Quote :

"the link is the summary, its a great summary http://prospect.org/article/moral-mondays-and-south%E2%80%99s-new-liberal-gospel"

It really is a great article

The religious overtones of MM really hearken back to much older movements. I keep hoping for some Chris Hedges commentary in this regard (or hell even visit Raleigh), since he constantly laments the death of the "liberal" or activist Churches (see "Death of the Liberal Class")

anyways:

I LOVE the conservative peanut gallery ITT. They know that somethings happening, but they don't know what it is . . . . . . .

here let me help you out:

First of all it has energized the opposition to all the terrible legislation. Its created "awareness" (cue things white people like) across the nation, but especially in NC. Its important for people to know there are others that feel the exact same way they do. No politician in the NCGA can stand up and claim "North Carolina 100% supports this [insert shitty bill here], and you should too." By not showing opposition you rubber stamp what they are doing. That in and of itself is MORE than enough reason for MM, but there's more.

Things are in fact changing. There are signs that some of the House is already moderating. Several Republicans voted against the budget, they know people are pissed. MM helped to expose McCrory as a liar and the general contempt most of the GOP leaders have for anyone that differs from them. The Democratic money machine is taking notice (for better or worse). Voter drives have been planned to counteract all the Voter ID nonsense.

Its unlikely that more moderate voices will "take over" in 2014, but even a handful more is a step in the right direction. A handful more will start to send a message to those that think they can continue to push rightward. MM may not survive to the next session, and it doesn't need to. The connections and solidarity among activists have already been made so that they can move on to the next form of protest.

In all of these ways, MM has already been a huge success.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 5:05 PM. Reason : tl;dr]

7/30/2013 5:04:31 PM

Quote :

" but this democracy in action."

ehh. I disagree. Politicians directly going against the dictates of their electorate is not democracy in action. And you can argue that exercising your 1st amendment rights is more in line with "democracy in action" than corrupt politicians doing what the hell they want.


I'm not marganilizing the intent of the protests, but this:

Quote :

" but i'm just saying that don't want to get arrested"

Is why nobody in power respects the protestors. If you're protesting, then you have to be willing to sacrifice. Otherwise people in power will nod and say they understand your position, but then carry on doing what they intended to do all along.

I'm not gonna say that protests are unimportant. They're very important....but change only occurs when those in power legitimately fear the power of their electorate. And that ain't happening right now. In fact, they're passing crap legislation in the face of those who oppose them.

Quote :

" I keep hoping for some Chris Hedges commentary in this regard"

Chris Hedges understands better than most that successful protests usually involve great sacrifice...

There's an art to protesting, and every protest that has been successful in the past has involved peaceful movements being crushed by the boot-heel's of the state. That's the cold reality. You have to be able to melt the hearts of those who would otherwise not care one way or the other.


[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 5:12 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2013 5:06:54 PM

I was mostly commenting on Hedges in that it seems MM is a resurrection of the liberal activist church, which is one of the main points of that article. Those types of churches obviously had a huge impact on Hedges since that is what he grew up in and is obviously where he draws a lot of his morality from.

7/30/2013 5:16:59 PM

^^^ Please provide evidence in support of your assertion that:

Quote :

"There are signs that some of the House is already moderating. Several Republicans voted against the budget, they know people are pissed."

Some Republicans did vote against the budget, but I have seen no evidence it was because of the efforts of any protesters or because "they know people are pissed."

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 5:19 PM. Reason : ....]

7/30/2013 5:18:52 PM

ITT people are surprised we live in a Republic.

7/30/2013 5:31:44 PM

Quote :

"[Not wanting to get arrested] Is why nobody in power respects the protestors. If you're protesting, then you have to be willing to sacrifice."

I see your point, but as I observed, a LOT of the protesters seemed to be middle-aged law-abiding citizens with families. Getting arrested could have serious consequences on them and their family. Couple that with the fact that the representatives were elected, and they might even feel it's not appropriate to protest to the point of having to get law enforcement involved. they're just trying to peacefully send a message that there's a large group of the electorate that strongly disagrees with a lot of the legislation.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2013 5:39:43 PM

Quote :

"ITT people are surprised we live in a Republic."

ITT people fed up with the only options being 2 extreme positions. I do my best to convince people that nanny-state liberalism is preferable to theocracy but do they listen?

