Don't worry, no one is going to force you to get out of your car. Just keep your windows rolled up tight and you'll never have to smell or interact with any other people.

11/8/2012 1:57:41 PM

Quote :

" Public transportation is the first step to urban decay."

hahahahaha

11/8/2012 2:24:11 PM

Laugh all you want, but there's a reason suburbs are popular. To those that have escaped the cities, the last thing they want is for their problems to follow them home. If they can live and work without even dealing with the frustrations of overcrowded cities, so much the better. Sprawl is preferable to crime.

Hillsborough st used to be the suburbs, but the streetcars and buses turned it into the disaster it is today.

[Edited on November 8, 2012 at 3:03 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2012 2:55:33 PM

Except that suburban sprawl is starting to reverse. Cities are growing now at a faster rate than the suburbs.

Some people like suburbs. Some people like cities. We don't have to choose one or the other. What we don't need is people who enjoy living on cul-de-sacs and driving for 100% of their trips telling everyone else that they have no choice but to have that lifestyle as well.

The stereotype of suburbs being perfectly safe and cities being crime-ridden is an extremely outdated one.

Either way, I'm not really sure what the core of your argument really is. Are you suggesting that criminals from downtown Raleigh (when's the last time you've actually been downtown by the way?) are going to ride the light rail out to your house to rob you?

11/8/2012 3:03:57 PM

He's just trolling.

11/8/2012 3:06:00 PM

I know he is, but these are real arguments that people use. Certain communities around Atlanta have blocked MARTA extensions based on the argument that black people from Atlanta will ride out to rape, murder and rob the good white suburban citizens.

11/8/2012 3:08:01 PM

The truth is I have no capacity to judge the ideas in my own head and rely entirely upon you guys to tell me when I'm completely wrong.

I'm glad you bring up the MARTA issue. It illustrates my point perfectly. If you have a problem area, the solution is to isolate it, not allow it to spread and corrupt.

This is the entire point of property zoning, extended to its natural conclusion. Mixed use is inherently impossible.

[Edited on November 8, 2012 at 3:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2012 3:16:15 PM

Quote :

"The stereotype of suburbs being perfectly safe and cities being crime-ridden is an extremely outdated one. "

I suppose that's what I should've told the robbers that nailed me once.

It has nothing to deal with suburb vs. city, it's the culture and the living standard of the people in them. There's dirt poor hellhole suburbs just as there are nice cities (e.g. France). Cities here aren't innately crime-ridden, it's the people living there that do crime and they live where it's rundown/dirt cheap. All making everyone move closer together is going to do is make those people move somewhere else in the city and/or suburbs and that place will become the new crime-ridden community.

[Edited on November 8, 2012 at 3:42 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2012 3:16:42 PM

Actually, euclidean zoning was developed for the purpose of preventing dirty industrial businesses from spreading into suburban residential areas. It is for the most part an outdated concept that created this mess of sprawl and automobile traffic unique to the United States, and you are going to gradually see it phased out of planning (and this has already started in Raleigh's most recent comprehensive plan).

11/8/2012 3:26:02 PM

Zoning can only be discarded because there is no real industry left here. If modern companies still produced the horrible filth that made American prosperity possible in the first place, you would be screaming for increased zoning.

The milltown on S. Saunders street still hasn't recovered from the squalor of industrial poverty. The polluted soil certainly hasn't and never will.

I wonder how much unexploded ordinance and pollution is left on Hillsborough St from the army base there.

11/8/2012 4:13:12 PM

I'm with you completely on that and understand completely the importance zoning played in keeping dirty industry out of people's backyards, but I wouldn't be screaming for increased zoning, just smarter zoning.

Keeping unwanted uses out of residential areas can be accomplished quite easily without single-use zoning. The main downside to single-use zoning has been that it isolated people's homes from many of their basic needs. Mixed-use zoning has all of the benefits of single-use without the unintended consequences. You can still exclude unwanted uses, but complementary uses can co-exist.

11/8/2012 4:29:22 PM

Zoning is a lot more involved than the 3 category sim city model

But smc is obviously just trolling

11/8/2012 5:11:37 PM

^ Yeah, no shit.

Light industrial/Heavy industrial, Light residential/Heavy residential, Light commercial/Heavy commercial. There are 6.

11/8/2012 6:08:00 PM

Those "temporary" patios at the bowling alley ever gonna get finished?

