Me and my friend have been debating this for months. Both have pretty good live shows. Haley seems to have the better voice but Lacey and the band have better background stories/more interesting. Flyleaf also seems to have the better instrumental talent and lyrical content while Paramore is more of a catchy, feel good sound. I love them both and can't figure out which is better. I know Paramore has more fans and got a huge vault from Twilight. Both have the christian following but Paramore seems to have more of the tweens (even before twilight). What do you guys think?

The sounds are pretty cool as well.

6/14/2009 11:20:54 PM

hmm.

6/14/2009 11:23:51 PM

^ #1 Twilight Fan.

6/14/2009 11:26:54 PM

wat

6/14/2009 11:29:22 PM

Shit Sandwich v. Turd Burger

6/14/2009 11:32:34 PM

flyleaf vocals are better than paramore vocals imo.

6/15/2009 12:15:30 AM

i only know of one song by flyleaf "fully alive".

interesting.

6/15/2009 12:19:23 AM

The Paramore bitch surrounds herself with faggots.

The Flyleaf bitch looks like she's gang banged by her bandmates.

I hope that helps a little in this discussion.

6/15/2009 12:28:17 AM

i don't even know what to say

6/15/2009 12:28:44 AM

Although I've never seen paramore live, I like that girls voice over the flyleaf girl. With that said, I also think that flyleaf's band is more entertaining than paramore's, and i pretty much agree with the OP




and holy crap you have a snake on your shoulder! AHHHHHH!!!

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 12:42 AM. Reason : !!!]

6/15/2009 12:41:32 AM

theyre both overproduced, boring bands to me. if i absolutely had to listen to one i guess itd be paramore

6/15/2009 1:22:15 AM

listen to melissa auf der maur

6/15/2009 1:25:51 AM

the sounds

6/15/2009 1:32:43 AM

PAVEMENT

6/15/2009 5:40:26 AM

Wait, what?

Is this real?

What?

6/15/2009 11:01:38 AM

i've never seen either live, and i've only heard 1 flyleaf song, but flyleaf = whiney & annoying = no like

6/15/2009 11:18:45 AM

This thread is now about the relative merits of taking the Alchemist feat instead of the Ritual Caster feat in D&D 4th Edition.

At first glance, why would anyone bother practicing alchemy? The component costs for alchemical items aren't appreciably cheaper than casting most rituals of comparable utility.

BUT! It is, like, way more cheaper for you to create an alchemical potion, for example, that is usable by anyone than it is to create a ritual scroll usable by anyone.

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason : THINK ABOUT IT]

6/15/2009 11:19:51 AM

See those feats both require a ton of money if you want to get anything worth a damn, so if your campaign doesnt have alot of loot or if you're low level its best to just hold off imo.

4th edition is so goddamned easy to play, but some of the shit is just ri-god-damned-diculous. Heh u have lock picking? 30 DC to pick the lock on a portal!

Also 2nd edition alignments are way better imo.

6/15/2009 11:24:12 AM

If your DM doesn't include rituals and alchemical formulae in the treasure you come across, you're getting screwed.

Anyway, don't threadcrap! We're examining Alchemist vs. Ritual Caster, not whether either feat is any good. I have strong feelings about framing your portal example as a skill challenge, and we can discuss that in another thread!

6/15/2009 11:27:05 AM

Well see im in a planescape campaign and we're doing 2nd edition lore, alignment, and other stuff. The DM ruled that picking the lock on portals was dumb as hell (and rightly so) which makes ritual casting more valuable in the event that it takes more than a simple key to get through the portal. tbqh i really dont care too much about it since I'm a ret paladin (assault Sword Mage)


[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM. Reason : f]

6/15/2009 11:52:09 AM

I'm not real familiar with Planescape. Can't portals be locked unless you speak a password or carrying a live chicken or some shit? I wouldn't be inclined to allow Thievery in the first place, unless there were some physical component to the lock.

For example, an adamantine wall bars passage unless you successfully make the secret sign of the Six-Fingered Order inside of a niche on the face of the wall. I'd allow an Arcana check at a hard DC for anyone without six fingers, but a successful Thievery check at a moderate DC would grant +2 to that Arcana check as the rogue (or whoever) studies the mechanism and determines which pins and tumblers fall first in the sequence, etc.

And if either check fails, it triggers the inevitable horrible trap.

6/15/2009 12:27:00 PM

If you aren't familiar with the planescape universe (and i wasn't up until this campaign) essentially there are an infinite number of planes that make up the universe and each follows a general theme. For example there are planes of fire planes of water planes of air, etc.... all the gods in DnD live in their own planes. The standard DnD gameworld is considered a Material Plane. Any character that comes from a Material Plane considers their plane the Prime material plane.

Travel between planes is done through portals. To travel through a portal you need the key specific to that portal. This can be something as simple as a certain object or as complex as a ritual that must be performed in a precise manner at a specific time. Its essentially a mechanism for the DM to control progress of the campaign, but at the same time allow individual character abilities to possibly have great influence. This is why being able to lock pick a portal is so unbalanced.