7/30/2013 6:01:53 PM

Quote :

"ITT people are surprised we live in a Republic."

ITT people make petty distinctions between a Republic and a Representative Democracy.

Consent of the governed means just that. I highly doubt that a majority of NC residents voted to bar sharia law or to prevent women from being able to make their own decisions, or to promote some other dumb-ass legislation your local government fixated on during this session.

"constitutional republic" is a cop-out phrase that is brought out every single time conservatives in power push through legislation that goes against popular will, and often times against the very promises previously made by those in power.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 7:01 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2013 6:55:51 PM

Quote :

"There's an art to protesting, and every protest that has been successful in the past has involved peaceful movements being crushed by the boot-heel's of the state. That's the cold reality. You have to be able to melt the hearts of those who would otherwise not care one way or the other."

Well, I'd say the common thread is that successful protests end in violence. Either the people use violence against the government (French revolution), or the government uses violence against the people.

The important part is that implicit violence ("We make the laws, and if you disobey them you'll be punished, and if you resist punishment you'll be killed") become explicit. People are largely okay with a looming threat of violence, but if they actually see the violence, some primal switch is flipped.

7/31/2013 11:49:15 AM

7/31/2013 11:50:32 AM

Quote :

"Well, I'd say the common thread is that successful protests end in violence. Either the people use violence against the government (French revolution), or the government uses violence against the people."

The only reason why I didn't say what you did is because violence on the part of the protestors seemingly crosses the line between "protest" and into the territory of "revolution." And I'm not about to suggest that the people of Raleigh start breaking out the guillotines and balaclavas.

This is largely semantics, but I'd agree with you that power shifts are almost always bloody. Protesters, on the other hand, have to be willing to be on the receiving end of that stick if they want to incite change without a massive overhaul of the state.


People didn't support the civil rights movement because a few protesters peacefully raised their concerns in front of the state legislature. They supported it because they saw police dogs attacking teenagers and schoolgirls being thrown to the ground by firehoses. I say that, because this:

Quote :

"Getting arrested could have serious consequences on them and their family."

Is ALWAYS the case. And if you're gonna protest, you gotta do it regardless of those consequences. I'm not saying that the fear of being jailed isn't a legitimate concern. It is. But if that fear is enough to keep you from protesting for actual reform, then that reform will never happen. That's just the way it is.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2013 12:20:32 PM

Quote :

"The only reason why I didn't say what you did is because violence on the part of the protestors seemingly crosses the line between "protest" and into the territory of "revolution." And I'm not about to suggest that the people of Raleigh start breaking out the guillotines and balaclavas."

To be clear, I'm not advocating violence, just stating that protests are only "successful" (that is, becoming the catalyst for lasting political change) when there is violence. Incidentally, one of the best ways for cops to defuse protests is to show respect towards the protesters. Turns out spraying protesters with fire hoses doesn't do much to get the people on your side.

7/31/2013 12:50:02 PM

As already mentioned, the protests have been successful in that they've raised awareness.

7/31/2013 12:59:49 PM

^^your opinion carries no weight

your repeated claim that any amount of government is violence or slavery carries no weight

7/31/2013 1:07:13 PM

Neither does yours.

Quote :

"As already mentioned, the protests have been successful in that they've raised awareness."

Sure, they're successful if you lower the bar drastically.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 1:23 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2013 1:22:19 PM

they've been successful

7/31/2013 1:25:36 PM

Quote :

"Neither does yours."

people agree with my position

you just have nutjobs in hooded sweatshirts in cabins who think that all and any government is slavery and violence. but please, continue to post your manifest about how all government is violence in every thread about every topic.

7/31/2013 1:27:50 PM

^no they don't agree with you, you're wrong

there...i haven't posted itt all month and just matched all you have contributed

have you noticed that destroyer actually makes a point every time he posts, as opposed to your constant name calling, trolling, and misspelled words at the third grade level?

if you can't refute the points he makes or stand up to his intellect, just say so...or stop posting. the fact that you can't say anything without making personal attacks makes you the clear loser here.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2013 1:43:16 PM

literally the first post on this page is someone agreeing with me

but nice try

7/31/2013 1:48:13 PM

^is that the trump card? in that case, i side with destroyer. so you're still wrong.

you didn't post anything on the previous page, anyway, except for a few links and (surprise!) more insults.

to be such a smart lib up in your ivory tower, coupled with a wife you insist is hotter than kate upton, i'm really surpised how you let a few pleb conservatives get you so riled up.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2013 1:50:14 PM

you want me to refute the claim that all government is violence?

okay, here it goes:

7/31/2013 1:58:03 PM

not all government is violence, but until you accept that the less of it we have, the better,

Quote :

" "

is a pretty tidy packaged response to anything you post.

