Hard to argue with much of this

Quote :

""Here's how to get rid of it" When wealthy Americans brought home the practice of tipping from their European vacations in the late 19th century, their countrymen considered it bribery. State legislatures quickly banned the practice. But restaurateurs, giddy at the prospect of passing labor costs directly to customers, eventually convinced Americans to accept tipping. We had it right the first time. Tipping is a repugnant custom. It’s bad for consumers and terrible for workers. It perpetuates racism. Tipping isn’t even good for restaurants, because the legal morass surrounding gratuities results in scores of expensive lawsuits. Tipping does not incentivize hard work. The factors that correlate most strongly to tip size have virtually nothing to do with the quality of service. Credit card tips are larger than cash tips. Large parties with sizable bills leave disproportionately small tips. We tip servers more if they tell us their names, touch us on the arm, or draw smiley faces on our checks. Quality of service has a laughably small impact on tip size. According to a 2000 study, a customer’s assessment of the server’s work only accounts for between 1 and 5 percent of the variation in tips at a restaurant. Tipping also creates a racially charged feedback loop, based around the widely held assumption—explored in an episode of Louie, in the Oscar-winning film Crash, and elsewhere—that African-Americans tend to be subpar tippers. There seems to be some truth to this stereotype: African-Americans, on average, tip 3 percentage points less than white customers. The tipping gap between Hispanics and whites is smaller, but still discernible in studies. This creates an excuse for restaurant servers to prioritize the needs of certain ethnic groups over others. Irrelevant or insidious factors will dominate the tipping equation until quality of work becomes the main driver of tip size, but that’s unlikely to happen. And tip size isn’t the real problem anyway. The real problem is that restaurants don’t pay their employees a living wage. The federal “tip credit” allows restaurants to pay their tipped employees as little as $2.13 per hour, as long as tips make up the shortfall—which turns a customer into a co-employer. Although federal and state law requires restaurants to ensure that tips bring employees up to minimum wage, few diners know that. (Hosts/hostesses, bussers, and food runners, who receive a small fraction of the servers’ tips, often fall short of minimum wage on some nights.) The tip credit has turned the gratuity into a moral obligation, and we ought to cut it from our statute books with a steak knife. The only real beneficiary of the preposterously complicated tip credit is lawyers. Imagine what it’s like for a company running restaurants in multiple states. There’s no tip credit in some states, like California and Washington, where tipped employees must be paid the full minimum wage. Hawaii allows the tip credit only if the combined tip and cash wage surpass the statewide minimum hourly wage by 50 cents. New York and Connecticut have different minimum wages for servers, hotel employees, and bartenders. Then you have to consider time that employees spend on activities not likely to yield tips. Applebee’s, for example, has suffered a series of legal setbacks in lawsuits brought by tipped employees seeking back pay for time spent cleaning toilets and washing glassware. The laws regarding tip sharing and tip pooling, which occur in virtually every restaurant, are even more complicated. Federal law allows mandatory tip sharing, but only among employees who customarily receive either direct or indirect tips. That means servers, bussers, food runners, and hosts and hostesses can be required to pool their tips with each other, but not with managers. Unfortunately, the line between service and management is fuzzy in many restaurants, and differences between state laws further complicate matters. A California judge ordered Starbucks to pay $105 million in 2008 for forcing 100,000 baristas to share tips with supervisors. Last week, the New York Court of Appeals reached the opposite conclusion, ruling that New York law allows the arrangement. Chili’s has also lost a multimillion dollar judgment over tip sharing. The entire mess is begging for some certainty and predictability. Restaurants need a clear set of rules to follow. Servers should have a steadier income stream. Hosts and bussers, who have relatively little interaction with customers, ought not to be involved in tipping at all. Customers need more clarity as well, instead of worrying at the end of a meal if the waiter, or your guests, approve of your 17 percent tip. I’d like to propose a solution. First, ask your state and federal representatives to abolish the tip credit, which would turn tips back into actual gratuities: something given free of obligation. Second, announce your tipping practice to your server as soon as you sit down. Virtually every other employee in America knows how much they’ll be paid up front, and somehow the man who sells me shoes and the woman who does my dry cleaning still manage to provide adequate service. I have no doubt waiters and waitresses are the same. Finally, tip a flat, but reasonably generous, dollar amount per person in your party. Around 20 percent of Americans, mostly older people, tip a flat amount already, so it’s not exactly revolutionary. A server’s pay shouldn’t be linked to whether or not you have room for dessert."

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/07/abolish_tipping_it_s_bad_for_servers_customers_and_restaurants.html

7/10/2013 3:06:49 PM

7/10/2013 3:07:57 PM

There was an interesting podcast on this topic recently

http://www.freakonomics.com/tag/tipping/

7/10/2013 3:09:28 PM

^^ for real though, i think abolishing the tip credit is a good thing.

7/10/2013 3:10:32 PM

was pretty nice waiting tables/bartending in CA where I'd take home a $200-$400 paycheck every two weeks ON TOP of tips

7/10/2013 3:23:56 PM

I'm all for it. Charge more for food, pay servers a market wage, and advertise it to your patrons. Either have a minimum wage or don't, none of these silly half measures.

