...minority.

Quote :

" Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (3/20/2006) -- American’s increasing acceptance of religious diversity doesn’t extend to those who don’t believe in a god, according to a national survey by researchers in the University of Minnesota’s department of sociology. From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry. Even though atheists are few in number, not formally organized and relatively hard to publicly identify, they are seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public. “Atheists, who account for about 3 percent of the U.S. population, offer a glaring exception to the rule of increasing social tolerance over the last 30 years,” says Penny Edgell, associate sociology professor and the study’s lead researcher. Edgell also argues that today’s atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society. “It seems most Americans believe that diversity is fine, as long as every one shares a common ‘core’ of values that make them trustworthy—and in America, that ‘core’ has historically been religious,” says Edgell. Many of the study’s respondents associated atheism with an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism. Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting social disorder is behind the findings. “Americans believe they share more than rules and procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good.” The researchers also found acceptance or rejection of atheists is related not only to personal religiosity, but also to one’s exposure to diversity, education and political orientation—with more educated, East and West Coast Americans more accepting of atheists than their Midwestern counterparts. The study is co-authored by assistant professor Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann. It’s the first in a series of national studies conducted the American Mosaic Project, a three-year project funded by the Minneapolis-based David Edelstein Family Foundation that looks at race, religion and cultural diversity in the contemporary United States. The study will appear in the April issue of the American Sociological Review. "

http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=rel...l&ID=2816&-Find
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2006/03/24/67686


Discuss.

3/30/2006 3:11:51 AM

moral decline has nothing to do with Atheists,

which is funny

3/30/2006 3:31:15 AM

I'm basically an atheist, and i'd have to say yeah, atheists really kinda annoy me.





[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 4:21 AM. Reason : ei, ie, what the fuck]

3/30/2006 4:19:04 AM

uhhhhhhhhhh......duh

3/30/2006 5:12:55 AM

athiests can be as dogmatic and irritating as fundamentalist baptists

3/30/2006 8:17:34 AM

very true

and wow, you logged in as hemogoblin huh? bored with excoriator?

3/30/2006 8:31:03 AM

That's just plain stupid. Just because I am an atheist does not mean I am immoral or against the common good of our country. You also have to think about where they study took place & who they actually called. Minnesota is not known for tolerance or diversity, so the validity of those results is questionable. But I guess it doesn't matter that much, since I would never marry a person who is so close minded.

3/30/2006 10:16:27 AM

pastors hold alot of blame in this

ask your church going friends what the minister says about atheism

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 10:21 AM. Reason : ,]

3/30/2006 10:19:02 AM

HOLY CRAP

USERNAME BLAST FROM THE PAST

3/30/2006 10:25:25 AM

they should have polled TWW. From the "what religion are you" thread in the lounge

Quote :

"The count: Agnostic: 32 Atheist: 13 Christian: 59 Humanist: 3 Satanist: 2 Existentialist: 1 Jedi: 1 Jewish: 1 Neo-Pagan: 5 Frisbeetarian: 1 Buddhist: 2 Fremen: 1 Scientologist: 2 Unitarian: 1 Theoretical Particle Physics Buddhist: 1 Gnostic: 1 Classical Pagan: 1 Taoist: 1 Deist: 1 Hindu: 3 Muslim: 4 Panthiest: 1 Heaven's Gatist: 1 Epicurean: 1 "

close to 1/3 being either atheist or agnostic. i'm sure that the religious core probably lump atheism and agnosticism in the same boat.

3/30/2006 10:28:34 AM

Kind of makes sense from a logical point of view. If I didnt believe in a set of laws handed down by divinity I would probably be a huge jerk.

3/30/2006 10:32:41 AM

Quote :

"i'm sure that the religious core probably lump atheism and agnosticism in the same boat."

oh, they do

3/30/2006 10:33:05 AM

Quote :

"If I didnt believe in a set of laws handed down by divinity I would probably be a huge jerk."

i think that makes you a jerk anyway

it's not logical AT ALL that laws have to be handed down by divinity in order to be followed. I don't believe in the judeo christian god or that anyone gave us any sets of laws except the laws we gave ourselves, but I'm a very nice, helpful, and moral person.

3/30/2006 11:30:34 AM

Heaven's Gatist: 1


haha

3/30/2006 11:33:08 AM

What's wrong with being amoral, anyway? As long as you're not a dick head?

Let me qualify that more. I don't see what the point of needing morals is. Obviously people need to follow some reasonable boundaries in society, because they want to ensure their own safety through the smooth operation of society itself.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

3/30/2006 12:06:46 PM

I'm amoral

but ethical

3/30/2006 12:20:26 PM

Quote :

"it's not logical AT ALL that laws have to be handed down by divinity in order to be followed."

[old]

Plato said that about a million years ago. But he was something of a kook...

3/30/2006 12:29:20 PM

People were living in successful societies long before modern religions. Even these primitive people realized there were plenty of good reasons to make and abide by laws that benefit everyone and prevent anarchy. No deity neccessary.

