Quote :

"Also new homes are more willing to negotiate with you if you dont have an agent, because most of them pay HUGE payouts to buyers agents and therefore dont like to negotiate."

This really depends on where you go. Maybe some of the small builders are like this but the large companies are not at all. I worked for years in a situation where the builder paid 5% regardless of whether the sale was co-brokered or not. I always had to make the carl face when people came in with this strategy. It is by far the worst negotiation strategy you can ever use on a house. It did not apply to my listings, and really set the tone for the rest of the negotiations....

If you want to negotiate do some research on recent sales and the market conditions, then be willing to offer a quick closing. (2 weeks is optimal) If you can close fast and have your financing in order then you can negotiate. Going in talking about what you know about someones listing agreements just makes you look silly. I have witnessed a builder have to bring over $5,000 to a closing just to pay the lien off (he walked away with nothing), a couple of others where they barely broke even or even had to pay a little. In all of those situations the builders paid what they were supposed to in commission.

Just think about it like you had a project at work that you spent a month or two, or three, or four, or five on and finally got it to work out. Then the guy you were working for said well I did not make much money on this so I am only gonna pay you half. That would not create a good environment for future projects from you or anyone that you ever came in contact the rest of your life. The builders do not want to alienate agents.

4/11/2008 10:00:14 AM

Quote :

"the large companies are not at all"

4/11/2008 10:14:36 AM

Quote :

"Also new homes are more willing to negotiate with you if you dont have an agent, because most of them pay HUGE payouts to buyers agents and therefore dont like to negotiate."

Yeah, i just had the opposite experience. They wouldn't budge until I got my uncle involved as my agent. He's already brought the builder a ton of business in the past, so i'm sure this was the most critical factor.
We should finalize the price today --- with about a $60k reduction in the selling price. (35k in upgrades and 25k off the asking price)

4/11/2008 10:19:16 AM

^ why did you decide to move - schools for the kid? i thought you had a decent house you were in that was big enough for the 3 of you

4/11/2008 11:12:20 AM

so Cuntrywide stuck me with an unreasinably high escrow and some bs insurance that i already had through State Farm, and after a couple of days of arguing, i got both of the escrow reduced and the insurance thrown out. its about $400 less per month.

i hate it when lenders are shady...

4/11/2008 12:34:14 PM

That's why I told courtywide I wasn't going to escrow.

4/11/2008 12:39:25 PM

i think i may have doomed myself.

i may be getting a job at UNC. right now we live on the far east side of raleigh, at the edge of knightdale. the husband works in durham off page road. so we want to move (if i get the job).

we'd be looking in a place that will keep driving down to 30ish minutes (or less) for both of us. single family home with a yard. we really want SPACE.

but god knows how much we'll be able to borrow. i've saved about 2.5k this year, but that's it. husband makes over 50k a year, but also has student loans and a large-ish credit card. my job will only pay 20-30k.

right now we're in a 1 bedroom apartment and only pay a little over 600/month. ideally we'd be looking for something that will cost us under 1000/month including taxes/etc. but god knows if we can find a decent (and permanent) house to be able to do that.

so far everything is in east durham or too small. and i'm a complete loser when it comes to economics and taxes and all that.

ARG. HELP US.

ps- we're going to work on getting pre-approved on a loan as soon as i know whether i got the job (aka, tuesday).

[Edited on April 11, 2008 at 8:53 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2008 8:48:36 PM

what's the opinion on the houses around the poole road area?

also, what's this i hear about a $7000 federal tax credit if you buy a foreclosed home?

[Edited on April 11, 2008 at 9:13 PM. Reason : moar]

4/11/2008 9:07:22 PM

^its actually supposed to be for a foreclosed OR new home from what ive read...but yeah i dont think the administration will ever sign it into law

4/11/2008 9:44:58 PM

Quote :

"why did you decide to move - schools for the kid? i thought you had a decent house you were in that was big enough for the 3 of you"

the wife's graduating from med school next month and got residency at UNC -- working 80 hour weeks for the next 4 years with a 45 minute commute each way wasn't going to work too well, so we're heading to SW durham.

heh, unfortunately we're moving from a fantastic school district (leesville) to a shitty one (durham).

