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 Message Boards » » Did you know Raleigh adds medication to the Water? Page 1 ... 9 10 11 12 [13], Prev  
JCE2011
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thegoldenrul.

debate me

2/5/2017 8:22:15 PM

thegoldenrul
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I like JCE's idea - I'll debate anyone on this thread even an MD, PHD. Irrelevant.

We can do it over Skype. Email me if you're serious. thegldnrule@gmail.com

2/5/2017 9:50:06 PM

dtownral
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"he" is an algorithm, "he" is not a human

2/5/2017 10:31:59 PM

parsonsb
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Purity of Essence
e
a
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e

o
n

E
a
r
t
h

2/6/2017 1:29:43 AM

rwoody
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Lol, ssclark restarted a 3 yr old argument with a crazy person/bot/troll.

2/6/2017 11:14:42 AM

ssclark
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Meh i get worked up about this shit. I see many sick children because of lunacy like this. I'll admit i got triggered.

and i blame nighthawk and wolfmarsh

2/6/2017 12:00:59 PM

Bullet
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I was afraid something happened to thegoldenrul since he hadn't updated his website in a couple years

https://bullcitybulletin.com/

2/6/2017 12:08:04 PM

Nighthawk
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I'm just happy I have flouride free water now thanks to OWASA.

BTW, my teeth all fell out. Oh well, my wife makes dentures and crowns so no big deal!

2/6/2017 2:10:53 PM

Wolfmarsh
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Quote :
"and i blame nighthawk and wolfmarsh"


I'll take the blame gladly. thegoldenrul's idiotic psuedo-science needs to be stomped out of existence.

2/6/2017 2:20:04 PM

Nighthawk
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^I think its funny when even the Soapbox crew all agree on this. Folks who can't agree on a damn thing can find common ground to come together and say that this is pretty ridiculous.

[Edited on February 6, 2017 at 2:28 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2017 2:28:12 PM

Klatypus
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I don't blindly agree with fluoride in public waters, there are plenty of first world countries that do not fluoridate their water, but there is zero chance of reversal of this in the US because our immune systems probably wouldn't be able to handle the change.

2/6/2017 2:42:44 PM

JCE2011
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thegoldenrul can you please summarize whatever your argument is into a concise thesis? The older posts seem to be all over the place and half of the links have expired.

2/7/2017 9:29:55 AM

Klatypus
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don't do it, it's a trap

2/7/2017 9:40:54 AM

GoldieO
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Never commented in these type threads before, but here I go. This recent OWASA fluoride overfeed was referenced at a local event last night so I went to http://www.owasa.org/ to get more information. They're stating, "Due to the fluoride overfeed, OWASA shut down the treatment plant. The water with a high level of fluoride was contained within the treatment plant and did not reach the pipe system which carries water to OWASA customers."

So if the high level fluoride water was contained within the treatment plant in Carrboro, the water line break in Chapel Hill was not related to the fluoride event. I'm curious about the argument being put forth on the last page that

Quote :
"... Fluoride as a threat to the infrastructure as well as health"


Kind of curious now if this issue will be addressed at the public meeting scheduled for this Thursday.

[Edited on February 7, 2017 at 10:52 AM. Reason : ...]

2/7/2017 10:37:17 AM

Nighthawk
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^Yes I think its far more likely that the water main break in northeastern Chapel Hill is far more likely to have been due to higher than standard water pressure from the Durham County interconnect which is probably up in that area. Older pipes that usually aren't under such strain and all of a sudden are running at full capacity = blow out.

2/7/2017 11:12:45 AM

GoldieO
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I'm not in the Raleigh area anymore so don't check WTVD regularly. I'm assuming no smoking gun news reports yet on WTVD or other area networks per the prior page?

2/7/2017 11:33:26 AM

GoldieO
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FYI - statement from OWASA just posted.

http://www.owasa.org/background-on-water-emergency

Quote :
"Background on Water Emergency
Tuesday, February 7, 2017 12:44:00 PM

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 2

On Thursday afternoon, our Jones Ferry Road Water Treatment Plant was shut down due to an overfeed of fluoride into a water tank.