11/8/2012 11:11:11 PM

is smc posting from 1968?

11/8/2012 11:44:35 PM

Those temporary railings are permanent railings.

Also, if you look closely you'll see that they painted two of the pre-cast panels a very faint pastel color. How they thought that would work I have no idea.

They need to remove all of the panels and replace the railing with a matching architectural style.

11/8/2012 11:47:20 PM

They really just need to re-do the whole strip between Wells Fargo and Chipotle.

I always dream of some apartments with street-level retail and decent-looking, brick architecture. What is there now is just ugly.

11/9/2012 7:21:23 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, no shit. Light industrial/Heavy industrial, Light residential/Heavy residential, Light commercial/Heavy commercial. There are 6."

lol

11/9/2012 8:20:52 AM

i'm very tempted to give them an un-requested quote to remove those panels and install a decent looking railing at cost. if my winter wasn't already all scheduled I would definitely do it as fill-in.

11/9/2012 9:10:47 AM

Pleeeaaassseeeeee do!

[Edited on November 9, 2012 at 6:26 PM. Reason : They cray!]

11/9/2012 6:25:56 PM

Quote :

"Zoning is a lot more involved than the 3 category sim city model But smc is obviously just trolling"

I remember when I first played sim city. I thought it was obvious there needed to be industrial and residential areas, so I made big plots and sat there staring at it like WHY AREN'T ANY BUILDINGS GROWING

Then after a while I discovered the commercial type. Then it worked.

11/9/2012 6:35:28 PM

Is Klara's open?

11/13/2012 8:05:03 PM

Hillsborough/Western bridge is going down tonight.

1/6/2013 11:10:24 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZguHLo-Yq0

1/6/2013 11:29:05 PM

Quote :

"laugh all you want, but there's a reason suburbs are popular. To those that have escaped the cities, the last thing they want is for their problems to follow them home. If they can live and work without even dealing with the frustrations of overcrowded cities, so much the better. Sprawl is preferable to crime."

Why do people want to live in a far off area where you have to drive everywhere? I don't get it. You would even need a car if you lived in the city because busses/trains will take you anywhere. Suburbs are just an example of fear mongering. You scare people away from the city so that they have to buy a car to get to work.

1/7/2013 1:55:34 AM

He's trolling

Every day that goes buy just makes me madder and madder at the bowling alley. Those panels and porches look terrible. They need to fucking fix it.

1/7/2013 6:48:52 AM

Was just in Raleigh for the first time in a year and I LOL'd when I went by the bowling alley.

1/7/2013 9:43:34 AM

^^ Maybe you could by them new panels.

1/7/2013 7:56:22 PM

I'll quote them removing the panels and fixing up the facade, but I'd have to subcontract most of it so it wouldn't be a very good quote.

1/7/2013 9:15:09 PM

http://www.raleighpublicrecord.org/news/2013/01/11/seven-story-stanhope-building-denied-by-council-committee/

1/15/2013 12:51:14 AM

^Huh, actually surprised to see that. Wondering what compromise if any they'll come to. Not entirely sure (if it's even been said) what that part of the Stanhope project is even meant to house.

1/15/2013 1:45:49 AM

1/15/2013 4:00:52 AM

Bonner Gaylord knows what's up.

1/15/2013 6:02:45 AM

Well that is a major bummer, especially if it kills the project.

1/15/2013 9:37:05 AM

If the city council won't budge, I hope it does "kill" the project. The fact that most developers will build anyways at the lower height gives these NIMBYS and short sighted city leaders the power to continually push projects closer to the ground. Fuck the neighbors, they chose to live right off of Hillsborough street. Hell, University towers is 10 stories high.

1/15/2013 9:43:26 AM

UT is 10 stories high and I think Valentine Commons may be taller than that. However, both of them are far back from the street itself. This is/was going to be seven stories right up on the road--if there wasn't a setback then I think that might be too tall. If it incorporates an adequate setback then no problem.

1/15/2013 11:21:09 AM

what's the advantage of the setback?

1/15/2013 11:32:27 AM

No to setbacks. Part of the point of projects like this and the revitalization of Hillsborough Street in general is to make the street more vibrant with retail and activity right on the sidewalk.