4/11/2008 11:15:38 PM

just got our first house.

our agent has been invaluable.

what do you mean the escrow is too high? it's escrow for taxes/insurance and that's it... those prices are fixed by third-parties, not Countrywide, right?

the only thing that's really important is making sure the lender fee's, and origination fees are low so you APR isn't through the roof.

what's shady isn't the #1 home lender in America... it's the LendingTree lenders like "BlackHorse" and "First National Bank of Kansas" and such that are smaller financial institutions and more likely to sell your mortgage to someone else

after looking at interest rates alone, my bank was actually the lowest. after looking at fees, and the final APR, Countrywide was actually the lowest, the friendliest and IMHO the most honest with us (could just be the agent). we just got our 1st go-around at the paper work and they did up the origination fee % which I'm going to ask they drop % or just drop all-together (since most other competitive lenders have 0% origination fees..)... and no i'm not talking about discount points.

[Edited on April 12, 2008 at 2:43 AM. Reason : .]

4/12/2008 2:39:35 AM

Quote :

"what's the opinion on the houses around the poole road area? also, what's this i hear about a $7000 federal tax credit if you buy a foreclosed home?"

Whenever you see a trailer park. Rest assured some retard has a 450k home within 2 miles.

Has anyone ever noticed that phenomenon?

4/12/2008 8:34:35 AM

^ahahah yes.

hell, i saw a lot of high dollar houses popping up near trailer parks, while house hunting in the last few weeks. It seems that as long as you can't see the trailer park from your front door, you're far enough away.

or something.

4/12/2008 8:37:41 AM

I think they must get a kick out of towering over the less fortunate. I cant really think of any other reason you would build a 450k home near a trailer park. I mean, yeah the land may be cheap, but you're not exactly lower class.

I actually make a point to look for the nearest large home every time i pass a park. I like when there are like 30 nice homes in a little subdivision and right across from the entrance is a mobile home with about 10 acres of land.

4/12/2008 8:39:49 AM

My theory is that they assume that their mcmansion will increase the property value and prompt the trailer home owner to cash out and go away.

The neighborhood I'm moving to is sort of like this, minus the trailer parks. Lots of farms with new subdivisions interspersed, as some of the farm land gets sold to developers. It's halfway between cool and sad.

4/12/2008 9:24:07 AM

my grandparents own around 80 acres north of Minneapolis which the family has owned since the 20's. They use very little of it now and subdivisions have been popping up all around them. They sold a chunk of their land for around 800k. Its not always sad and many times families get silly rich because of developments.

4/12/2008 10:17:50 AM

hence the halfway.

cool: people getting paid
sad: sprawl

4/12/2008 10:52:42 AM

Quote :

"what do you mean the escrow is too high? it's escrow for taxes/insurance and that's it... those prices are fixed by third-parties, not Countrywide, right?"

Judging by my sample closing cost pdf I thought they were just estimates, but I don't escrow so I could be wrong.

4/12/2008 10:52:47 AM

yeah i imagine the people mad about it being too high are mad because the company just estimated badly because the estimates were off - it's not an exact science for escrow - sometimes they are a little low and sometimes they are a little high because the values that you are taxed on and cost of insurance can change from time to time if not yearly in some cases - they definitely aren't monitoring every single person's insurance and tax bill

i can't imagine it's that hard to either cancel escrow or to change the amount but i've never tried

4/12/2008 11:50:42 AM

There is also a limit to how much of your money they can hold in escrows so if the projections change in your favor you will get a refund check.

4/12/2008 12:54:00 PM

Quote :

"Then, get a buyers agent who lives in the area ONLY once you have seen all the FSBO's that are available. Also, when hiring said buyers agent, insist upon a clause that you do not want he/she to show you any FSBO's properties, and that if you find one on your own during the period of your agreement with the buyers agent, you will not be required to use the buyers agent in negotiating the property. "

this is pretty standard language, although you are going to put off most buyer's agents if you waste their time over a long period and end up going through the FSBO. Its not really fair to have someone work for you for free.

its simple...hire the agent to help you find a house, no matter what it is, or dont.

