Quote :

"Yes, have you? Better question, have you ever truly hated a human being and wanted something from him? Be it his death or information, when you can say yes to that then I’ll throw you a bone on the topic. Do not mistake a disciplined and well trained Legion for moral purity. The U.S. military is truly the finest conventional military on earth, much like Rome; however, even the unconventional Gaul’s got the drop on Caesar. It was Rome's absolute willingness and faith in the Legion that permitted its success."

what the fuck are you talking about? this is about goddamn human rights. ASK ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN TORTURED AND SEE HOW USEFUL IT WAS. you're fucking delude.

Quote :

"With that in mind, rethink the absolute adherence to conventions written with wars 100yrs old in mind. "

Quote :

"Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva from 21 April to 12 August, 1949 entry into force 21 October 1950"

no, it was in relation to WWII, where we've had every single type of modern warfare including partisan, resistance, and guerilla warfare which are completely applicable to today's war in Iraq.

nothing has changed in 55 years with how wars are waged, essentially.

10/24/2005 5:29:14 PM

Quote :

"ASK ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN TORTURED AND SEE HOW USEFUL IT WAS. you're fucking delude."

Don't have too, because the information has saved my life. Drop the emotion and look at it objectively. There are/should be acceptable forms of torture. It is the only way to fight this kind of war.

Quote :

"it was in relation to WWII, where we've had every single type of modern warfare including partisan, resistance, and guerilla warfare which are completely applicable to today's war in Iraq. nothing has changed in 55 years with how wars are waged, essentially. "

Hate to tell you this, but you’re extremely wrong. Warfare is in a state of constant change. So far, depending on the scholars, you will see either 3 to 4 different generations of warfare. WWII was actually 2nd generation warfare. It was still based on WWI precepts, only with a few bright and shining moments of 3rd generation pathfinders. Overall the execution was planned under WWI ideas. Which are held as 2nd gen warfare concepts. Also, to this day it is argued extensively that our military still fights under a WWI concept, 2nd Gen. However, I believe there is a mix of 3rd to 2nd generation tactics. We are now, under the 4th generation of warfare. WWI relied on timetables, precise plans, and mathematical numbers. Yes, the technology has changed, but it is a falsehood to believe that technology drives the plan. Higher rates of fire do little to change a general's mind based on his training. Which is why WWI was so bloody, it was waged essentially and mostly on a 1st Gen warfare concept, or the Napoleonic method. The "troops to task" method. We are now engaged in a dynamic battlefield which requires "out of the box" thinking. A lot has changed in 55yrs and a lot hasn't!

10/24/2005 5:52:37 PM

while i know you are just regurgitating someone else's words, you're still missing the real point.

the Geneva Conventions are still applicable because at the time the exact same type of warfare was being fought. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla#World_War_II if you don't believe me. there is no need to throw away the Conventions because they were written 55 years ago.

Quote :

"Don't have too, because the information has saved my life. Drop the emotion and look at it objectively. There are/should be acceptable forms of torture. It is the only way to fight this kind of war. "

Quote :

"Don't think that you get anything out of torture, Bill, because you don't."

-Sen. McCain

also:

Quote :

"Mr. President, to fight terrorism we need intelligence. That much is obvious. What should also be obvious is that the intelligence we collect must be reliable and acquired humanely, under clear standards understood by all our fighting men and women. To do differently would not only offend our values as Americans, but undermine our war effort, because abuse of prisoners harms – not helps – us in the war on terror. First, subjecting prisoners to abuse leads to bad intelligence, because under torture a detainee will tell his interrogator anything to make the pain stop. Second, mistreatment of our prisoners endangers U.S. troops who might be captured by the enemy – if not in this war, then in the next. And third, prisoner abuses exact on us a terrible toll in the war of ideas, because inevitably these abuses become public. When they do, the cruel actions of a few darken the reputation of our country in the eyes of millions. American values should win against all others in any war of ideas, and we can’t let prisoner abuse tarnish our image. "

Quote :

"The Army Field Manual authorizes interrogation techniques that have proven effective in extracting life-saving information from the most hardened enemy prisoners. It is consistent with our laws and, most importantly, our values. Let us not forget that al-Qaeda sought not just to destroy American lives on September 11, but American values – our way of life and all we cherish. We fight not just to preserve our lives and liberties but also American values, and we will never allow the terrorists to take those away. In this war that we must win - that we will win - we must never simply fight evil with evil. "

http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=NewsCenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=1611


[Edited on October 24, 2005 at 8:14 PM. Reason : mehr]

10/24/2005 8:12:22 PM