Like one's taste in food, taste in music, taste in fashion, etc.

Are these choices that one makes?
Or are our tastes not within our control?


I used to hate a lot of vegetables, but then I "decided" to like them. And now I do.
Was this inevitable?

I used to hate country music, and I still do, despite trying to like it.
Will I ever like it?

If you aren't exposed to certain fashion/food/music, how would you ever like them?
But then again, aren't most of us exposed to most all of what's out there?
Why, then, do we end up liking what we do?

11/12/2010 5:53:26 PM

k

11/12/2010 5:53:43 PM

Is sexual preference a choice?

Like one's preference for men, girls, trannies, etc.

Are these choices that one makes?
Or are our preferences not within our control?


I used to hate a lot of black women, but then I "decided" to like them. And now I do.
Was this inevitable?

I used to hate fat chicks, and I still do, despite trying to like it.
Will I ever like it?

If you aren't exposed to certain lifestyles, how would you ever like them?
But then again, aren't most of us exposed to most all of what's out there?
Why, then, do we end up liking what we do?

11/12/2010 5:56:44 PM

^
I would put "sexual preference" in the category of one's taste, as in body type, skin color, etc (or genitalia for bisexuals)
Whether or not sexuality is a choice is a topic for another thread.

But yeah, if you've seen your friend dating fat chicks, and loving it, and you think, "I am not attracted to fat chicks, but why? My friend seems to like it... Am I missing something? Will I ever be attracted to fat chicks?" etc.

11/12/2010 6:02:19 PM

The things we initially cling to and pick up on?
Not really choice-y. Especially when it comes to music... for example, you have very little control over whether or not something you hear gets stuck in your head.

Can tastes be acquired, intentionally, through repeated eating/listening/viewing/whatever?
Absolutely yes.

Can we make a conscious effort to avoid liking something that may immediately catch our attention or seem appealing at first glance (or, say, seem catchy and get stuck in our head)?
Absolutely yes.



It seems like what you're asking has less to do with the nature of "taste" than it does the nature of choice/free will and whether or not it exists.

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 6:08 PM. Reason : given the above posts, I'd put sexual attraction in a totally different category from art and media.]

11/12/2010 6:02:59 PM

Quote :

"Can tastes be acquired, intentionally, through repeated eating/listening/viewing/whatever? Absolutely yes. "

very very true

at least ive caught myself doing it

11/12/2010 6:06:56 PM

Think of a food you used to hate, but you now love.

Why?

Quote :

"Can we make a conscious effort to avoid liking something that may immediately catch our attention or seem appealing at first glance (or, say, seem catchy and get stuck in our head)? Absolutely yes."

Or...
Can we make an unknowing subconscious effort to avoid liking something that is "worth" liking?

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ]

11/12/2010 6:07:26 PM

I don't know. I hated lots of things as a kid, like eggs, onions, mayo, etc. Now I like those things, and I never really "decided" to like them.

11/12/2010 6:07:26 PM

Quote :

"Can we make an unknowing subconscious effort to avoid liking something that is "worth" likiing?"

I'd consider the phrase "subconscious effort" to be something of an oxymoron, so no. In the sense of liking or disliking something, "effort" implies intent.


...But if you're asking if someone with with "bad" taste can dislike something "good" for seemingly no reason or without knowing their reason? Yeah, sure they can. But the fact that they don't have a reason to dislike it means that they probably haven't put much effort or conscious thought into why they dislike it, and they're just sticking to their initial judgement.

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 6:17 PM. Reason : .]

11/12/2010 6:10:35 PM

Quote :

"Think of a food you used to hate, but you now love. Why?"

that usually has to do with senses changing (usually dulling) as we age out of childhood.

11/12/2010 6:14:37 PM

Quote :

"I'd consider the phrase "subconscious effort" to be something of an oxymoron, so no."

Why? Your subconscious mind is capable of effort and intent, isn't it?

Quote :

"In the sense of liking or disliking something, "effort" implies intent."

That's sort of the point of the thread. Does taste require intent? AndyMac used to hate eggs, onions, and mayo, but now he likes those things despite no intent to like them.


^
Does that happen with other things? Like our taste in music?

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 6:16 PM. Reason : ]

11/12/2010 6:15:08 PM

well if you think about it in a food sense:

sour is caused by hydrogen ions
saltiness by anions and cations (simultaneous presence)
bitter is alkaloids
sweet is polyglycols (iirc)

your tastebuds sense this and act accordingly.
you are inherently born with a set of sensory nerves that react to that reaction, and no two people will have the same nerves.

now....you can "train" your tastebuds to like and not like certain things (think of people who love spicy foods...which spicy isnt a flavor, it's actually simply pain in your mouth).

having said all of this i bet that this can cross over into other "tastes" as well.

ie the impulses that come from sounds. or visual stimulation.




and what i mean by "train" is overstimulation to the point where its relatively commonplace and you realize that the taste will not "hurt" you......


[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 6:21 PM. Reason : speaking of. i need to go study some sympathetic nerves. ]

11/12/2010 6:17:09 PM

Quote :

"Why? Your subconscious mind is capable of effort and intent, isn't it?"

It's capable of making you do stuff, sure. Physical effort can come from the subconscious (see: when people say they felt like their brain was on "autopilot", that sort of thing), but when considering mental effort, just going along with initial subconscious feelings requires no thought... and in that sense, thought = effort.

It's worth noting, however, that if you don't believe in free will/choice, there's effectively little difference between the subconscious and the conscious in the sense that the actions and thoughts of both are outside your control. (for the record, I believe in free will to some extent) (also, it feels like posting this is going to somehow summon McDanger into the thread)

Quote :

"That's sort of the point of the thread. Does taste require intent?"