4/12/2008 3:01:43 PM

if i wouldn't pay the plumber who didn't fix my toilet, why would i pay the agent that didn't find my house? both did SOMETHING, but in both cases, neither did anything of any value for me, so why should either get paid?

4/12/2008 3:40:16 PM

do you have a job? do you work for free?

if a person works for you in good faith you should pay them. the plumber example is not a good metaphor. you are talking about performance vs. action. the plumber in your example "cant" fix the toilet. the agent can find your a house, you just happen to find your own.

if you plan on searching for your own place through a FSBO and dont want to pay an agent to help you, dont hire one. simple. I would not agree to such terms with a person because I dont want the headache/possiblity that I am going to do work for them, show them properties, lend them expertise, spend gas money, etc...and not get paid for it.

[Edited on April 12, 2008 at 4:03 PM. Reason : .]

4/12/2008 4:00:30 PM

Quote :

"do you have a job? do you work for free?"

i'll tell you what - i'll go to my boss tomorrow and ask if i can get paid even if i don't produce anything worthwhile (but if i try, it's okay)...if he says he doesn't mind, you'll have convinced me

otherwise, while i agree that the metaphor is a bit off, i don't think it's entirely irrelevant...if my agent REALLY wants their commission, s/he'll get off their ass, away from a computer (because, hell, i can search the listings by myself), and go driving through neighborhoods finding me FSBOs...if that's what agents do on a regular basis, then i apologize (seriously)...i just didn't realize that the vast majority of them actively go looking, as opposed to doing the same basic searches that a monkey can do

4/12/2008 4:10:56 PM

you obviously have never worked with an agent that is worth a damn, if you have even worked with one at all.

4/12/2008 5:17:49 PM

Quote :

"i just didn't realize that the vast majority of them actively go looking,"

are you fucking serious?

what the hell do you even base that assumption on?

4/13/2008 8:58:25 AM

^ yes, i'm fucking serious...i honest-to-God did NOT realize that they get in their BMWs and go driving around all day looking for FSBOs

Quote :

"you obviously have never worked with an agent that is worth a damn, if you have even worked with one at all."

i've worked with 3 agents total - 2 when i was looking at homes a few years ago, and then 1 when i tagged along with my gf...i spent 5 consecutive weeks with the first 2, and never saw even one FSBO...4 weeks with the third also showed us no FSBOs (despite the fact that i found several that fit the criteria she gave her)

i realize that there are good agents and bad agents (and i REALLY loved the one i ended up signing a contract with a few years back), but i simply didn't realize that they spent their days driving around looking for homes that weren't listed MLS

so, yeah, i'm basing my viewpoint on my experiences...what should i base it on? yours? some other random person? more than 2 months with 3 different agents is enough for me to form an opinion...i'm sorry y'all disagree

[Edited on April 13, 2008 at 9:21 AM. Reason : .]

4/13/2008 9:19:54 AM

I am gonna be brutally honest here. No agent is gonna get excited about getting our client involved with a FSBO.

Have you ever been on craigslist looking for a car and seen the guy with the 10 year old car car, overpriced by thousands, that does not have any pictures up, and says "call me because I don't check e-mail, "price firm""? I swear those same people are the ones that list FSBO.

They want everything on their terms, and the odds of you getting a decent deal and a smooth transaction are about the same of hitting the powerball.

4/13/2008 9:28:24 AM

most FSBO's also will not pay an agent. if the client (you) does not agree to supplement a commission in case the FSBO will not pay, agents are not going to take you any where near one for risk of working "for free" +

Quote :

"Have you ever been on craigslist looking for a car and seen the guy with the 10 year old car car, overpriced by thousands, that does not have any pictures up, and says "call me because I don't check e-mail, "price firm""? I swear those same people are the ones that list FSBO. They want everything on their terms, and the odds of you getting a decent deal and a smooth transaction are about the same of hitting the powerball. "

most FSBO's wont do a property disclosure form which will cause agents to give them a WIDE berth for their client's sake.

4/13/2008 4:14:02 PM

So you're primarily focused on finding a house that is a good fit for your client and has a high percentage of making you money.