You pretty much guessed right though. theres nothing to physically pick and in your example I would agree that a physical trap with arcane attributes would work as you describe.

6/15/2009 12:40:26 PM

can I be chaotic good still? or a monster class!?

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 12:42 PM. Reason : i roll 20s]

6/15/2009 12:40:44 PM

Right now our campaign has a bunch of lawful goods, neutral goods, and lawful neutral primes (people from the material planes). My character is a chaotic neutral Githyanki (traditionally neutral evil) from the Astral Plane. Githyanki are basically space pirates that go around stealing magic loot for their evil lich queen. Its fun cause my character clashes alot with the other party members, and its fun to be a dick to the certain players who take the lawful/good shit so seriously irl.

Planescape seriously owns cause theres alot more variety in story, characters, and gameplay, but it requires a good DM to pull it off. Ours is pretty good.

6/15/2009 12:43:43 PM

Quote :

"can I be chaotic good still? or a monster class!? "

I dont know if theres chaotic good in 4th edition. We threw out the 4th edition alignment rules and just used 2nd edition. As for monster class, thats what i am and it owns.

pro tip: the official character creator is worth the $$

6/15/2009 12:44:58 PM

Alignment in 4E has been changed up a little. Here's the PHB's summary:

Quote :

"ALIGNMENT A character's alignment (or lack thereof) describes his or her moral stance: ? Good: Freedom and kindness. ? Lawful Good: Civilization and order. ? Evil: Tyranny and hatred. ? Chaotic Evil: Entropy and destruction. ? Unaligned: Having no alignment; not taking a stand."

As for monster classes, none of that just yet. The Monster Manual and a couple of other sources have racial traits if you want to play a monster with a heroic class, though they generally aren't supported with racial feats, racial paragon paths, or any of the other neat shit the PC races get. Some of the monsters have been promoted to full PC races, though, and more are on the way (e.g. half-orcs and shifters were in PHB2, minotaurs are on the way in PHB3).

6/15/2009 12:49:37 PM

yea if I play, its with friends who use 3.5 ruleset I believe. I just loved being able to punish the dick of a caster in our group that would use AE spells while I'm next to a monster swinging away(yay for cleave linkage).

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason : spleling]

6/15/2009 12:51:10 PM

[Edited on June 15, 2009 at 12:52 PM. Reason : ]

6/15/2009 12:51:52 PM

I'm kind of proud that absolutely nothing in thread makes any sense to me.

6/15/2009 12:52:14 PM

we are talking about flyleaf and paramore dawg.

6/15/2009 12:52:28 PM

Whatever those things are, you may as well be speaking Zulu.

6/15/2009 12:53:16 PM

Quote :

"yea if I play, its with friends who use 3.5 ruleset I believe. I just loved being able to punish the dick of a caster in our group that would use AE spells while I'm next to a monster swinging away(yea for cleave linkage)."

its me, im the dick caster in this post

6/15/2009 12:53:28 PM

*casts dicks at this thread*

6/15/2009 12:53:50 PM

Flyleaf is a level 7 alchemical item that grants you fly 5 (clumsy) until the end of your next turn. Paramore is an arcanists' commune in Fallcrest.

6/15/2009 12:53:55 PM

Oh, my bad, I was looking for a thread with tittyballs in it. Carry on.

6/15/2009 12:56:55 PM

Quote :

"*casts dicks at this thread* "

LOL

6/15/2009 1:01:27 PM

DICK-CASTING IS A RECHARGE POWER LOL

6/15/2009 1:05:00 PM

Quote :

"DICK-CASTING IS A RECHARGE POWER LOL "

CANT GET IT UP; KEEP ROLLING 1s

6/15/2009 1:08:32 PM

maybe it only recharges when a grabbed enemy is bloodied

6/15/2009 1:12:13 PM

hahahaha

6/15/2009 1:18:18 PM

VS.

6/15/2009 2:08:25 PM

^ What do girls have to do with D&D?

6/15/2009 2:13:33 PM

Don't know who Flyleaf is. But would like to bang the lead singer of Paramore. That's all I have to contribute.

6/15/2009 2:14:04 PM

Fake redhead looks like a half-elf sorceress. Darky McSharpietattoo looks like a halfling rogue. Cet. par., the rogue's got it all over the sorceress if she's got combat advantage.

6/15/2009 2:25:18 PM

Quote :

" VS. "

successful recharge

6/15/2009 2:26:29 PM

^^nah dawg, gotta CC up in that bitch.

6/15/2009 2:36:43 PM

do what now

6/15/2009 2:41:40 PM

haley would get it

6/15/2009 3:55:44 PM

Quote :

"^^nah dawg, gotta CC up in that bitch."

hmm maybe some sort of crowd control or charm skill? something probably from an enchanter class, and wtf people stop trying to derail our DnD thread!

6/15/2009 4:12:00 PM

Yeah, I figured "crowd control" since most of the rogue's opportunities to gain combat advantage depending on flanking. But in a straight one-on-one fight, that ain't the kind of combat advantage the rogue would be going for, and I don't know that a sorcerer--a striker, mind you--could dish up much crowd control anyway.

6/15/2009 4:17:22 PM