. /sarcasm

You're arguing that we can't get good players at NCSU. More of that acceptance of being a loser. Good job. Hopefully Wall reads this so he knows that the players at UNC will always be better than him if he comes to State.

1/14/2009 11:04:20 AM

don't be too quick to run him off. im not gonna post "still credible" and leave the thread, but i still defend my position that he needs 1 or 2 more years. if he isn't showing enough improvement in 1 or 2 years, then fine, get rid of him. But he doesn't have a team of all his own guys yet, and the way these guys play, they just don't seem to be that good. I'm not saying a better coach couldn't win more games with this group, but i'd be willing to bet NO COACH could make this team a tournament contender.

I might be wrong, and if I am, time will tell. But i feel like in another year or 2 tops he can turn this team around with his own players.


I guess I just don't understand how some people can want to run him off already thinking a new coach can make this core of guys win. From what i see watching the games, these guys can't get it done.

1/14/2009 11:06:29 AM

Quote :

"More of that acceptance of being a loser."

Heck, when it comes to NCSU basketball I did that more than a decade ago. Les Robinson credibility watch

1/14/2009 11:15:23 AM

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 11:19 AM. Reason : these guys wouldn't choke against FSU, that's for fucking sure]

1/14/2009 11:15:53 AM

Quote :

"But he doesn't have a team of all his own guys yet, and the way these guys play, they just don't seem to be that good. "

So, what you are saying is, he needs to be able to land a guard that he won't have to coach, because it is obvious he can't coach below average ACC guards into average ACC guards?

It is becoming clearer by the game that Engin Atsur was the coach of Sids magical run his first year. He ran the show, had BC and BM doing what they were supposed to, and the system worked. Since then, we have no real backcourt which is an absolute need to do anything in the ACC. Degand is most likely not ever going to be the same because of his knee, Javi hasn't been developed and may never, and Mays should be better by now and isn't. If Sid hasn't been able to do anything reasonable at the guard position in 3 tries, do you really think ANY player he gets is going to develop and grow?

We took a step back last year, and even though it looked like we took a small one forward to start this year, that too looks like a fading memory. You give coaches time when the trend at least seems to be improving. I don't see that trend. This year will be a waste, and if next year we're back here having this same discussion again, he has to go. You have to get him the hell out.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 11:20:48 AM

Quote :

"and Mays should be better by now and isn't."

....what?

1/14/2009 11:26:42 AM

Quote :

" but i'd be willing to bet NO COACH could make this team a tournament contender"

False. What good coaches do when they first come into a program is form an offensive system that compliments the current players abilities. Then, recruit players that will fit well in the coaches system that he will begin to institute after a few years. The fact that Sidney is still trying to play a pro-style offense when we have no legit shooters or any point guard to speak of (although mays is improving, I will give him that) is just ridiculous. Also, the majority of our losses come because our team has no heart or drive to perform late in the game... and that reflects poor coaching.

You're telling me that if we had Coach K that we wouldn't make the tournament? Even though I hate Coach K, you have to respect his ability to get the most out of his players almost every game.

1/14/2009 11:29:55 AM

yeah, I'm fucking saying that Coach K couldn't do shit with this team

John Wooden couldn't do shit with this team

because, of course, Coach K started winning right out of the box, right?

You're telling me that if we had Coach K, we'd MAKE THE FUCKING NCAAs? what team have you been watching?

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 11:33 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 11:32:38 AM

^^^^i see your point, and you're entitled to that opinion, it's not clear whether I'm right, or you're right yet. I just feel like he needs another year or two to get all of his own players. I'm not sure any coach could turn our PG'S into legit Pg's in the acc. Mays started to show something last night, so we'll see what happens with that. I definitely agree that Lowe could be doing a better job with these guys, But I don't think these guys can get us where we want to be.

I mean it's hard to argue because no one knows 100 percent what goes on behind closed doors, and no one knows for sure what the players are capable of.

If he doesn't show any improvement in 2 years, I will agree that he needs to go, because by then he would have had plenty of time. I just don't feel like the time is now. I could be wrong, so I don't really want to argue about it. That's just my belief on the issue.


I also don't buy in to the theory that John Wall will be the key to the recruiting class. We have a solid class even without Wall, and we have Ryan Harrow and CJ Leslie coming in 2010 who are supposed to be good. I think Harrow will be a solid PG. I think we just need to give lowe until after that season AT LEAST to try and turn this thing around.



^^i also see your point, and no one can say for sure. i honestly DON'T think coach K could make our team win any championships. I won't say for certain whether or not he could put us in the tournament this year, but i'm not sure about that either...

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 11:35:32 AM

You know

I really wonder which magical general manager picks our rosters then.

If it isn't Sidney.

1/14/2009 11:44:20 AM

i cant fault sid just yet.

this year, we've barely had anyone play consistently. just look at last night where the starters didn't do shit. a coach is supposed to be able to put his experienced starters in at crunch time to win a game. unfortunately, they looked more like what our second string usually does. although it's not helping us to win games, i'm starting to like lowe's 10 man rotation because it's getting some people valuable experience and, as of now, we don't have a single player on the team that we can't not afford to have off the floor for an extended amount of time. i say, play them all until people decide to step up.

1/14/2009 11:44:20 AM

Quote :

" if he isn't showing enough improvement in 1 or 2 years, then fine, get rid of him. But he doesn't have a team of all his own guys yet, and the way these guys play, they just don't seem to be that good."

Maybe you haven't noticed, but as we get more and more of Sidney's players, we seem to be getting worse and worse.

1/14/2009 11:46:32 AM

^ possibly true

but last time the ones that laid an egg were costner, mccauley, and fells.

fells has been such a 4 year disappointment, imo.

point is still valid however

1/14/2009 11:48:44 AM