7/31/2013 2:00:31 PM

explain why "less government is better" is universally true

I don't accept that it is

7/31/2013 2:08:15 PM

Quote :

"^is that the trump card? in that case, i side with destroyer. so you're still wrong."

i'd be curious to hear your opinion, and why you think destroyer is right on the issue of the protesters.

7/31/2013 2:09:46 PM

I like dtownral when he posts smileys and one-word answers.

7/31/2013 2:18:50 PM

truth

7/31/2013 2:20:40 PM

Quote :

"As already mentioned, the protests have been successful in that they've raised awareness."

This is a pretty hallow victory, though. Because the actual legislation (legislation that has actual effects) is pretty terrible.

This is mostly a matter of perspective, but moral victories during political battles aren't necessarily successful. You can argue that they might be beneficial down the line, and perhaps they will be, but the actual laws that have been passed are embarrassingly regressive, to the point that the eventual repeal will only get you back to where you once already were. 2 steps back, 1 step forward kind of thing.

7/31/2013 2:45:16 PM

Quote :

"people agree with my position you just have nutjobs in hooded sweatshirts in cabins who think that all and any government is slavery and violence. but please, continue to post your manifest about how all government is violence in every thread about every topic."

People agreed with Hitler too. You're literally Hitler.

I understand your response, though. I'm not some anarchist neckbeard that fantasizes about killing cops or burning government buildings. If you met me in real life, you wouldn't even know I was a nutjob!

Quote :

"they've been successful"

I think even the protesters would say they're out there for more than "raising awareness". They believe that they will influence change somehow. Awareness isn't good enough. You need to get people angry.

7/31/2013 2:57:52 PM

^^ the goal was not to change this legislation, the goal was to raise awareness to stop it from continuing while at the same time taking back the "moral" position by invoking religion that has historically been a powerful part of social action in the south even for agnostics.

7/31/2013 3:23:09 PM

Yep, brilliant move to call it Moral Monday and attempt to take back the moral high ground position in politics. I would never have thought of that strategy but it just goes to show that you need more than facts to further a political agenda. You also need an emotionally charged purpose and money.

7/31/2013 6:19:58 PM

Wonder if the protests had anything to do with this?

http://www.wral.com/mccrory-calls-for-fewer-tests-extra-teacher-pay/12729286/?d_comment_order=forward#comments_block

8/1/2013 12:33:00 PM

^Outside his private speech today:



At an event he spoke at north of Charlotte last week:



At a recent event in New Bern:



All the heat seems to be on him now as he starts signing these bad bills. And every positive public press event he tries to have ends up being coverage of protests.

8/1/2013 2:25:39 PM

his approval ratings are dropping even among reoublicans

8/1/2013 2:53:02 PM

Quote :

"Wonder if the protests had anything to do with this? http://www.wral.com/mccrory-calls-for-fewer-tests-extra-teacher-pay/12729286/?d_comment_order=forward#comments_block"

If it was an attempt to make teachers happier, then he's way off the mark. The "more pay" thing would use temporary, federal Race to the Top funds, and would only go to a thousand teachers or so.

Regarding "less tests," I don't think teachers care about the number of tests; they care about how the tests are used.

And he's just pissing us off when we tells us his tax cut is giving us a 1% raise. You'll need to have >15 years of experience before you're making the $40-45k he's citing. More accurately, you'll need to have had 15 years of experience 6 years ago, when they froze salaries.




[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2013 3:00:36 PM

Asheville Police estimate 10,000 at Mountain Moral Monday today!

8/5/2013 6:47:12 PM

I'm actually working in Asheville this week and my hotel is right across the street from ^that park. 10,000 seems like a really high estimate IMO, but the place was definitely slammed and the cheering was LOUD. I stumbled right past it all looking for a place to eat.

I'm sitting down, grubbin and throwin back some beers, when who should decide to eat at the same restaurant? - Reverend Barber. As he (and an extensive entourage) enter the place, everyone stands up and starts cheering and clapping. The man can't even go to the pisser without taking 2-3 photos with different people.

