any late first round RBs like Deangelo Williams or Lawrence Maroney have already scored touchdowns

9/27/2006 2:19:50 PM

Yeah but they don't have the potential and instant imact on their team. They didn't bring a level of excitement to their teams like Bush has. Like I said. 99% of the sports world says you are wrong, so I will go with them over some wannabes on here anyday.

9/27/2006 2:21:03 PM

was Bush the best player in college football last year? should he have been the #1 pick in the draft? is he the best rookie in the league this year?

assuming you answer yes to all 3 questions...why hasnt he sniffed the endzone in 180 minutes worth of NFL football?

Mario 0
Reggie 0

9/27/2006 2:22:34 PM

Umm yes, he won the Heisman, yes he should have been #1, and yes he is the best rookie so far.

He hasn't been a letdown like Mario has. He has produced in games. Mario hasn't The fact that Mario is constantly booed by the people in his stadium, is enough.


Bush 3
Mario 0

Why is it so hard for you to just admit, that Bush should have gone #1. Are 99% of people involved in sports wrong? And you just happen to be right? Doubtful.

As of draft day, and even now, Bush was the correct pick. This isn't accounting for future performance, because you never know that, but as of RIGHT NOW and at the draft, Bush was the best possible pick to make except for maybe Vince Young. The fact that the Texans passed up on both of them can be grouped into one category I guess.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 2:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/27/2006 2:24:22 PM

Mario hasn't produced? He's gotten tackles and pressure

If your only definition of "producing" in a game for a DE is sacks, I fail to see how you wouldnt have an equally narrowminded definition of a RB "producing" only equating to TDs

btw Reggie Bush hasnt scored a TD in the NFL ever

9/27/2006 2:26:03 PM

He hasn't been booed at home either.

Advantage Bush

9/27/2006 2:27:17 PM

3 days ago he hadnt been cheered at home either

but its a good thing that fans booing and cheering is what society uses to judge the best NFL players

ps Kobe got booed in Philadelphia when he won the All Star Game MVP a couple years back...I guess that means he is a shitty basketball player

9/27/2006 2:28:40 PM

That was their first home game

Kobe hasn't played for Philly

You lose again

I'm done arguing with you, you obviously ignore the facts. I will just let Mario keep dissapointing week in and week out till you finally admit it was the wrong pick, because I guess firing the GM who drafted him, getting booed by the fans, and totally pissing them all off, and passing on a player who would bring excitment and tons of revenue to your shitty team isn't enough proof for you.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

9/27/2006 2:32:33 PM

you gotta be kidding me. you are using the fact that idiots are booing him as a reason to hate on him? if espn wasnt all over reggie bush's jockstrap, you wouldnt even know he had played a snap yet in 3 games. his most impressive play from scrimmage was in the preseason. but those idiots in the stands at texans games dont know that. they just know they didnt get that guy everybody's creamin their pants over, and it makes them sad

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 3:02 PM. Reason : .]

9/27/2006 3:01:23 PM

Bush hasn't been expected to have huge numbers yet because he is sharing time with Duece. If he was getting all the snaps you damn well better believe that he would have a TD and probably pushing 100 yards per game. "You people" need to chill out. I don't think anyone is saying that Mario sucks... just that he wasn't a good choice as #1.

If you need proof.. here are the rookie defensive stats...

Tackles No.
1. D. Ryans HOU 30
2. E. Sims DET 27
3. K. Ellison BUF 22
4. D. Jackson CLE 20
5. A. Hawk GB 20

Sacks No.
1. D. Tapp SEA 2
2. M. Lawson SF 2
3. M. Anderson CHI 1.5
4. K. Simpson BUF 1
5. K. Wimbley CLE 1

Mario has 8 tackles and 0 sacks in three games.

Now compare that to Reggie Bush (sharing time with duece & returning punts)

Rushing Yds
1. L. Maroney NE 169
2. R. Bush NO 125
3. J. Addai IND 123
4. M. Jones-Drew JAC 115
5. M. Bell DEN 114

Receptions No.
1. R. Bush NO 19
2. M. Colston NO 15
3. G. Jennings GB 10
4. J. Addai IND 8
5. M. Jones-Drew JAC 6

This is just comparing rookies since we are debating the 2006 draft. Obviously Bush should have been #1.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 3:43 PM. Reason : ]

9/27/2006 3:42:16 PM

Wow, great stats. That pretty much owns anything anyone is trying to say about Mario so far.

