It doesn't make any sense that they would get LOIC and no major penalties (post-season bans and whatnot)...which is what the UNC "insiders" are saying. I don't think there has ever been LOIC without major penalties. Sounds like they're either (a) completely fucking delusional and just think the NCAA would never hurt them or (b) they know they're getting major penalties and they're trying to build up this false sense of "nothing will happen" so everyone will be outraged and think the NCAA is evil when the hammer actually drops.

I could really see either one of those scenarios being true. (a) looks possible because they've always predicted much tamer penalties than what actually occurred (they thought Marvin Austin was only going to get a two game suspension, Little one game...and that was it). (b) looks possible because they've spent millions on a PR firm and that could be a likely strategy.

Either way...their football team gets worse, their basketball recruiting keeps getting worse, and their baseball team just missing the tourney....so fuck them...this is awesome.

5/26/2015 11:55:22 AM

Quote :

"With such evidence already outlined in the Wainstein Report, punishment—to numerous sports programs at UNC—may arrive swiftly. The NCAA ruling could also tarnish the legacy of the late Dean Smith, who coached the men’s basketball team as the cheating allegedly began. And with Syracuse University receiving a postseason ban after the NCAA found it guilty of far lesser crimes, Tar Heels fans may need to brace themselves for a seismic punishment."

5/26/2015 12:30:08 PM

Quote :

"The NCAA ruling could also tarnish the legacy of the late Dean Smith, who coached the men’s basketball team as the cheating allegedly began."

5/26/2015 12:55:53 PM

Bethel after Friday's release:

5/26/2015 2:08:27 PM

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/26/theres-only-one-way-the-ncaa-gets-unc-investigation-wrong-a-2016-postseason-ban/

why wasn't this guy crying over the Syracuse post-season ban? the real issue here is that UNC has a shot at a title this year - it has nothing to do with the students involvement. the investigation has been going on since they were recruited. they took a risk coming to UNC.

[Edited on May 26, 2015 at 3:37 PM. Reason : .]

5/26/2015 3:36:09 PM

Normally I would actually agree that hurting the players directly now isn't really fair, but all these players started playing once this shit was already going down and they chose to get into the program despite that, so sorry they gotta deal with it.

[Edited on May 26, 2015 at 3:38 PM. Reason : ^ Yeah this]

5/26/2015 3:38:18 PM

Quote :

"If the NCAA wants to take away the 2017 ACC and NCAA tournaments from the Tar Heels, have at it. It gives the players currently on the team fair warning. They’d be able to transfer, or turn pro, or even remain a Tar Heel knowing full-well what the future held for them."

I'd be ok with this as well.

5/26/2015 4:08:04 PM

I'd laugh so hard if they don't get a 2016 ban but get a 2017 like in the above scenario and it causes everyone who isn't a senior to transfer out so that way they don't even make the tournament in 2016 and then they're fucked for the next couple years on top of it.

5/26/2015 4:12:47 PM

(from the link on the previous page) Art Chansky may end up being right - but my guess is that he's kinda just speculating at this point. He hasn't exactly been dead on during this entire thing. He's a huge UNC homer. And I'm guessing that UNC's administration is trying to keep this under wraps as much as possible so that they can have their own spin on it once they release the redacted version. In other words, I'm not buying Art's "everything is ok" story. He says that LOIC is on the table - yet the NOA doesn't even discuss punishments or anything like that. So I have a hard time believing he really knows much at this point.

5/26/2015 4:17:36 PM

How much would it suck for UNC if they received a post season ban and went undefeated in said season? Wouldn't that just be the worst thing that's ever happened to any basketball team ever?

5/26/2015 4:39:49 PM

Quote :

"If the NCAA wants to take away the 2017 ACC and NCAA tournaments from the Tar Heels, have at it."

No, absolutely not. This is what UNC wants.

"We know we've been caught cheating for the last 18+ years, and won National Titles we had no business winning because we cheated to do it, but hey, let us have just one more good shot at winning another National Title, you know, because we're really sorry."

Fuck that shit*.

[Edited on May 26, 2015 at 4:48 PM. Reason : *unless they get banned for 2016 AND 2017]

5/26/2015 4:47:25 PM

I wonder if Roy would retire if they got banned for 2016 and 2017. Everybody would leave so it would be at least, what, 2021 or so until they had a shot again? Also, if he did leave they'd have a hell of a time finding a decent replacement and even so it would hurt the program for years down the road. I think I just got a boner thinking about it.

5/26/2015 5:12:39 PM

They should make Roy Williams strip naked and walk through the brickyard like Cersei through Kings Landing

5/26/2015 5:13:22 PM

Quote :

"How much would it suck for UNC if they received a post season ban and went undefeated in said season? Wouldn't that just be the worst thing that's ever happened to any basketball team ever? "

yeah it would be the worst things that's ever happened to any basketball team ever because you see when State did it, well, that was different. State was actually cheating and just got what they had coming. but this has been a witch hunt, starting with the NCAA going all the way down to the News & Observer, to destroy UNC athletics. so to answer your question, yes it would be the worst thing ever. and we'd never hear the end of how "unfair" it was - even though we did the same damn thing 40 years ago.