It doesn't require intent, but it can be altered by intent.

A gut reaction to something can be accepted without thought/effort/intent, or it can be consciously rejected by further thought, consciously affirmed by further thought, or otherwise consciously altered by further thought. In many cases you might still feel that same gut reaction, but the point is that your conscious mind can agree or disagree with that reaction, and that's where the choice/effort/intent comes in.

Though that's also not to say that conscious thought/intent/effort is required for tastes to change... a gut/initial reaction to something can also change over time, as joie mentioned. Though in addition to abilities and physical senses dulling over time, there's probably a component of social influence as well (not necessarily with food, but "taste" is a broad subject).


All that said, with regards to art/entertainment/media, especially music, there's a lot that we really just don't know for sure. Science hasn't reached many conclusions on the relationship between music and the brain and thought, particularly why we react to certain music the way we do. Though if you're really interested in the subject, I recommend picking up "This is Your Brain on Music" by Daniel Levitin. I'm still reading through it at the moment and it's quite good.

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 6:43 PM. Reason : sadly, I must now leave this thread to prepare for my attendance at a musical event.]

11/12/2010 6:32:46 PM

Immediate thought:



In all seriousness, I think they're choices we make subconsciously that can be altered (style in particular, and you can make yourself like foods and things).

[Edited on November 12, 2010 at 8:19 PM. Reason : fuck a parody thread]

11/12/2010 8:17:59 PM

ITT the soapbox attempts to escape its confines.

11/13/2010 2:28:16 AM

^
Nah...
The Soap Box doesn't allow speculation or conjecture --- just partisan bickering and trolling.

In this thread, we actually discuss something.


^^
The parody was already done, lol.

Quote :

"In all seriousness, I think they're choices we make subconsciously that can be altered (style in particular, and you can make yourself like foods and things)."

So, taste is a choice, but it's a subconscious one?

11/13/2010 8:35:51 AM

My classmate was telling me about a documentary he saw where this lady said she could only eat fries and that was the only taste she liked (literally)... I think they sequenced her genome and were actually kinda surprised at the results - apparently she had some crazy different sequence for taste receptors



So I don't know, Willy Nilly. Maybe look up that documentary?

11/13/2010 8:54:52 AM

Quote :

"I used to hate a lot of vegetables, but then I "decided" to like them. And now I do. Was this inevitable?"

Depends on what you mean by "inevitable". How many facts about the world are you allowing to vary?

I don't think we have choice in any conventional, intuitive sense. Not free choice, at least. Our choices are determined and couldn't change without either different material conditions (for a different choice/thought) or without a noisy event occuring (some stochastic change in the brain-computar)

11/13/2010 9:42:06 AM

Quote :

"I used to hate country music, and I still do, despite trying to like it. Will I ever like it? "

Try some badass "real" country like Merle Haggard. You might still not like it, but it's at least respectable as art.

11/13/2010 11:02:07 AM

Quote :

"(for the record, I believe in free will to some extent) (also, it feels like posting this is going to somehow summon McDanger into the thread)"

rofl just noticed this

11/17/2010 6:12:38 PM

It's not a choice, it's genetic

11/17/2010 7:03:02 PM

I like the idea of summoning McDanger like he's a FF elemental

11/17/2010 8:49:19 PM

some are, some aren't.

11/17/2010 8:55:52 PM

We have free will only in the sense that it seems we control our actions. Everything in the universe acts exactly as physics dictates, and if you're a materialist, that must apply to human behavior. If we could model everything going on around us, we could predict human behavior. Our most accurate models of human behavior are on the aggregate, which makes sense if you know anything about statistics. What even the best models cannot predict are when, and how fast, human behavior will adapt to environment, and how that interaction will effect behavior patterns.

It probably helps to separate "bad taste" from food that kind of feels weird in your mouth and you haven't tried it more than once if at all but you just don't want to try it because it looks gross. I'm convinced that some people have aversions to many foods that they would enjoy if it were prepared correctly. Then there are foods that really do have a repulsive taste. For me, those things are mustard, celery, and black licorice. I've tried all of those things, many many times since I was a child. They're still awful.

11/17/2010 9:15:43 PM

Oh, I never answered your question. I think that we have some tastes that are just instinctual or visceral reactions. Often, those tastes don't change. Some things you build up a tolerance for that becomes enjoyment, and your tastes swing that way. Sometimes your tastes are determined by what others think is cool, and (for example) when something goes out of style, you either continue to like it or move on. I don't think that most people consciously say "I am going to like this," they just do or don't. And that can change.

11/17/2010 9:16:31 PM

i read in a science magazine, probably discover, that if you try a food that you don't like 10 times...actually make an effort to eat some of it each time (not just a microscopic bite), that you'll learn to like it. they recommended doing it w/ kids & vegetables. i like very few vegetables so i tried this first w/ broccoli, & it worked. i actually really like it now. i've done the same with asparagus (my FAVORITE vegetable now) & carrots.

11/17/2010 9:35:02 PM

Worked for me, I will eat anything, and enjoy pretty much all vegetables. My parents were adament on forcing us to eat our food, I used to hate it but it def made all the difference. Depending on when you started drinking, most people probably aquired a taste for beer/wine.

11/17/2010 10:27:13 PM

Taste, like any trait, can be attributed to a combination of your genetics and environment.

11/17/2010 10:28:24 PM

Yes, for instance If I work out everday and get very strong, those genes are passed on to my children

11/17/2010 10:57:30 PM