Isn't that exactly what he said ?

4/13/2008 5:53:26 PM

Quote :

"most FSBO's also will not pay an agent"

That's why an agent should call and ask, " If I have a client interested in your property, are you willing to pay me commission". Depending on the situation (how long its been sitting), a FSBO could very well still represent themselves and still pay out some commission to the buyer's agent. They are still saving commission on the other side. You won't know unless you call.

Quote :

"most FSBO's wont do a property disclosure form"

I think homeowners are required by law to fill out a residential property disclosure statement. This is regardless of whether they are "represented" or "unrepresented".Also, they need to fill out the lead/paint addendum along with the HOA disclosure.

There are a few exemptions to the disclosure statement such as REO (Real Estate Owned). Banks are pretty much exempt from providing a residential property disclosure statement.

[Edited on April 13, 2008 at 7:05 PM. Reason : BLAH]

4/13/2008 7:04:04 PM

Quote :

"I think homeowners are required by law to fill out a residential property disclosure statement. This is regardless of whether they are "represented" or "unrepresented".Also, they need to fill out the lead/paint addendum along with the HOA disclosure."

this is true...regardless of FSBO or represented by an agent, it's required by law

4/13/2008 10:44:42 PM

None of that is true.

4/13/2008 11:55:28 PM

Although, that doesn't stop somebody from listing "no representation" all the way down. And that itself involves a whole different set of disclosure rules/guidelines which we won't get into.

[Edited on April 14, 2008 at 7:53 AM. Reason : blah]

4/14/2008 7:52:03 AM

Quote :

"None of that is true."

the lead disclosure form is optional? that doesn't seem right...do you have some kind of proof?

i can see the other general disclosure form being optional...the standard offer to purchase lists them both, and i can understand that they'd leave it open to dumb people not to have one, but i can't quite fathom why the government would allow people to knowingly avoid lead disclosure

4/14/2008 9:41:44 AM

I mustve been mistaken but I thought the property disclosure form was purely a 'Realtor' form designed to protect the buyer and the seller. I dont think any of those things HAVE to be filled out by law. Some lenders may require them but I am sure some dont. Hell, a FSBO can be sold on a dinner napkin, or with a handshake as long as it is recorded.

The proof is that if I have funds and you and I agree on a deal, technically I can buy your real property without any forms.

[Edited on April 14, 2008 at 10:01 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 14, 2008 at 10:04 AM. Reason : ..]

4/14/2008 10:00:40 AM

it has some exemptions like I stated earlier. (agreement not to complete one, new construction, and so on). See G.S. 47E for more details. It spells out all the exemptions

One would be foolish to be a first time homebuyer and not have the seller fill one out.

4/14/2008 10:07:44 AM

The lead based paint disclosure form is for homes built prior to 1978. There are legal liabillities for the seller (and agents if applicable) in the event one is not used on the sale of a home built prior to 1978.

It is supposed to be provided to the buyer's of any home built prior to 1978 but as was just stated nothing is "required". If Suzie Seller sells Bobby Buyer a house and neither of them are aware of the obligation, no one is going to stop the sale from going through.

Bobby may end up suing Suzie for not making the lead based paint disclosure (assuming he suffered some sort of loss because of not having the disclosure made to him).

In this case both of them have a huge increase in liablillity because of something that a licensed agent would have likely pointed out had one been involved.

http://www.hud.gov/offices/lead/enforcement/disclosure.cfm

4/14/2008 12:25:15 PM

The lead paint form is a joke from what I saw. You know every old house has lead paint, but according to the terms of the form you don't "know" it has lead paint...i.e., you haven't taken a sample of the paint and sent it in for testing. It's a joke.

4/14/2008 12:33:00 PM

A seller can state that they have no knowledge of lead based paint but its up to the buyer to confirm that. You would figure that with a statement like "Every purchaser of any interest in residential real property on which a residential dwelling was built prior to 1978 is notified that such property may present exposure to lead from lead-based paint that may place young children at risk of developing lead poisoning.", it would throw up red flags to the buyer to get whatever tests they need to get done.

Blah, I guess when you are talking about unrepresented buyers and unrepresented sellers, it will get messy.