I think Barber is an OK guy, and great for this "movement." But Jesus christ if people weren't nutting themselves to shake his hand or take a picture. Most likely just an Asheville thing, but it will be interesting to see how the rest of the Traveling Moral Mondays turn out.

8/5/2013 9:00:07 PM

^ I must correct and say 6,500 according to media. Originally 10,000 was relayed as an estimate via livestream.

8/5/2013 10:27:08 PM

big ass crowd either way

8/5/2013 11:10:56 PM

Quote :

"Wonder if the protests had anything to do with this? http://www.wral.com/mccrory-calls-for-fewer-tests-extra-teacher-pay/12729286/?d_comment_order=forward#comments_block" "

who cares what he says NOW. He already signed the bills and didnt veto them.

Actions speak way louder than words in this case.

8/6/2013 2:16:12 AM

^^ Only 1,000 teachers would see any pay increase through the stipend. It is a dog and pony show to try and make up for the budget he now owns. The claim is also that the tax reform package will benefit teachers by about 1% (I am not sure if that is even true) making for an effective 1% pay increase. Even if it is true that is laughable. It means 300 bucks over the course of an entire year if you make 30K or $5.76 per week.

[Edited on August 6, 2013 at 8:37 AM. Reason : .]

8/6/2013 8:29:20 AM

^^well yeah, it's basically like he gave the teachers a plate of cookies.

8/6/2013 9:10:48 AM

http://www.wral.com/wake-da-offers-deal-to-moral-monday-arrestees/12765874/

Quote :

"Wake DA Colon Willoughby is making arrestees an offer: Perform 25 hours community service and pay $180 in court costs, and the charges will be dismissed. According to Willoughby, it's called "deferred prosecution." Arrestees don't have to admit guilt if they fulfill the community service requirement and pay the court costs. After a set amount of time, usually six months, all charges are dismissed."

I bet more people would have gotten arrested if they knew this.

8/12/2013 2:33:36 PM

^ They did the same during Occupy. Some took it and others didn't and still most cases were dismissed anyway.

8/12/2013 3:11:23 PM

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/08/mccrory-continues-to-drop.html

Quote :

"The one group coming out ahead in all of this is the Moral Monday protestors. They have a 49/35 statewide favorability rating now, and voters say by a 47/38 margin that they have a higher opinion of the protestors than the General Assembly. Ironically McCrory's approval in March was 49/35...but that's where the protesters are now as he's dropped a net 26 points over the last 5 months. to 39/51..""

8/14/2013 1:22:20 PM

Quote :

"I bet more people would have gotten arrested if they knew this."

Bull shit that is a horrible deal. If you value your time at 15/an hour that's $375+$180 you could throw at an attorney to get the charges dismissed.

If every person arrested demands an individual trial they will get dismissed anyway. I think all of the protesters should come up with ways to drag out the process, like requesting all discovery (evidence) to be used against them (videos, officer notes, witness statements), names of all witnesses to be used against them, etc. Then they can all start calling each other as witnesses that were present to drag out the trials and clog the court rooms.

8/15/2013 12:40:19 AM

Quote :

"f you value your time at 15/an hour that's $375+$180 you could throw at an attorney to get the charges dismissed."

I would bet that a lot of these people would rather do community service instead of hiring an attorney. They're probably happy to do community service.

8/15/2013 10:26:31 AM

^^ I know in a few cases some people in Occupy brought their charges all the way to jury trial.

8/15/2013 10:30:49 AM

I am sorry, but if the government charges me with some bullshit ticket I am not doing free labor AND paying to get out of it. The fuck head DA tried to get me to do volunteer work to get out of a bunch of nuisance party tickets once, I asked for a continuance and sent crouch back in there, all were dismissed and no court costs were paid.

The city tried to fine my wife $150 once because our dog dug out of the fence, then they sent the cops over with a misdemeanor summons, the same thing happened, lawyered up, charges dismissed, city did not make a dime.

These deals are even shittier since the defendant has to pay court costs for a dismissed charge.

8/15/2013 1:39:28 PM

Quote :

"I am not doing free labor"

some people don't see community service as "free labor". they see it as helping the community. which is the same reason most of the people justified their protesting.

8/15/2013 1:40:40 PM

http://youtu.be/QcE5aDTszrY

8/16/2013 7:20:07 PM