5/26/2015 6:02:50 PM

so I'm paraphrasing, but UNC is "happy" with Lack of Institutional Control?

5/26/2015 7:35:40 PM

Yeah, I'm not seeing how they think they're going to skate on LOIC. I guess it's the same way we think we're going to be good every year

[Edited on May 26, 2015 at 7:51 PM. Reason : .]

5/26/2015 7:50:23 PM

yeah that's exactly why i feel like art chansky is just talking out of his ass. UNC may very well skate on this. but not if they're slapped with LOIC

5/26/2015 8:35:08 PM

How long does it take to redact a report? I've literally redacted national security papers quicker than this.

5/26/2015 9:06:13 PM

I know it's old, but it's funny, damnit

http://host.madison.com/daily-cardinal/unc-student-misses-game-finishing-basketball-team-s-homework/article_343226ca-d362-11e4-aedc-cf5e31c80bf3.html?mobile_touch=true

5/26/2015 9:43:25 PM

Quote :

"so I'm paraphrasing, but UNC is "happy" with Lack of Institutional Control? "

I'm still convinced his source was right but he got it mixed up. They are happy to receive the NOA, because the NCAA doesn't know half the shit they are still getting away with.

5/26/2015 9:52:52 PM

UNC is approaching day 5 of redacting a report they are supposedly "Happy" with. That is, unless the NOA was received back on April 17th and they've intentionally sat on it until a holiday weekend came around.

5/27/2015 12:00:03 AM

devil's advocate...if there are a shitload of athletes implicated, they have to redact a bunch of names and whatnot because of ferpa...i'm content with that nowadays...previously i wanted to see which players were cheating, but i'm fine as long as they get punished as a whole...if they don't want any athletes to get implicated, whatever, let them take as long as they want...PackPride will probably uncover stuff they messed up on within a day anyway

5/27/2015 12:06:03 AM

I have a feeling someone at Packpride already knows and isn't telling till like the day of just what the letter says.

They'll be postseason banned for a few years, but most likely two. That's not a lot since they dont have elite talent now, these guys will stick around for awhile. Then they'll have some fantastic most amazing recruiting class better than kentucky did...and yet still be cheatin' the system somehow.

The pockets run deep...

See this old school link to get the message more clearly...make sure your audio is on high.
http://stilllwaters.ytmnd.com/

[Edited on May 27, 2015 at 1:13 AM. Reason : waters]

5/27/2015 1:10:22 AM

UNC supporters claim that nothing will happen because this isn't in the NCAA's area to enforce and that a lawsuit from UNC would come if any sanctions were handed down.

Everyone else claims that anything less than forfeited wins(perhaps a banner or 2) and postseason bans in multiple sports will be UNC getting off with a slap on the wrist.

I have a feeling Syracuse is about to be really pissed off, haha.

5/27/2015 8:49:41 AM

I'm still in the "Banners need to come down" group. If they get to keep their championships, why wouldn't everyone cheat just like they did. I'm sure plenty of schools would trade a couple of post season bans for a couple of titles.

I'm sure this has been brought up but, think about the recruiting advantage UNC has had over the years due to those championships.

5/27/2015 8:55:46 AM

To be fair, the biggest recruiting advantage they've had for like 25 years is Michael Jordan.

5/27/2015 9:14:32 AM

To be fair, the biggest recruiting advantage they've had for like 25 years is Michael Jordan Nissan

5/27/2015 9:40:37 AM

Too bad Debby Crowder didn't grade any of MJ's papers

5/27/2015 9:41:39 AM

I mean Syracuse got to keep their title even though there was plenty of evidence that they're issues went back past that championship year. I'd be surprised if the NCAA would strip a title from UNC.

5/27/2015 10:07:44 AM

I still expect nothing to come of this and this to be the end of the NCAA. UNC will be lauded as the great school that brought the NCAA down and all will be fine in cheaterville. If the NCAA uses the excuse that they dont have jurisdiction here to bring down the ban hammer and SACS or whatever doesn't completely rip them a new one then then the precedent has been set and that will be the end of the "student athlete" as if it wasn't already.

Every school out there would have no reason not to pull the same bullshit to even the playing field knowing the NCAA can't do shit to them and whatever governing body for their accredidation is gonna slap them on the wrist. Everyone just creates bullshit departments allows regular students in the know to also take the fake classes and boom degree factories all across the country.

5/27/2015 10:35:41 AM

I'd rather they punish UNC with future items so they actually feel it instead of retroactively removing wins or banners, which is only for show and has little effect. I think those wins and banners should go away on principal, but as a punishment it's probably not effective at all.

5/27/2015 11:12:09 AM

its done-zo. mccants being the first hand account was enough for me with releasing his records.

then the unc homers go ... "but mccants is a complete moron just seeking attention, can't be credible"

then the easy response "uh... yea... so how did that complete moron make the effing deans list if you want to play it that way?"

I really don't think they can angle their way out of this one on any of the issues.