To contain the fluoride overfeed within the plant, we stopped pumping water from our plant . None of the water with higher than normal fluoride reached the pipes which carry water to customers.

OWASA began receiving drinking water from the City of Durham through water system connections and asked all customers to use water wisely.

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 3

On Friday morning, a major water line break occurred on Foxcroft Drive in northeast Chapel Hill. The pipe break led to a rapid and large loss of water, and water pressure fell in some areas to very low levels. Water in our storage tanks dropped to critically low levels. We asked customers to limit use of OWASA water to essential purposes.

To protect public health and conserve water, at 11:20 AM OWASA told customers not to use OWASA water until further notice. At 2:19 PM, the Orange County Health Department issued Do Not Drink and Do Not Use directives for OWASA water.

The water line break was isolated and the loss of water was stopped around noon on Friday. A connection with Chatham County was opened Friday afternoon, bringing in a couple hundred more thousand gallons of water a day.

Work continued overnight to repair the water line and restore the Jones Ferry Road Water Treatment Plant.

SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 4

On Saturday afternoon, February 4th, the water line was repaired. Shortly before 2 PM, we completed tests showing our water was safe to drink.

The Health Department lifted the Do Not Drink/Do Not Use directives. Customers were asked to limit use of OWASA water to essential purposes.

While we worked to restart the Jones Ferry Road Water Treatment Plant and raise water storage levels, we asked customers to limit water use to essential purposes. We continued to receive water from the City of Durham and Chatham County.

On Saturday evening, the Jones Ferry Road Water Treatment resumed operation, and we stopped receiving water from Durham and Chatham County.

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 5

As of Sunday morning, all OWASA operations are normal, water storage tanks are full and normal water use is allowed.

OWASA is investigating the fluoride overfeed and water line break and has hired outside consultant for the investigation.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 9--OWASA Board meeting

Customers are invited to receive information and to comment and ask questions about the water emergency in the OWASA Board of Directors' meeting on Thursday, February 9th at 6 PM in the Chapel Hill Town Hall, 405 Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard."

2/7/2017 12:51:14 PM

thegoldenrul
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If any of you really care about the issue, you should come to the OWASA board meeting Thursday and hear me and others articulate it in real time.

Either way the videos will be televised and available online...Local news might also cover the issue.

2/7/2017 10:15:12 PM

Nighthawk
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Eh sorry. I live right near the Jones Ferry plant and I have no interest in donning a tinfoil hat and acting like a damned lunatic. Besides I already have a meeting at 6:30 to run so I'm unavailable to even go sit in and listening to you spout off about something that didn't affect you at all.

It sucked, but they corrected it as quickly as they could and were pretty good in keeping open lines of communication to everybody that was being affected. The worst inconvenience for me was having to wait until Saturday afternoon to shower.

2/7/2017 10:31:05 PM

theDuke866
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JCE vs goldenrul sounds kinda like ISIS vs Assad.

or maybe ISIS vs the judge in Idiocracy would be a more apt analogy.

[Edited on February 7, 2017 at 11:42 PM. Reason : ]

2/7/2017 11:39:16 PM

ssclark
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and he talks like a fag too...

2/8/2017 8:24:34 AM

thegoldenrul
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https://durhamagainstfluoride.com/2017/02/09/orange-county-causes-water-crisis-by-over-fluoridating-the-supply/

2/9/2017 1:12:12 AM

dtownral
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lol

OMG GUYS IT BURNS THROUGH CONCRETE, ITS HIGHLY CORROSIVE

2/9/2017 1:10:40 PM

rjrumfel
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You know what happens when you DON'T add certain chemicals to the water? You get acidic river water coming into galvanized iron pipes. The result? Toxic lead levels in your water. You don't like public works messing with your water? I hear Flint MI has a pretty laissez faire attitude towards water management.

2/9/2017 3:07:52 PM

thegoldenrul
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Really dude? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[1] North Carolina Study Concluding that chlorine (CL) or chloramines (CA) with fluosilicic acid (FSA) or sodium fluoride (NaF). CL is known to corrode brass, releasing lead from plumbing devices.

Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17697714

_________________________________________________________

[2]The effect of fluoride on corrosion of reinforcing steel in alkaline solutions

Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0010938X94900159

[3]Fluoride in Water Worsened Flint Water Crisis – http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/fluoride-in-water-worsens-us-lead-crisis-300219061.html

2/9/2017 4:44:10 PM

darkone
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^ The second paper you cite is about making reinforced concrete and has nothing to do with water fluoridation. It has to do with how wet cement reacts with steel rebar.

2/9/2017 6:44:50 PM

wdprice3
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RALEIGH ADDS MEDICINE TO OUR WATER??

TELL ME MORE

2/9/2017 7:02:57 PM

Wolfmarsh
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Quote :
"RALEIGH ADDS MEDICINE TO OUR WATER?? "


It's a shame they can't add chemicals to make people smarter.

2/10/2017 8:44:02 AM

thegoldenrul
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Do you realize that both concrete and steel are used in municipal water systems which contain fluoride? Use your fucking brain.

2/10/2017 10:01:38 AM

dtownral
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did you know that you are corrosive and will melt concrete because fluoride concrete and steel are all made of atoms and you are made of atoms? Use your fucking brain.

2/10/2017 10:24:18 AM

JCE2011
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Quote :
"If any of you really care about the issue, you should come to the OWASA board meeting Thursday and hear me and others articulate it in real time.
"


How am I supposed to care about an "issue" if you can't even provide a 5 second summary of what this thread is?

You won't be able to persuade anyone of anything if you can't articulate your argument in a concise manner.

2/10/2017 12:05:20 PM

TreeTwista10
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http://DurhamAgainstFluoride.com sounds like a very non-biased website when it comes to objective facts about water fluoridation

2/10/2017 5:21:07 PM

GoldieO
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So I went to to the ^ website looking for an update on how the Feb. 9 OWASA meeting went. Watched the top two videos - really surprised WTVD had done such an extensive piece on the issue. This is definitely not an issue I've ever spent any significant time considering, but I am now curious bc I, too, have had cavities and I've been drinking fluoride my whole life.

For the OP, who benefits from continuing fluoridation of the water supply? I always look at incentives - I would assume it's not free for water suppliers to add this chemical to the water, so why keep doing it especially if other water suppliers choose not to?

2/12/2017 8:47:11 PM

Bullet
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He's stated in the past that it benefits the fertilizer manufacturers. Hydrofluorosilicic acid is a byproduct of making fertilizer. And they need a place to dump the byproduct. So they created propaganda that it prevents cavities, the municipalities bought-into it, and started buying the waste and dumping it in the water. It's genius!

(or something like that, i don't want to speak for him)

2/13/2017 10:21:57 AM

GoldieO
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Thanks, ^ that makes sense. I really have never followed these threads so I'm sure most of this has been hashed out before. I'm still interested about the explanation for why so many water suppliers resisted fluoridation.

2/13/2017 11:31:54 AM

FroshKiller
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I realize this thread is about adding medication to the Water.... which I have not. Hear me out, maybe I can offer some insight.

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Large distributor advantages: have access to other commodities that go hand in hand with other manufacturers (poor example- grocery stores sell milk as well as cereal), get direct pricing, many locations regionally or nationally easing the shipping burden of buyers with multiple locations, personal service either customer or technical, many sales reps that are able to cover a broader territory, access to multiple manufacturers of the same commodity allowing to keep prices in check, service programs that smaller companies can't offer and direct providers can't match in price or value, and experts of many many commodities as opposed to one or a few.

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Local distributor advantages: Typically a good ol' boy setting where the seller and the buyer know each other for years (this does happen at all levels, but mostly at the local level), local folks are right down the street and can be used in emergencies, if the local guy buys at high enough volumes then there is no shipping charge to the end user, and access to both direct mfg's and large distributors.

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If you have any other questions, you can PM me. I hope this helps in the slightest!

