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 Message Boards » » The U.S. Middle Class Cedes Gold to Canada Page [1]  
moron
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Just heard about this on Colbert...
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-04-23/the-u-dot-s-dot-middle-class-cedes-gold-to-canada

Can't say i'm surprised. Democrats have been trying to address this for the past decade at least, while Republicans insist there's no problem with the way we lionize our corporate overlords and demonize the average worker.

We have a problem with the way we view returns on labor and capital, and how this trend has been evolving, but I predict despite this, Republicans will continue to turn a blind eye to the problem.

4/24/2014 5:01:46 PM

0EPII1
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4/25/2014 9:51:19 PM

moron
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Another interesting aspect if this is that the disposable income of middle class Canadians, despite their higher tax rates are higher. They get free healthcare, cheap education, and still have more money despite higher taxes.

"great society" era America knew the importance of keeping society greased with social programs that encourage happiness, stability, and achievement, and America has forgotten this. Between our dwindling middle class, waning scientific excellence (relative to other countries), and dissonance of our place in the world, we're living in a bubble.

4/25/2014 10:43:07 PM

CaelNCSU
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It's unpopular, but Nassim Taleb argues the middle class is not what we should worry about and we should really be helping the Elon Musks and poor. He says the poor get demonized by people peddling to the middle class. The Barbell theory he calls it.

Quote :
"In socio-economic policy, it would imply aggressive intervention for the very weak while letting the very strong alone — in contrast to the current policy of focusing on the creation of minor gains for the middle class."

4/26/2014 10:40:22 AM

dtownral
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Our current policy is seeking minor gains for the middle class? How?

[Edited on April 26, 2014 at 12:02 PM. Reason : right now we follow the the lollipop theory]

4/26/2014 11:38:00 AM

moron
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^^

That's a fine theory, if we continue along the current path, we're going to have a LOT of poor people...

4/26/2014 11:40:56 AM

The E Man
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i love the swiss income cap idea. still doesn't fix the wealth gap but it at least sends a good message.

the only way to fix the wealth gap is to regulate inheritance. there should be a heavy inheritance tax or cap.

4/26/2014 1:26:57 PM

LoneSnark
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Well, after so many years of the Democrats running the United States and the conservatives running Canada, it was just a matter of time until it showed up in income statistics.

4/27/2014 2:02:44 PM

dtownral
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where does your anarchist no-government country rank?

4/27/2014 2:07:42 PM

LoneSnark
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...my country? You mean, the United States? I'm a Republican, not an anarchist. I'm a firm believer in a whole host of unfounded beliefs, religious tenets if you will, such as the sanctity of the Constitution, American Exceptionalism, and let me throw in the sanctity of democratic decision making.

[Edited on April 27, 2014 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .,.]

4/27/2014 2:13:27 PM

dtownral
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sorry, i thought you were a free-market anarchist
(i guess i have you confused with someone else)

4/27/2014 2:22:44 PM

aaronburro
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4/27/2014 4:08:34 PM

BanjoMan
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Quote :
" and let me throw in the sanctity of democratic decision making"


The Swiss have a direct votation system.

4/29/2014 2:40:24 AM

Smath74
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^their system is full of holes...

4/29/2014 9:47:38 AM

rjrumfel
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Quote :
"i love the swiss income cap idea. still doesn't fix the wealth gap but it at least sends a good message.

the only way to fix the wealth gap is to regulate inheritance. there should be a heavy inheritance tax or cap.

"


Wow. Just wow.

4/29/2014 2:14:09 PM

moron
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I think fixed ratios between executive and worker pay is better than a cap.

I think we should also do some trials of universal basic income to see how this plays out in the US vs. some of the broader anti-poverty programs.

4/29/2014 2:33:04 PM

CuntPunter
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Look, you don't need additional Government controls layered on top of other Government controls that obviously aren't working. This technocrat approach you constantly advocate to manage our economy and society clearly has failed up to this point so why do you think continued monkeying is going to produce some better outcome?

4/29/2014 7:08:58 PM

dtownral
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use tax policy instead of wage policy

4/29/2014 7:27:59 PM

moron
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History has shown that tax policy works, but it is politically unpalatable, and does promote bureaucracy..