I would venture to guess that religious people distrust atheists because, while few people switch religions entirely, billions of people worldwide slowly reject traditional religious beliefs and superstitions as they age and face the hardships of life. A perfect example is the jewish settlements in Siberia before WWII, which was hailed as a sort of new jewish homeland long before modern Israel. However, once they got there, many of the jews stop holding most religious ceremonies because of the difficult agricultural life they faced. The Soviet Union held little influence in the region at the time, so communism can't be blamed.

The fact is, people naturally distrust what they perceive as the biggest threat to their way of life. While their sons and daughters will likely never become gay or convert to Islam, it only takes a few years of hard living to fade their current religion into obsolescence.

3/30/2006 12:31:17 PM

Quote :

"it's not logical AT ALL that laws have to be handed down by divinity in order to be followed. I don't believe in the judeo christian god or that anyone gave us any sets of laws except the laws we gave ourselves, but I'm a very nice, helpful, and moral person."

Im not saying that you HAVE to have divine laws to be a lawful person. Im just saying for RELIGIOUS people there is an extra incentive to be a good person. Therefore, religious people are more likely not to be jerks

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 12:51 PM. Reason : yea id probably be a jerk if not for jesus]

3/30/2006 12:46:17 PM

It isn't that ludicrous a survey.

In terms of a visible decline in common morality as understood by many, you don't reall see it start to decline rapidly until the late 60's, which I would bet is when you also start to see a rise in atheism. Obviously that'd just be a correlation at best, but you can only expect so much from a large population...they say A and B happening at the same time, there's a seemingly reasonable possibility for a connection, and boom, these results.

3/30/2006 12:47:59 PM

Quote :

"Therefore, religious people are more likely not to be jerks."

Maybe. But I've never seen any evidence that this statement is true.

3/30/2006 12:48:58 PM

Quote :

"i'm sure that the religious core probably lump atheism and agnosticism in the same boat."

No kidding.

Not believing in a heavenly father is not the same as believing that there is no heavenly father.

A lot of people are intimidated by the mere statement: "I don't know."

3/30/2006 12:52:54 PM

Im just rationalizing it. Im sure there are plenty of not-so-obvious reasons that an atheist would be nicer than a religious person.

e.g. atheists dont kill in the name of the almighty nothing

3/30/2006 12:54:36 PM

Atheists and agnostics must be stopped at all costs!

3/30/2006 1:02:55 PM

Quote :

"In terms of a visible decline in common morality as understood by many, you don't reall see it start to decline rapidly until the late 60's, which I would bet is when you also start to see a rise in atheism."

do you have ANY sort of proof of that statement? you're saying that through all human history, the 1960s are when morals began to decline?

didn't people say that about the enlightenment, around the fall of rome... and just about any time that the idea of what was right and normal changed?

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 1:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/30/2006 1:14:30 PM

^ Did I just see you ask a theist for proof to back up his beliefs?

3/30/2006 1:17:54 PM

Haha! Seriously! Get ready for the "that's just how it is, don't ask questions" response.

Religious people do immoral things all the time, and sometimes in the name of their lord. The Crusades for one, jihad, the holocaust, etc. Religion has little or nothing to do with the actions of humans, because we're all stupid & selfish - some more than others.

I wouldn't classify Humanism as a religion. It's more of a set of ideas that MOST of the human race agrees with regardless of their religion.

Good quote: "Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, even if religion vanished; but religious superstition dismounts all these and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men." - Francis Bacon

And more - - http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_agnosticismatheism.html

3/30/2006 1:34:45 PM

Yeah OK, if I'm such a bad person, why am I a better Christian than so many Christians I know?

3/30/2006 1:35:04 PM

See what's great about being an atheist is I have absolutely no moral deliemma lying about my religion when it best suits my interest. I can say I'm a christian and not have any pushy god telling me that's wrong unlike jews/muslims/etc

3/30/2006 1:46:13 PM

Quote :

"you're saying that through all human history, the 1960s are when morals began to decline? "

No. Morals have gone up and down throughout human history.

However, everything up to the most recent peaks and valleys are really kind if irrelevant to this discussion.

There was a faily long period that arguably encompassed everything from the late Victorian era, prohibition, on into the 50's. All of these periods, of course, had their share of immoral shit going down, but it wasn't as visible and thus the public at large could ignore it or stamp it out. And, of course, there had been previous highs and lows, but they would not have affected people alive at the time and are thus irrelevant.

Then you hit the late 1960's, and the things that had been happening in private seclusion start happening in public view (drugs, promiscuity, etc). Besides that, things that would before have been unheard of -- widespread divorce and abortion -- start becoming the norm.

I'm interested to see how you're argue against that...Americans maintained a pretty fucking high level of decorum and morality, such as was permitted by circumstance, for most of their history, and you don't see that start to decline until this century.

Quote :

"just about any time that the idea of what was right and normal changed?"

You're getting too defensive, hippie. Notice my use of "common morality as understood by many."

If you're having trouble understanding, just read it as "Judeo-Christian morality." In their eyes, there has been a decline. Since they're the ones this thread is concerned with, I thought it might be of some utility to look at their thought process.