[Edited on April 14, 2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason : blahhh]

4/14/2008 12:43:28 PM

Quote :

"Blah, I guess when you are talking about unrepresented buyers and unrepresented sellers, it will get messy. "

which is the point.

4/14/2008 1:02:09 PM

^ unless, of course, the buyer and seller are capable of using the internet and using common sense...in which case, this whole thing is (again) simple

4/14/2008 1:20:00 PM

Quote :

"A seller can state that they have no knowledge of lead based paint but its up to the buyer to confirm that."

Yeah, but once you (as a buyer) confirm that the house has lead paint you have to disclose it when you sell which is why nobody does it. You know the house has lead paint, but the last thing you want to do is confirm it and have to disclose it when you go to sell the house.

It's just common sense. If you're worried about lead paint then don't buy an older home. If you aren't worried then buy an older home and don't waste your money with the testing to find out what you already know because it may hurt your ability to sell down the road.

And I wouldn't be too concerned about having to disclose that it has lead paint today, but there is always the possibility of further legislation or evolving mindsets. For all we know lead paint might be the asbestos of the next decade. Who knows what kind of laws might be written into effect over the next 20 years.

4/14/2008 1:46:14 PM

on the agent vs no agent topic:
i found my crib on my own. it was FSBO with a sign in the yard. he hadn't even listed it on the internet yet. i also was set on DNJ because of the low cost mortgage, and because Chris Corchiani was very attentive and always returned my calls even if the question was stupid (one time he called me a minute after being on tv about some dumb question i had).

however, i did engage a longtime family friend of ours who is an agent, to help me just because it was my first purchase. since an agent was involved, the price i negotiated with the seller was offset in the amount of the comission, but my agent then split the comission with me for having her in the process. there was a ton of minutae in the deal that she addressed, and it made my life a whole lot easier -- i don't know if that's because she is a friend or because she is a good agent, but the purchase felt a lot better with her leading the adminstrative process.

4/14/2008 2:07:25 PM

so what are some "good" rates out there for the arm and/or fixed?

i always assume i would borrow from SECU, but I'm sure there are better rates out there right??

I didn't see any rates on DNJs website.

SECU:
2YR ARM: 4.25% or 4.75% (depending on 90% or 100% LTV)
30 YR Fixed 6% or 6.5% (same)

Navy Federal Credit Union:
30 YR VA Loan: 5.5%
which looks nice but theres this...

Quote :

"Rates quoted below require a 1.00% origination fee. The origination fee may be waived for a 0.25% increase in the interest rate. All VA loans are subject to a funding fee of up to 3.30% of the loan amount."

So I don't know if that kills it or if thats standard...

Can anyone point out the best deals here:
http://www.navyfcu.org/rates/mortgage-frameset.html?p=r&n=3

4/15/2008 9:34:46 AM

Quote :

"I'm sure there are better rates out there right??"

Fixed: Yes
Adjustable: No

Quote :

"I don't know if that kills it or if thats standard..."

That's pretty standard. It was like that for every place I looked at except one.

4/15/2008 9:56:36 AM

to help out future buyers and the such we should maintain a list of builders that people have had good/bad experiences with - feel free to add a story but to maintain it in the list might be a bit much

Good
Pulte - OmarBadu - Bought 04/07 - Sold N/A

Bad

4/20/2008 9:31:54 PM

Good
Pulte - OmarBadu - Bought 04/07 - Sold N/A
Beazer - MOODY - Bought 11/07 - Sold N/A

Bad
KB Homes - MOODY - Backed out due to shadiness between both KB and Countrywide

4/20/2008 9:54:00 PM

Really? I had no problems with KB or Countrywide.

4/21/2008 9:44:52 AM

i think it's safe to say that there are going to be people that disagree on positives and negatives listed as the experience is largely dependent on the people that were involved on both sides of the table

probably easier to just add your name to the list as to which builder you had an experience with and can add a story as to why you think so


the idea is that if there are 3 ppl that listed a builder as good but 1 person listed them as bad - the potential buyer could PM all 4 to hear their viewpoints and weigh them...

4/21/2008 10:11:44 AM