7/10/2013 3:26:14 PM

i prefer the line item seating fee...discourages folks from going into restaurants and hanging out for hours after purchasing just a coffee or something

tipping CAN be beneficial to waitstaff, though, and i think a fair number of them - especially the good ones - would lose money if tipping were done away with

7/10/2013 3:29:08 PM

it would take away the incentive for the wait-staff to do a good job. many more would be rude and indifferent to the customers.

7/10/2013 3:34:35 PM

No tip. Because you didn't bold any of that shit

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/10/2013 3:35:32 PM

"Just the tip"

7/10/2013 3:38:27 PM

Quote :

"it would take away the incentive for the wait-staff to do a good job. many more would be rude and indifferent to the customers."

and then they'll get fired

7/10/2013 3:46:13 PM

^not necessarily. people in customer service are rude all the time and don't get fired.

7/10/2013 3:47:48 PM

just turn every eating establishment into a clip joint

you can find the cooking instructions for most of your favorite dishes online now

just eat in, save money


and when you do go out, don't feel bad if you don't leave a tip for shitty service

its not mandantory

7/10/2013 3:48:22 PM

Quote :

"it would take away the incentive for the wait-staff to do a good job. many more would be rude and indifferent to the customers."

You could make this argument for any customer facing position.

7/10/2013 3:49:42 PM

I'm okay with how tipping is. 20% of the check is worth motivating my waiter/waitress to serve my every need with a smile so i can sit back relax and enjoy a solid meal.

7/10/2013 3:52:59 PM

I'm not reading that

7/10/2013 4:03:52 PM

7/10/2013 6:33:32 PM

Obligated tipping of servers and bartenders isn't going away until restaurants start telling customers not to tip, which presumably they would do if they paid a decent wage. It's too ingrained in our culture.

7/10/2013 6:42:48 PM

ibtresevoirdogs

7/10/2013 6:47:41 PM

My problem with tipping, is when you pare down your tip as a way to show displeasure with service, I doubt the wait staff realizes they suck dick. They probably talk about how that guy is a shitty tipper, and not contemplate why this person gave a poor tip.

Generally speaking I tip 20% or more, as long as you make sure my drink is filled, and it doesn't take thirty minutes to get your attention.

7/10/2013 6:57:05 PM

Quote :

"I doubt the wait staff realizes they suck dick."

Only the retarded ones don't. 99% of the workers in the service industry know when they fuck up...they just try and not show it. I blamed all of my fuck-ups on the kitchen.

7/10/2013 7:00:28 PM

well the kitchen staff is more susceptible to error as they have duties other than "holding food while walking"

7/10/2013 7:24:55 PM

Quote :

"it would take away the incentive for the wait-staff to do a good job. many more would be rude and indifferent to the customers."

if only the frequency and amounts of tipping had any serious correlation with quality of service

7/10/2013 7:33:08 PM

^they do when I'm eating. A tip is a reward and I don't think it's immoral or any more of a bribe than giving someone money in exchange for food.

Shitty food? Send it back.
Shitty service? Don't tip.

why is that so hard to understand

7/10/2013 7:41:46 PM

I saw this article the other day. Made me think about / realize some things I hadn't previously

7/10/2013 8:03:45 PM

^^good boy, now if only most tippers were like you

7/10/2013 8:05:32 PM

Quote :

"Only the retarded ones don't. 99% of the workers in the service industry know when they fuck up...they just try and not show it. I blamed all of my fuck-ups on the kitchen"

And when the good ones fuck up, and do what they need to do to fix it, I still give them a standard tip. I'm not immune from mistakes, so I don't see the point in not tipping when you made good. The ones that are simply terrible, and don't refill my drinks, get shitty tips and probably think they did no wrong,.

7/10/2013 8:16:42 PM

Quote :

"well the kitchen staff is more susceptible to error as they have duties other than "holding food while walking""

We look forward to you regaling us with your tales of being a server and only being responsible for running food to tables

7/10/2013 8:39:13 PM

I always thought tip amount was proportional to tit size.

7/11/2013 10:05:57 AM

^ If you listen to the podcast bobby linked to, it is.

7/11/2013 10:20:41 AM

If we take away the tip credit and make restaurants pay servers a full wage, what happens to the restaurants bottom line? Minimum wage in NC is more than double the $2.13/hr these vocations earn.

How many restaurants can afford to do this while keeping their menu prices reasonable? If you pay servers more, prices will have to go up. Higher prices mean less customers. Less customers could spell disaster for restaurant owners.

Shaking up the system could cause many places to go out of business. Not sure that's a great end result, all in the name of fixing a system that's not really that broken.

[Edited on July 11, 2013 at 10:46 AM. Reason : .]

7/11/2013 10:46:03 AM

^They're no point in shaking up the system when it works. So you're right.

The people that complain about tipping are the same ones that would complain about outrageous food prices. They are cheap and nothing is going to change that.

[Edited on July 11, 2013 at 10:50 AM. Reason : .]

7/11/2013 10:50:13 AM

Tipping is bullshit, if you aren't satisfied with your wages get another job.