2/13/2017 3:31:06 PM

GoldieO
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Another question for the OP that may have been addressed before - surely there have been credible studies done on this issue comparing dental hygiene rates for areas served by fluoridated water vs areas not served by fluoridated water, right? If so, what have these studies shown?

2/15/2017 9:14:14 AM

thegoldenrul
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To Goldie -

To answer your question about the studies which look at tooth decay and fluoridation, and their possible correlation and/or causation, I will paste a letter written to the Chapel Hill Town Council from one of the other activists who had appeared at the recent OWASA board meeting to demand that Chapel Hill keep the fluoride spigots off in the wake of the water emergency. This is to get you thinking about the validity of the conclusion that fluoridated communities benefited.

I am also doing this because a lot of the posters in this thread would like to make me appear as a lone crazy voice in the wilderness - the reality is actually much opposite. 90% of the people who took time out of their busy day to provide feedback to the OWASA board after the water emergency were specifically focused on the cessation of the community water fluoridation program.

By the way that included two former members of the OWASA board, but this information does not get promoted by the mainstream news channels, because they are suffering from the same government propaganda as all of us, which is why I have to edit the actual statements down and post them on my own website. Yes, it is biased AGAINST fluoride because CWF is objectively unethical and harmful in multiple ways. Anything less would be confusing and unproductive.


Letter to Nancy Oates written by Parker Emmerson in response to comments made promoting the medical benefits of community water fluoridation

Dear Nancy, Town Council, and Concerned Citizens,

I hope all is well. I wanted to reply to your email, but I didn't really know where to begin, but I thought about it, and I hope I can convince you that this truly is an issue worth public debate, though ultimately, I am certain that water fluoridation will eventually cease in Chapel Hill, and I can tell you why.

I found it odd that after such a critical emergency in the town where the entire town lost water, there was not one Town Council Member present at the OWASA board meeting of the NRTS committee last week. Furthermore, I would note that from my perspective, and I believe word for word, Teri Buckner suggested that OWASA, "cannot do any better," and I thought that that was a bad attitude. The proper attitude is, "how can we prevent this from ever happening again?"

However, there were a number of citizens who sought to comment on the situation. Out of 12 people who commented, 9 people were commenting on fluoride and the desire to have it removed from the public water supply, or simply no longer added, since they are currently not adding fluoride to the public water supply (a blessing).

I'm sorry that neither you nor any of the town council members were present at the meeting so that they could hear our comments in person. However, we will continue to give impassioned speeches on this topic, and I hope you will get to hear our logic with regard to this issue. I don't know whether or not any of you watched it on TV.

Addition of fluoride to the public water supply is a detailed issue, because of the degree of Orwellian style double-speak that has been promoted by the official narrative on the topic, but the issue is not a particularly complex one. Citizens who reject fluoride, which is defined as, specifically an, "unapproved drug," by the FDA have a right to equal treatment under the law, and OWASA/The Town of Chapel Hill is violating numerous N.C. G.S. by the practice of, "medicine," through adding fluoride to the public water supply (I can cite at least six). Fluoride is a level three health hazard, and when it hits your stomach acid, actual fluorine ions are thrown off through the reaction, and those are level 4 health hazards in the form of hydrofluoric acid. While it is a chemical reaction, understanding the reaction really only takes about a sophomore level high school education to comprehend. So when you listen to the debate on this topic, please don't think you need to depend on expert testimony to think for you, but rather, you can use your own common sense to determine that a toxic poison should not be added to the water, especially when the FDA classifies it as a drug.

For many years, it was believed that fluoride somehow benefitted public health, but philosophically, ethically, it is wrong, and recently, studies have shown that it reduces IQ in children. Also, science works two ways: deduction from known principles used to make predictions, and case study observations used to find correlations that can suggest causation, but do not always indicate such a causation beyond a reasonable doubt.

You mentioned that after adding fluoride, cavities decreased, but what you did not see is that rates of tooth brushing also increased during that period, so the reduction in tooth decay is not necessarily caused by addition of fluoride to the public water supply by any means. I would also suggest that it is not, "Big Brother's" responsibility to maintain my dental hygiene for me, but rather that this should be left up to the individual. Furthermore, it costs money to purchase the toxic waste from the fertilizer (phosphate) and aluminum mining industries, and that's money we could save.