The fundamental problem is that wages are stagnant while profits are not, and wealth gets hoarded. This is a dangerous situation. Moving money from corporate coffers to the people directly, without directly telling people the government wants their money or that they can only pay a certain amount seems like a balanced plan. I know other countries do this, but I'm not sure the effects.

^^
Monkeying with it...? That implies the unmonkeyed state is optimal. It has become blessed monkeyed over time, and things of clearly grown worse. There is a direct correlation.

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 7:37 PM. Reason : ]

4/29/2014 7:36:37 PM

dtownral
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you think wage ceilings are more politically palatable than progressive taxes? it doesn't matter how you have equality (whether by wages or taxes), you see the same benefits either way. tax policy is much more likely than implementing wage ceilings and wage controls.

4/29/2014 8:27:51 PM

CuntPunter
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Quote :
"The fundamental problem is that wages are stagnant while profits are not, and wealth gets hoarded. This is a dangerous situation. "


Wages and monetary/asset wealth are but two measures of a society's health. The fact that it is easy to measure is likely why progressive latch on to it as a way to garner votes and power. Other markers aren't so simple (or impossible) to measure and even if they could it isn't easy to sell to the average voter.

Quote :
"Monkeying with it...? That implies the unmonkeyed state is optimal."

No. It implies that we are worse off than nominal because of the attempt to manage the economy through countless layer upon layer of bureaucracy and vote garnering.

Quote :
" It has become blessed[sic] monkeyed over time,"

By what metric? Lemme guess, you're going to cite the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the SCs decision on campaign limits as the end game for our society?


[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 10:03 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 9:59:04 PM

moron
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Quote :
"you think wage ceilings are more politically palatable than progressive taxes? it doesn't matter how you have equality (whether by wages or taxes), you see the same benefits either way. tax policy is much more likely than implementing wage ceilings and wage controls.
"


Taxes are too easy to dodge, and a ratio on executive pay isn't a wage ceiling.

4/30/2014 3:08:18 AM

Dentaldamn
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Most people are too delusional with their own self worth to agree on income caps in companies. While there are problems with it, putting caps on publicly traded companies might work.

4/30/2014 7:32:29 AM

dtownral
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i think being delusional is part of the problem, we will never make progress until we end this false idea of American exceptionalism. We have very low class mobility in this country, yet most people think its the best place to achieve the "American dream"

4/30/2014 8:40:08 AM

moron
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http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/a-bad-gdp-number-but-theres-some-hope-ahead/

Obamacare spending kept the numbers in the green.

Seems people are happy to accept the trope "you have to spend money to make money" everywhere but in governance.

4/30/2014 6:50:14 PM

CuntPunter
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Whoa whoa whoa....an artificial construct which gives a vague idea of the health of an economy has as one of it's components Government spending and we are supposed to cheer when the number is "better" than maybe it would be if Government spending weren't one of it's components?

Liberal ideology on fine display.

4/30/2014 9:13:02 PM

dtownral
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CuntPunter

4/30/2014 9:34:20 PM

aaronburro
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what's up, troll?

4/30/2014 9:59:06 PM

0EPII1
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best leader ever?

http://mic.com/articles/127042/yes-internet-canada-s-new-prime-minister-is-hot-but-here-s-what-you-should-really-know

10/20/2015 12:51:35 PM

Flyin Ryan
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1. The man got to power by being the Canadian George W. Bush (or John Quincy Adams if you prefer). His father was the dominant political leader of post-World War II Canada.
2. He voted in favor of the Canadian version of the Patriot Act a few months ago.
3. The left party actually lost in Canada's election, and the New Democrats were expected to take power from the Tories at the outset of the election. They instead fell to 3rd place and are irrelevant in opposition in comparison to the Tories. The Liberals that Trudeau leads are the definition of soft left/centrist depending where they are and who they're running against. (Quebec Liberals for example are right-leaning nationalists.)
4. He's a man that's never had power (the Liberals were in the wilderness and had no one else to turn to when he became their leader) that's saying whatever. Hey, good for him to say a lot in a campaign, now he gets to govern a country in economic recession. It's nice to see Americans such as yourself living up to the stereotype that you don't pay attention to world events and instead fall for a bunch of dumb soundbites or internet stories the day after the election. I'll bump this thread again when Young Trudeau mimics his father with his version of the "Just Watch Me" moment. Which was a great moment for the older Trudeau, but would fit your impression of Republican leaders you don't care for, and then we can ask "best leader ever?".