7/11/2013 10:56:20 AM

^Why would you do that if you're making good money waiting tables?

7/11/2013 10:57:22 AM

I've said for a long time that America should emulate Israel's mandatory military service, only instead of the military, make kids wait tables for 2 years.

People would be a whole lot nicer to each other, just sayin'

7/11/2013 11:00:26 AM

Quote :

"How many restaurants can afford to do this while keeping their menu prices reasonable? If you pay servers more, prices will have to go up. Higher prices mean less customers. Less customers could spell disaster for restaurant owners. Shaking up the system could cause many places to go out of business. Not sure that's a great end result, all in the name of fixing a system that's not really that broken."

Everyones menu prices would go up. It's not like most people would stop going out if the menu prices went up 18%, most people are already paying that much or more including the tip. If the cheap bastards who don't tip (clearly a small minority) go out to eat less, I doubt that's going to make restaurants go out of business.

7/11/2013 11:06:02 AM

Quote :

"I always thought tip amount was proportional to tit size."

haha, as synapse pointed out, the data shows that it is. They specifically called out blonde, big breasted women as the group who gets tipped the best.


another finding I remembered was that black waiters/waitresses get tipped less than white servers by BOTH white and black patrons.

7/11/2013 2:31:11 PM

Supposedly it's considered an insult in some countries... I have never understood why

7/11/2013 3:16:15 PM

in soviet russia, server tip you!

7/11/2013 3:36:45 PM

Next time you are wondering whether your server is tip worthy or not, think of this video

http://www.upworthy.com/the-next-time-you-consider-whether-your-server-is-worth-a-tip-remember-this-clip-6

7/28/2013 8:07:58 PM

why would prices need to go up?

many of these $20 dishes can be made for less than a dollar per serving

I guess the profit margin cannot be sacrificed

damned if sanitation standards, customer service, and high quality food get in the way of big profits

7/28/2013 8:21:13 PM

I feel much more sorry for bad retail than I do for people relying on tips. It may not be consistent but you can make bank off tips.

Consider if a person waits on just 2 tables in in hour and comes out with say 50 bucks on the combined tabs. A 10%(low) tip would be 5 bucks. That's close to the worst case scenario. If they don't get that even that they are allowed by law to get money from their employer up to the minimum wage. In the busier/more expensive scenarios they could be making 10,20, 30 bucks an hour off tips.

Waiters and Waitresses wan't tipping because its good for them. Personally I'd just prefer all the costs be built into the cost of the bill instead of feeling socially ostracized or like I can't go back to a place for not bribing high for average service.

7/28/2013 8:22:03 PM

^ you don't know what you're talking about

nobody EVER gets a paycheck as a server, unless you live in states like CA, NY, and some others that pay you an real hourly wage.

I never once got a paycheck in NC as a server, even if got stiffed by tons of parties of kids or ghetto church folk on Sunday. Just the way it goes. It's not a shift by shift basis, it per WHOLE paycheck period that you need to 'earn' minimum wage. If you go a whole two weeks without earning minimum wage, sure go ask your boss to make up the difference. LOL

[Edited on July 28, 2013 at 8:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2013 8:30:07 PM

AN INTERNET THREAD ABOUT TIPPING, HOW NOVEL

7/28/2013 8:30:52 PM

Quote :

"I never once got a paycheck in NC as a server,"

Lol its federal law, just cause you got suckered don't get mad at me.

7/28/2013 8:35:58 PM

^ That's not what he was saying.

Quote :

"Shaking up the system could cause many places to go out of business. Not sure that's a great end result, all in the name of fixing a system that's not really that broken. "

I don't know that I have an opinion one way or the other, but if tipping wasn't expected, restaurants could reasonably raise their prices and cover paying their waiters/waitresses more.


My guess is that most waiters/waitresses probably make more under the tip system than what market wages for them would be if we just paid them an hourly wage.

7/28/2013 8:43:22 PM

i'll explain it to you again:

your employer only covers the difference if it's per PAY PERIOD, not per shift

if you aren't making at least $6/hr in tips, you are in the wrong line of work

7/28/2013 8:43:46 PM

If you're telling me that you made over minimum wage per hour for your pay period then you made over minimum wage and that's the end of that. If not then you're obligated by federal law to get that money; sorry if that didn't happen.

Anyway this discussion is never gonna end. I just don't like argument that they need that money because the second anyone brings up actually paying these people a real wage they get up in arms because tipping is a pretty decent way to make cash (at that pay grade) in a lot of instances. There are a lot of laws that are in place to protect tipped workers and retail workers get screwed too.

7/28/2013 8:52:04 PM

Look at all the issues this stupid practice causes:

7/28/2013 8:53:31 PM

Quote :

"If not then you're obligated by federal law to get that money; sorry if that didn't happen."

That NEVER happens. Nobody gets stiffed by 90% of their tables on a daily basis and goes and asks their employer to make up the difference. That is, unless you're a god awful server or the place you work is atrocious.

Do you get it now?

My EMPLOYER never paid me for working there. The CUSTOMERS tips paid my wages.

[Edited on July 28, 2013 at 8:57 PM. Reason : .]

7/28/2013 8:56:50 PM