The known principle of the idea of, “halogens,” tell us that iodine is used by the thyroid and is the, “good halogen.” The thyroid is incredibly important for maintaining how one feels and regulating the mood of an individual. Fluoride pushes out the good halogen, iodine, and takes its place in the thyroid. It is also documented that fluoride has neurological effect of pacifying one who consumes it.

I hope you will take this brief introduction to the topic into consideration and open the issue up for public debate. I also hope you will ultimately land on the proper side of this debate for the sake of your constituents, as people are growing more aware of the severity of the ethical concerns of this issue.

Thank you.

All My Best,

Parker Emmerson


For decades, the American Dental Association (ADA) has long warned that if communities end their water fluoridation programs, the rate of tooth decay will increase. In it’s “Fluoridation Facts” brochure, the ADA states:

“Dental decay can be expected to increase if water fluoridation in a community is discontinued for one year or more, even if topical products such as fluoride toothpaste and fluoride rinses are widely used.”

At the turn of the 21st century, however, a flurry of 4 published studies reported that tooth decay rates did not increase in communities that had ended fluoridation. In fact, in each of the studies, the rate of tooth decay continued to decrease.

The fact that tooth decay decreased following the end of fluoridation is consistent with the fact that tooth decay rates in all western nations have sharply declined over the past 50 years irrespective of whether the country fluoridates its water, or not.
Fluoridation Cessation Studies

1. Canada:

“The prevalence of caries decreased over time in the fluoridation-ended community while remaining unchanged in the fluoridated community.”
SOURCE: Maupome G, Clark DC, Levy SM, Berkowitz J. (2001). Patterns of dental caries following the cessation of water fluoridation. Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology 29: 37-47.

2. Finland

“The fact that no increase in caries was found in Kuopio despite discontinuation of water fluoridation and decrease in preventive procedures suggests that not all of these measures were necessary for each child.”
SOURCE: Seppa L, Karkkainen S, Hausen H. (2000). Caries Trends 1992-1998 in Two Low-Fluoride Finnish Towns Formerly with and without Fluoridation. Caries Research 34: 462-468.

3. Germany

“In contrast to the anticipated increase in dental caries following the cessation of water fluoridation in the cities Chemnitz and Plauen, a significant fall in caries prevalence was observed.”
SOURCE: Kunzel W, Fischer T, Lorenz R, Bruhmann S. (2000). Decline of caries prevalence after the cessation of water fluoridation in the former East Germany. Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology 28: 382-9.

4. Cuba

“In 1997, following the cessation of drinking water fluoridation, in contrast to an expected rise in caries prevalence, DMFT and DMFS values remained at a low level for the 6- to 9-year-olds and appeared to decrease for the 10/11-year-olds. In the 12/13-year-olds, there was a significant decrease, while the percentage of caries-free children of this age group had increased…”
SOURCE: Kunzel W, Fischer T. (2000). Caries prevalence after cessation of water fluoridation in La Salud, Cuba. Caries Research 34: 20-5.

[Edited on February 18, 2017 at 8:21 AM. Reason : Diction]

2/18/2017 8:19:30 AM

Dentaldamn
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What's your take on the situation in Flint?

2/18/2017 1:12:11 PM

ssclark
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the problem in flint is because of the inability of poor people and the local government to repair lead painted houses. The water issue is a drop in the bucket (apologies for the pun), but is way easier to go after politically.

High lead levels in children has been a problem in new england and midwestern states since we began testing for lead regardless.

2/18/2017 4:34:55 PM

dtownral
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lead pipes, not lead paint

2/18/2017 5:40:37 PM

acraw
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what do you think of gmos

2/18/2017 9:53:51 PM

dtownral
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I washed my car this weekend and my driveway didn't melt from the fluoridated water

2/20/2017 6:21:29 AM

Doss2k
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Yet...

2/20/2017 10:59:22 AM

dtownral
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Got home from work and had to park on the street because my driveway dissolved

2/20/2017 5:04:08 PM

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