5/27/2015 11:13:13 AM

unCheat going to release it with everything going on with FIFA

5/27/2015 12:19:16 PM

Lol no one cares about soccer

5/27/2015 12:30:25 PM

Quote :

"I'd rather they punish UNC with future items so they actually feel it instead of retroactively removing wins or banners, which is only for show and has little effect. I think those wins and banners should go away on principal, but as a punishment it's probably not effective at all."

agree with all of this

5/27/2015 3:32:09 PM

Quote :

"I think those wins and banners should go away on principal, but as a punishment it's probably not effective at all.""

Agreed. Taking banners down ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. It is a completely empty punishment in my opinion.

5/27/2015 3:35:55 PM

So how should we feel about banners coming down?

5/27/2015 3:39:43 PM

I get what everyone is saying, but the satisfaction of having UNC's total number of championships going from 5 to 3 (I'm not counting the Helms bullshit) and just being slightly above us would be pretty damn amazing

[Edited on May 27, 2015 at 3:50 PM. Reason : dammit]

5/27/2015 3:48:33 PM

Quote :

""I'd rather they punish UNC with future items so they actually feel it instead of retroactively removing wins or banners, which is only for show and has little effect. I think those wins and banners should go away on principal, but as a punishment it's probably not effective at all.""

But who are you seeking to punish? The institution? Or the athletes who committed the transgressions or the guilty staff? Or are you setting out to make an example out of them?

Monetary sanctions, taking away championships and banners, and instituting high level oversight would punish the guilty.

Giving the death sentence to the program would punish a lot of people, namely athletes, who were not involved. That's the only thing that gives me pause about punishing future teams. Unless you then give everyone an out (which I know they would), but quite a few of the lesser players wouldn't be able to secure transfers.

So, take away their past victories for any season that falls under the LOIC, and institute an oversight program, but I don't ever see the NCAA keeping UNC out of the post season.

5/27/2015 3:54:00 PM

The players who signed up for the school have had over 5 years to figure out this was going to happen.

They chose UNC under this cloud.

GUILTY

BRING ON THE PAIN!

5/27/2015 3:59:46 PM

Wouldn't 1993, 2005 and 2009 all be in jeopardy?

What % of the team needs to take what % of fake classes before the athletic "accomplishments" that year are considered forfeit?

I would think taking down the banners is the best punishment possible, since that is the main measure of success for any school/franchise. Either way if they leave up the banner its just a reminder of "The Carolina way".

5/27/2015 4:03:35 PM

Quote :

"The players who signed up for the school have had over 5 years to figure out this was going to happen. They chose UNC under this cloud."

Exactly. They knew the chances they were taking going to a school with a pending NCAA violation.

5/27/2015 4:08:38 PM

If the NCAA stripped all of UNC's basketball wins back to 1993, we'd have the same number of national championships and take the lead in the series all-time by a few games.

(Of course thats only if we were awarded wins for all those games we lost, but I don't think that's how it works.)

[Edited on May 27, 2015 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/27/2015 4:08:56 PM

Quote :

"but the satisfaction of having UNC's total number of championships going from 5 to 3 (I'm not counting the Helms bullshit) and just being slightly above us would be pretty damn amazing"

I am not being sarcastic here so don't flip out. I do not understand this sentiment. Taking the 82 banner from UNC does not change the fact that they beat Georgetown. It punishes no one. Everyone that lived during that era watching that team and celebrated that win, is not going to be punished at all unless you wipe their memory.

The only lasting, meaningful punishments are those that affect the near future of the affected program and restrict the university from bringing in talent. No recruit gives two shits about the 82 banner. No one comes to play for State because we won in 83...

Reduce scholarships, ban them from post season play, and do it for 3 years. 3 years of not being relevant in basketball and football recruiting is a GIANT punishment.

[Edited on May 27, 2015 at 4:13 PM. Reason : .]

5/27/2015 4:10:38 PM

I want to see banners come down and see us catch up to them in the total number of legitimate championships. If they get some post season bans that cause Roy to retire and create a ripple effect that sets their program back ten years between lackluster replacement coaches and shitty recruits, than that's just icing on the cake.

5/27/2015 4:13:31 PM

And we'd have the most recent championship. How many times have they talked shit about us not winning one in 30 years.

5/27/2015 4:14:18 PM

SMH

[Edited on May 27, 2015 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/27/2015 4:14:34 PM

Quote :

"I am not being sarcastic here so don't flip out. I do not understand this sentiment. Taking the 82 banner from UNC does not change the fact that they beat Georgetown. It punishes no one. Everyone that lived during that era watching that team and celebrated that win, is not going to be punished at all unless you wipe their memory. "

Because a victory earned by cheating is not a victory. Sure, you can't wipe those memories, but they will be tainted with disdain.

5/27/2015 4:16:12 PM

And I can truthfully say, "No they won't." They will still argue that people can take their banners down but they can't take away what they accomplished.

5/27/2015 4:17:15 PM

No one remembers the years that Lance Armstrong didn't finish first. But everyone remembers the years he cheated and won.

5/27/2015 4:18:50 PM