So...once again


Bush 3
Mario 0

9/27/2006 3:44:57 PM

Linebackers always lead D-Linemen in tackles.

Sacks are such a low number it is not a statistically significant comparison until after a number of games. Additionally, Mario has seen more double teams than the sack leaders. He also doesn't have another threat on the line (part of why he sees double teams), unlike Tapp, Lawson, Anderson, etc.

9/27/2006 3:59:49 PM

but... but... but..... .......... Mario's better.....

People... what is so bad about saying "maybe Mario should have been #5 and not #1. Does it decrease your self worth if our school didn't really have the best player in the draft?

Also if your arguement is DL .. There are 30 defensive linemen in the NFL with more tackles than Mario. There are two DL's on his own team with more tackles.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

9/27/2006 4:02:06 PM

i have no problem with someone sayin bush shoulda been taken #1. what i dont like is people sayin the texans made a bad decision based off 3 games, and people implying that mario is a bust based on the first 3 games. the texans drafted off a need, and it could very well end up being an excellent decision when we look back on it in 3 years. if you wanna say bush - 3, mario - 0, whatever, go for it. but criticizing the texans at this point is retarded, and using idiotic fans' reactions is even moreso.

^defensive lineman production is based more of technique than raw ability. its the raw ability that made GM's salivate over mario. they can teach him technique. then the raw ability will take over. give him time to learn that technique, cause he hasnt had to yet to this point.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 4:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/27/2006 4:25:55 PM

Maybe Mario should have been taken #2 or #3

MAYBE Bush should also have been taken #2 or #3

Bush CLEARLY hasn't been the best rookie so far, and if you think he has you should take off the espn glasses.

9/27/2006 4:35:08 PM

THATS NOT THE POINT OF THIS FUCKING THREAD!!!


AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFT BUSH WAS THE BETTER PICK!!!

9/27/2006 4:48:19 PM

I have no interest in debating who was the better pick out of Mario Williams and Reggie Bush. Time will tell. But I am a little tired of hearing the Reggie Bush bashing. To all the Reggie Bush haters out there (and by "all" and "out there" I mean "here" and "at NC State"): If Reggie Bush's season is nothing but drawing extraordinary attention from defenses, never allowing him to personally score a point or gain a yard, but he opens up the field for Joe Horn, Marques Colston, and Deuce McAllister, and the rest of the Saints' offense, then he's been a success. If you're going to argue that a defensive lineman's impact isn't just measured in stats, then neither should a running back's. At some point in his career, he will have to do something else, but at this point, he's doing everything the Saints could want of him, and New Orleans is 3-0.

Honestly, after watching the Saints play this year, I think if I put on khaki pants, a number 25 Saints jersey, and one of those Down-Syndrome helmets, and did sumersaults onto the field, 3 guys would cover me just to be safe.

Sorry for getting off-topic. Please don't ban me.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 5:03 PM. Reason : cuz]

9/27/2006 5:02:34 PM

So Mario isn't drawing the attention of offenses?

9/27/2006 5:05:49 PM

Quote :

" Rushing Yds 1. L. Maroney NE 169 2. R. Bush NO 125 3. J. Addai IND 123 4. M. Jones-Drew JAC 115 5. M. Bell DEN 114 Receptions No. 1. R. Bush NO 19 2. M. Colston NO 15 3. G. Jennings GB 10 4. J. Addai IND 8 5. M. Jones-Drew JAC 6 "

Way to hand-pick your stats, dipshit. Why # of receptions and not recieving yards? Oh, thats right, because Bush isn't at the top in that category since he averages like 5 yards per catch.

9/27/2006 5:07:40 PM

^^He didnt say that.

Please try and keep up.

9/27/2006 5:08:13 PM

Quote :

"Way to hand-pick your stats, dipshit. Why # of receptions and not recieving yards? Oh, thats right, because Bush isn't at the top in that category since he averages like 5 yards per catch."

First of all FU..... What category is Mario leading the rookies in? Second... Why in the hell would a running back lead the league in receiving yards?? And for the record.. here are the leading rookies in receiving yards...

Receiving Yds
1. M. Colston NO 204
2. G. Jennings GB 173
3. R. Bush NO 139
4. L. Maroney NE 61
5. J. Addai IND 57

Lets see... 139/19 = 7.3 so you didn't even have that right. Now STFU and do your homework bitch!