A design friend of mine once said that he believes a the buildings on each side of a street should have a height that matches the width in between them. This seems to be a prevalent belief amongst urban designers. I don't think it should be applied as a hard and fast rule because there are many, many, many exceptions, but whenever I am in a place that I really like I often look at the ratio, and I have found that a lot of my favorite places do follow that idea. I'm not sure if it is applicable here.

Personally, I think 4 to 5 stories is a great height. While I'm sure there is value for the developer in getting more stories, to the average street user I don't think there is really any additional benefit that would be seen, so that is why I hope the project can still progress at a lower height than was wished for by the developers.

1/15/2013 11:39:26 AM

4 to 5 stories would be fine. 7 with no setback might be a bit much--do we really want one block of Hillsborough to look like downtown? Or what about 5 stories on the street level and then a setback for the top 2?

(^^Your basic reason for the setback is to allow light to reach the street and avoid the mentioned "urban canyon" feel)

1/15/2013 12:05:15 PM

And the reason we don't want setbacks in this part of the city is because they are not the mixed-use/urban and pedestrian friendly like we want here.

The 5 story limit for this district in the proposed UDO is right IMO

1/15/2013 12:10:38 PM

Quote :

" Or what about 5 stories on the street level and then a setback for the top 2?"

Definitely; this kind of thing is the best way to deal with those kinds of issues IMO.

I'm curious as to why they are so adamant on 7 stories anyway. I'm not an engineer, but my understanding has been that once you get above 4 or 5 stories the cost of construction jumps significantly because you can no longer use the cheap "stick built" materials approach. Anyone know more about that?

1/15/2013 12:34:46 PM

I believe that's generally the case. All of the apartments being thrown up around Glenwood South are 4-5 stories and done with wood framing over a poured concrete parking deck.

1/15/2013 12:37:33 PM

^Not to mention all the buildings going up in the Oberlin x Clark intersection, same dealio.

1/15/2013 1:28:47 PM

Quote :

"Ariella ?@AriellaM Stanhope vote delayed so the developer can come back with some revised conditions for a 5-story building"

1/15/2013 5:11:22 PM

Quote :

"A design friend of mine once said that he believes a the buildings on each side of a street should have a height that matches the width in between them. This seems to be a prevalent belief amongst urban designers. I don't think it should be applied as a hard and fast rule because there are many, many, many exceptions, but whenever I am in a place that I really like I often look at the ratio, and I have found that a lot of my favorite places do follow that idea. I'm not sure if it is applicable here. "

DC is like this, you get plenty of density, but also sunlight in between the buildings. Its not like NYC where your phone wont even get GPS cuz the buildings are so damn tall.

1/15/2013 11:43:29 PM

Why dont they put 4 stories of it underground?

1/16/2013 12:49:42 AM

Clearly you're not an engineer.

1/16/2013 1:02:45 AM

So, all this discussion on here about too much height was irrelevant apparently.

Quote :

"Raleigh, N.C. — The fate of part of Hillsborough Street’s Stanhope development has been put on hold for another three weeks. Developers seem to be bending to the will of neighbors who want to see a five-story building instead of seven. Attorney Robin Curin Tuesday asked Councilors to delay their vote until their next meeting, allowing the developer to revise the conditions that would limit the 79-foot-tall building to five stories. A Raleigh City Council committee last week rejected a proposal for a seven-story building of the same height on the site. The future building on Hillsborough and Concord streets is part of a three-section Master Plan for the area. Developers originally wanted to build an 86-foot-tall building on the corner, but came down to 79 feet as a compromise with the neighborhood. The 79-foot-tall building would be on the same visual level as the 74-foot Kerr Drugs building proposed for Hillsborough Street and Friendly Drive. While neighbors seemed to agree on the physical height of the building, they opposed anything more than five stories, saying it would add too much density to an area already plagued by traffic problems. Curin said in previous meetings the developer was unwilling to commit to a five-story limit because it would hinder his ability to find a user for the space. Curin said the developer had immediate interest in a seven-story building. A final vote could come at the Council’s regular meeting at 1 p.m. Feb. 5."

I'm sorry but this area is not "plagued by traffic problems", and more density will bring more businesses which could mean *gasp* less need to drive to destinations as much.

1/18/2013 11:51:13 AM

NIMBYism at its finest. I sometimes forget how ignorant the average person is with regards to urban dynamics (disclaimer: I'm actually a city planner)

1/18/2013 12:04:39 PM

So dumb

1/18/2013 12:12:50 PM