[Edited on October 21, 2015 at 3:58 PM. Reason : /]

10/21/2015 3:41:27 PM

LoneSnark
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Canada continues to rank at 6th on the economic freedom index while the U.S. is 12th.

10/25/2015 9:12:14 PM

HUR
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I wonder where we are on personal freedom index. We are

#1 for Incarceration rates.

10/26/2015 5:04:54 PM

0EPII1
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Here are rankings on some indices:

21st (9th in 2010)
http://theweek.com/speedreads/441508/united-states-ranked-21st-worldwide-personal-freedom
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/under-obama-u.s.-personal-freedom-ranking-slips-below-france/article/2556322


20th
http://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index


16th overall (8th in 2006)
9th in economic liberty
27th in social liberty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_World_Liberty_Index

10/27/2015 2:13:07 AM

HUR
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Perhaps now that the truth is out, the Turrists will start bombing these other countries because we all know the Turrists hate American because they hate our freedums

10/27/2015 2:15:12 PM

0EPII1
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10/28/2015 12:32:26 PM

Cabbage
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Ben Carson'll be like, "I don't think you want to attack America's Freedom; I think you want to attack Hong Kong's Freedom".

10/28/2015 5:02:12 PM

Wolfman Tim
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Given the current price of oil, I think we have reclaimed the gold from them.


[Edited on October 31, 2015 at 9:08 PM. Reason : CAD was worth $.90 when thread created. Now worth $.76.]

10/31/2015 8:46:03 PM

0EPII1
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WINNING HEARTS AND MINDS: Syrian refugees are greeted by Canada’s Prime Minister
Justin Trudeau on their arrival from Beirut at the Toronto Pearson International Airport. (Reuters)


Quote :
"Trudeau Syrian refugees’ hero

GENEVA: Canada has set a humanitarian example by swiftly taking in some of the desperate Syrian refugees who continue to arrive in Europe in significant numbers in December, aid agencies said on Friday.

After months of promises and weeks of preparation, the first Canadian government planeload of Syrian refugees landed in Toronto, aboard a military aircraft met by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

The 163 refugees will be followed by a second military airlift to Montreal on Saturday. Trudeau has said 10,000 will be resettled by year-end and a further 15,000 by the end of February, fulfilling his government’s pledge to accept 25,000."


What an awesome dude!

[Edited on December 12, 2015 at 10:26 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2015 10:24:44 PM

0EPII1
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He is just getting awesomer and awesomer by the day.

Watch the video: https://www.facebook.com/macleans/videos/10153692342753950/

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/justin-trudeau-takes-on-donald-trump/

12/20/2015 1:19:34 AM

0EPII1
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This dude is awesome.

https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/674124782729032

America needs someone like him.

1/23/2016 1:21:18 PM

0EPII1
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Imagine Trump sitting in a local mosque chilling with the Maazlims like this powerful white dude.

5/3/2016 4:44:14 AM

0EPII1
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Oh great, Canada's Trump on a roll to unseat Trudeau

Kevin O'Leary: Canada's Donald Trump?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39010813

Quote :
"An outspoken businessman who found fame on American reality TV is betting the wave of populist sentiment will help him upend Canada's political establishment.

"People are tired of politicians spinning them BS. They're done. They'd like to hire an operator, someone who has executional excellence, that puts together tasks and brings great people together to perform and delivers results." O'Leary said in an interview with the BBC."


Totally sounds like Trump.

2/22/2017 3:42:32 AM

JCE2011
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Its almost as if leftists become less and less popular the longer they are allowed to mess shit up

2/22/2017 9:00:45 AM

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