I hoped someone might be disingenuous enough to point out that the Civil Rights movement happened at the same time, just so that I could point out how the overwhelming majority of its leadership and membership were devoted theists, but no such luck, I guess.

3/30/2006 1:52:36 PM

Why isn't there a faith called realism. Where you live as a good person for the sake of being a good person. I say this because people tend to catorgorize agnostics as having no morals because they dont believe in any one god or set of beliefs.

3/30/2006 3:00:44 PM

I'm a Frisbeetarian by the way

3/30/2006 3:07:59 PM

a true atheist can not have morals. he or she can only have ethics

3/30/2006 3:09:14 PM

Quote :

"You're getting too defensive, hippie. Notice my use of "common morality as understood by many.""

not defensive, I just think your point is ridiculous

3/30/2006 3:12:12 PM

then how about you elaborate on why

3/30/2006 3:12:41 PM

...because Ganesh said so

3/30/2006 3:24:38 PM

Quote :

"you don't reall see it start to decline rapidly until the late 60's, which I would bet is when you also start to see a rise in atheism. Obviously that'd just be a correlation at best"

I find your assumption wrong for the reason that during the 60's people didn't delve into atheism when they were high or tripping. I would say the correlation matches the rise in agnostics since I consider thats what hippies are, more so than athiest. The flower children and the beginning of birth control may have brought upon sexual liberation and civil rights, but to say "morals" went down because of it is something that needs major back up. I mean, not long before 60's you had the halocaust, japanese interment camps, the rise of the cinema industry. Prohibition is another big one because you have to think about all crime that went down because of it. Al Capone and back woods distilleries, speak-easies.


[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 3:41 PM. Reason : for more examples]

3/30/2006 3:35:43 PM

what the hell



I'm an atheist and I live my life as morally as most religious people and am not even close to being materialistic.


I'm gonna start telling everyone I know that I'm an atheist and see if they start treating me differently.

3/30/2006 3:46:04 PM

Quote :

"a true atheist can not have morals. he or she can only have ethics"

Quote :

"eth·ic Audio pronunciation of "ethics" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thk) n. 1. 1. A set of principles of right conduct. 2. A theory or a system of moral values: “An ethic of service is at war with a craving for gain” (Gregg Easterbrook). 2. ethics (used with a sing. verb) The study of the general nature of morals and of the specific moral choices to be made by a person; moral philosophy. 3. ethics (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The rules or standards governing the conduct of a person or the members of a profession: medical ethics."

what the christ

3/30/2006 3:54:41 PM

well i guess if you're going to have to resort to definition #2

I was speaking with primary definitions in mind, however.

3/30/2006 3:56:08 PM

Grumpy GOP, I see you already mentioned Prohibition and that History does have its up's and down's. I'm glad you said that. Needless to say, I found the atheism/60's correlation wrong and feel that if anything gave rise to atheism it would be the internet, coupled with the heated conflicts over religion that are currently playing out here and in the rest of the world.

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 4:00 PM. Reason : .]

3/30/2006 3:57:51 PM

yeah

the internet is causing an increase in atheism

...

do you even go outside?

3/30/2006 4:01:13 PM

I love how atheists in this thread are feeling victimized

3/30/2006 4:03:14 PM

Do you ever not troll.

The internet is fastest medium to share thoughts and ideas, why wouldn't it contribute to atheism.

3/30/2006 4:03:21 PM

why would it?

do you think that internet nerds do not or are not loved by God?

3/30/2006 4:04:40 PM

Quote :

"well i guess if you're going to have to resort to definition #2 I was speaking with primary definitions in mind, however."

Yeah I have to "resort" to definition #2 on dictionary.com.

The dashboard widget dictionary I have states this as the 1st definition:

Quote :

"moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior"

How exactly are you defining ethics that makes it any different than morals? An abstract set of absolute rules seems to be exactly that.

3/30/2006 4:06:17 PM

...


WTF are you talking about. Go back under your bridge where you belong

[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ^^]

3/30/2006 4:06:48 PM

under the bridge...

because i'm a troll

very, very clever

...

you need to back up your absurd assertion that the internet is somehow causing a massive increase in atheism

just because it's what you spend 90% of YOUR time on does not mean it has an overwelming influence on religious thought

3/30/2006 4:10:30 PM

nastoute, there has always been atheists but today it seems they're on the rise. I already wrote that the internet (fastest medium to transfer ideas) coupled with the religious conflicts currently playing out in the world is breeding ground for assholes like you to go on the internet and spew out their mindless thoughts. I cant make it any clearer to you without going into the many facts pertaining to history, clashes of cultures and ideas, and the concept of critical thinking. You my friend have to do that on your own.

And by the way, you dont know shit about me so quit showing your ass on a website and act like a fucking adult.


[Edited on March 30, 2006 at 4:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/30/2006 4:16:07 PM

an atheist behaves "morally" (with respect to others) because of the social contract. it's presumed that you'll not murder, rape, and steal from me if i do none of them to you.

3/30/2006 4:17:49 PM