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 5:21 PM. Reason : ]

9/27/2006 5:20:43 PM

OWNED

9/27/2006 5:27:46 PM

Bush doesn't lead the rookies in tackles or field goals made.. so maybe he has a point.

Back to the receiving stats... Bush is 3rd in the NFL among ALL running backs (not just rookies) in receiving yards per game and 2nd in total receiving yards.

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 5:47 PM. Reason : ]

9/27/2006 5:29:42 PM

Quote :

"What category is Mario leading the rookies in?"

Double teams drawn.

Too bad the rest of Houston's defenders are too sorry for that to make a difference

[Edited on September 27, 2006 at 7:38 PM. Reason : ]

9/27/2006 7:38:16 PM

Thats another one of my major points. Houston is going to suck ass for many years to come. So why pass up on Bush or even Vince, 2 players who are badass, and bring excitment and fan interest to your team, not to mention this shit tons of money you are going to make off of them. Thats why you choose one of them and not Mario. If you are going to suck anyway, choose the player thats going to help your team in every single category except wins.

9/27/2006 8:16:45 PM

Quote :

"Double teams drawn."

I would like to see proof of this actually. I kind of doubt that if Kubiak is calling out Williams, he's not going to be doing so to a rookie who's being double teamed.

9/27/2006 8:26:43 PM

I still think the biggest thing dealing with Mario is the guy who drafted him GOT FIRED not long after. Its hard to say its not a bad pick, when they guy who actually picked him got canned not long after.

9/27/2006 11:07:36 PM

it would be nice to see a "top 5" for double teams drawn, but i assume there isnt one.
would a double team equate to a sack or a touchdown for bush?

9/27/2006 11:20:29 PM

A double team would equate to a successful distraction of the defense, that resulted in another offensive player making a big play.

Such as the reverse against the Falcons.

9/27/2006 11:49:16 PM

Quote :

"Double teams drawn. Too bad the rest of Houston's defenders are too sorry for that to make a difference"

In every damn highlight they show Mario is doubled up. Are you guys watching the same ESPN?

9/27/2006 11:52:15 PM

Yes, I am, and the only thing they mention about Mario is about what a letdown he is so far. Other than that, and the boos, I suppose he is doing just fine for the #1 pick. Oh did I mention that the GM who drafted him got fired before the season even started?!?!


^btw, what fucking ESPN channel are you watching where there are "highlights" from the Texans? They don't exist this so far this year.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 12:21 AM. Reason : .]

9/28/2006 12:20:06 AM

You have said that over and over.

The plan was already in place for him to step down.

Michael Smith and Jay Mariotti both said they would still take Mario 1st now.

^Umm the ones they showed on Cold Pizza this morning and ATH when they were talking about this issue.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 12:22 AM. Reason : ^]

9/28/2006 12:21:44 AM

They would take Mairo 1st, who isnt even leading his team in tackles or sacks, over Reggie or Vince? Riiiihgt, show me some documented shit on that, because we all now they both aren't that stupid.

Quote :

"The plan was already in place for him to step down."

wrong!! He got fired.

Honestly guys, are most of you so fucking obsessed with NCSU and Mario that its that hard for you to just admit he shouldn't have been the #1 pick? There are mounds of evidence that show he shouldn't have, and all you can seem to say is "Well oh yeah!!! Bush sucks!" or "Well Bush hasn't done anything!!!" "How many TDs does Bush have?" "Mario is just slow to start!" Im sorry, but when you are the #1 pick, and you get chosen over players who your entire home city wants before you, and have done shit tons more in college than you have.... you better find a fucking way to game up by the 3rd game atleast.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 12:27 AM. Reason : .]

9/28/2006 12:23:13 AM

Umm all you have to fucking do is ask anyone who watched ATH today.

Michael Smith was ANGRY about them saying Mario was a bust.

V Um Jay Mariotti agreed as well dumbfuck. Woody had no real say in the matter.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 12:30 AM. Reason : V]

9/28/2006 12:25:51 AM

One person out of 4 is harldy proving your point. And if you only mention him, that tells me the other 3 went the other way. So thanks for helping me out.

9/28/2006 12:28:56 AM

Lol, smith was PISSED at cowlishaw for saying he thought Mario was a bad pick, he kept bringing it up even after that topic was over.

9/28/2006 12:29:14 AM

I have it Tivo'd and am replaying it RIGHT now, so far, the first thing is "not so super" and thats a quote form the Texans head coach!

"He's done some good things, but not this week, he knows I am dissapointed in his play"

Woody just said "If they had to do it over again, of course they would take Bush or Young"

Cowlishaw "Woody is right, thats a bad pick, don't blame Mario for not being Reggie Bush"

And then Mariotti just comapred the pick to Bowie over Jordan!!!! and called Mario a bust already.

So the fact that 1 out of 4 saying Mairo is a great pick is enough for you?




Once again, pretty much EVERYONE who has ANYTHING to do with the NFL says Mario was a terrible pick. What else is it going to take before you agree?


[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 12:39 AM. Reason : .]

9/28/2006 12:30:46 AM

btw, he had no sacks in the 3 previous preseason games too.

6 games in a row, and no sacks, I am sorry, but the #1 pick, who nobody wanted, needs to have a sack in 6 games.


I actually agree with ATH on something.....Its not Marios fault that he is in this position. He is a good player and I will admit that, but he is not a #1 overall player. If he had gone out of the top 3 he would have a good career wherever he ended up, but as of now, he will NEVER live up to the pick he was. He will have to be one of the best defensive players EVER to make it a good pick, and so far, he is way way way far off from that.

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 1:14 AM. Reason : .]

9/28/2006 1:13:53 AM

either that or, GASP, reggie bush doesnt end up being the NFL God everyone is hyping him up to be. why is that not an option?

9/28/2006 1:23:22 AM

Because on draft day....Bush and Young were a better choice than Mario.

9/28/2006 2:30:02 AM

^are you ever going to shut the fuck up? the only purpose you're serving is annoying the everliving shit out of people. you've just repeated yourself for 7 pages. honestly, all i've heard from the first post was "whaaaa." give it a rest.

9/28/2006 2:42:49 AM

all i'm sayin is that in all these discussions of whether the texans made a mistake or should mario have not gone #1, the one constant is the assumption that reggie bush will be worth the #1. i can certainly understand why he would be #1, but there have been highly touted #1's that were flops, and he hasnt set the field on fire yet, so i dont understand why he gets the benefit of the doubt and gets to be the constant in the equation. its very possible that in 3 years, the only person anyone even remembers from this draft is a dark horse like jay cutler or somethin. WE DONT KNOW YET. ALL OF THIS IS RETARDED. THE NFL SEASON IS 3 GAMES OLD.

9/28/2006 2:46:09 AM

^The ONLY way the picks turns out to be good is if Mario turns out to be a top defensive lineman in the NFL AND Reggie busts. If they both turn out to be busts, then the Texans should have chosen either Bush or Young to get the surge of fan support. But seriously... given what you have seen from Bush do you really think nobody will remember him in three years? The guy is making a difference right now and sharing time with another player. Please someone explain to me why you guys are fighting so hard to justify the pick when the answer seems so obvious. If Mario was picked 5th in the draft, would we be less proud of him or his connection to NC State?

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 4:44 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 4:47 AM. Reason : ]

9/28/2006 4:43:37 AM

i'm not tryin to justify the pick. i'm sayin give the dude more than 3 games before you start labelin busts and bad picks.

9/28/2006 8:16:21 AM

I would take Jones-Drew over Bush right now....that guy was killin' for the Jags in Indy last week. I'd put money on him having a much better season than Bush right now. I love little scat-backs with power to boot.

9/28/2006 8:45:31 AM

Quote :

"Because on draft day....Bush and Young were a better choice than Mario. "

AND LET ME TELL YOU HOW WELL VINCE YOUNG IS PLAYING



[Edited on September 28, 2006 at 9:08 AM. Reason : MER]

9/28/2006 9:07:49 AM

Quote :

"ps Kobe got booed in Philadelphia when he won the All Star Game MVP a couple years back...I guess that means he is a shitty basketball player"

Quote :

"Kobe hasn't played for Philly You lose again"

he's from Philly you dumb dick nigger...the fact you are so "certain" about anything in the NFL after 3 games just shows you dont know shit about football except what ESPN nuts down your throat

9/28/2006 9:52:17 AM

No shit he is from there, but when is the last time he played for the 76ers you fucking idiot? There is a difference in being from somewhere and playing for a team in that city.

9/28/2006 10:40:17 AM

and there is a difference in reading, and doing whatever the hell you do

9/28/2006 10:59:19 AM

haha, you're just pissed that you got owned, but you should be used to it by page 7 I guess

9/28/2006 11:03:08 AM