http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/09/10/restaurant-owner-refuses-to-apologize-for-tip-shaming-a-nfl-player/

9/11/2014 12:48:12 PM

oh look, a tipping thread

9/11/2014 12:51:01 PM

tips are purely optional, and you aren't a bad person if you don't do it

the prices are plainly marked on the menu, and those prices don't say anything about tips

9/11/2014 4:00:02 PM

Quote :

"you aren't a bad person if you don't do it"

is a dick the same thing as a bad person, or...?

9/11/2014 4:02:25 PM

so if a waiter keeps forgetting you exist, gets your drinks wrong and your food wrong,

youre a dick for not tipping?

9/11/2014 4:07:40 PM

as someone who has waited tables for a decade, you are a fucking asshole if you don't tip in this country. It's not the same in other countries, but server's get paid 2.13 an hour here so basically all their income is from tips. Not tipping is a huge huge huge dick move and if you can't afford to fucking tip, don't fucking go out to eat.

you don't work for free, why would you expect that of someone who IS SERVING YOUR FOOD

9/11/2014 4:09:12 PM

^^If that's the case, then no. Although that may be occurring because the waiter is extremely busy and overworked. So if that's the case, then yes. And otherwise, also yes. Especially if you're a millionaire.

[Edited on September 11, 2014 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2014 4:09:48 PM

if i got shitty service, i wouldn't tip.

but i don't get shitty service. probably because i'm so fly.

9/11/2014 4:13:53 PM

here we go again

9/11/2014 4:14:40 PM

if you get bad service, you should probably look around and see the cause. Is the restaurant understaffed and completely packed? if that's the case, it's not your server's fault. it's whoever scheduled 3 people for the rush hour shift. if your server is looking like they are running around and trying to get a million things done at once, and at least attempting to give you good service even if they're not quite accomplishing it, give them a break.

if they are just incompetent, blatantly ignoring you or just talking it up in a corner while you've been waiting for them to ask you if you need anything then yea they obviously don't give 2 fucks about what you're tipping them. but I've very rarely had that be the case. I did however have it happen recently and I complained to the manager. That's bullshit.

9/11/2014 4:15:57 PM

Quote :

"if they are just incompetent, blatantly ignoring you or just talking it up in a corner while you've been waiting for them to ask you if you need anything then yea they obviously don't give 2 fucks about what you're tipping them. but I've very rarely had that be the case. I did however have it happen recently and I complained to the manager. That's bullshit."

well that's what i mean by shitty service.

9/11/2014 4:17:57 PM

If I ran a shitty burger joint with poor service, I would namedrop McCoy online in an effort to drum up business too.

9/11/2014 4:22:24 PM

It sounds like the server was slobbering over McCoy so I highly doubt he got bad service

But I also believe him when he says to ask around other Philly restaurants about his tipping habits. He probably has left some giant tips at some places.

The most important thing is that he produces well for me on my fantasy team this year. I used a 1st round pick on him.

9/11/2014 4:29:38 PM

Quote :

"It sounds like the server was slobbering over McCoy so I highly doubt he got bad service"

The waiter was interviewed... he was indeed slobbering over McCoy, so much so that he forgot their app, messed up order, had to be called to the table for anything vs checking in, brought the food then never went back except to bring bill, and made them to get drinks from the bar. He felt they were rude to him though.... So he was justified in completely failing at his job.

9/11/2014 4:40:11 PM

Quote :

"so much so that he forgot their app, messed up order, had to be called to the table for anything vs checking in, brought the food then never went back except to bring bill, and made them to get drinks from the bar. He felt they were rude to him though"

Where's that info from?

9/11/2014 4:50:33 PM

Quote :

"so if a waiter keeps forgetting you exist, gets your drinks wrong and your food wrong, youre a dick for not tipping? "

your initial statement implies that it's OK not to tip for whatever arbitrary reason you have concocted in your mind. the rest of us draw the line somewhere around poor service, and even then it's not always the servers fault (i.e. kitchen fucking up, understaffed, etc).

[Edited on September 11, 2014 at 5:22 PM. Reason : .]

9/11/2014 5:20:31 PM

youre taking money out of their pockets if you ever tip less than 10%

9/11/2014 5:23:56 PM

Quote :

"youre taking money out of their pockets if you ever tip less than 10%"

DO TELL

9/11/2014 5:28:12 PM

wait staff has to tip out a good chunk of their tips. people who've never worked a day in their lives in the restaurant industry ITT...

9/11/2014 5:30:36 PM

UJustWait getting trolled ITT

9/11/2014 5:44:05 PM

9/11/2014 6:18:54 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "It sounds like the server was slobbering over McCoy so I highly doubt he got bad service" The waiter was interviewed... he was indeed slobbering over McCoy, so much so that he forgot their app, messed up order, had to be called to the table for anything vs checking in, brought the food then never went back except to bring bill, and made them to get drinks from the bar. He felt they were rude to him though.... So he was justified in completely failing at his job."

It's kind of dumb this is even a big issue in the news...

But considering the reviews of this restaurant all say the service is bad and servers in other restaurants saying he does tip good, I'm more inclined to believe mccoys side of the story.

9/11/2014 6:47:46 PM

I heard once that if I don't tip the restaurant has to make up the difference to get you to $7.25/hr, and I feel like the restaurant needs to take some responsibility in actually paying the people they hire, so that's why I don't tip.

9/11/2014 7:45:18 PM

I don't tip because I keep my cash in the bottom pocket of my cargo shorts so I can never reach it

9/11/2014 7:53:49 PM

They don't tip in Europe and Europe is way better than America in every imaginable way.

9/11/2014 7:58:35 PM

I pay gratuity when someone provides excellent service. I do not pay gratuity when I get shity service. I work hard for my money too.

9/11/2014 9:06:44 PM

Quote :

"wait staff has to tip out a good chunk of their tips."

No shit.

But tipping 8% instead of 15% doesn't "take money out of their pockets," it just puts less in there to begin with

9/11/2014 9:09:34 PM

Outside of having an awful waiter if you go to a sit down restaurant and do not tip at least 15% I will think you're an asshole

[Edited on September 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM. Reason : Ive never worked at a restaurant. ]

[Edited on September 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM. Reason : M]

9/11/2014 9:38:51 PM

I pay gratuity when someone provides excellent service. I do not pay gratuity when I get shity service. I work hard for my money too.

9/11/2014 9:47:04 PM

I do not and never will understand why tipping is a percentage versus it's own independant variable. If you've worked hard or I've been difficult and you're a good sport about it with awesome customer service, you'll get a nice tip regardless if I had a $5 burger or a $40 steak.

[Edited on September 11, 2014 at 9:59 PM. Reason : .]

9/11/2014 9:58:22 PM

I think this is worse than Ray Rice

9/11/2014 10:45:28 PM

Tipping when its a NFL player

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

9/11/2014 11:50:46 PM

Bottom line....Dont fuck with people who handle your food. Servers remember bad tippers, so unless you never plan on eating in the restaurant again, you better fucking leave something more than pocket change. Its a crying shame that this has to even be an issue. Leave 20%, 15% at the least, and shut the fuck up ... or get it to go.

9/12/2014 12:04:29 AM

I never fucked with people's food, even if i remembered they were a bad tipper.

But when I was bartending, I would go out of my way to skip/ignore/cheat bad tippers whenever I had the chance. Don't fuck with someone who can REALLY make your night suck.

9/12/2014 12:28:56 AM

Quote :

" I heard once that if I don't tip the restaurant has to make up the difference to get you to $7.25/hr"

Thats legally correct. So for whatever the minimum wage is (currently $7.25/hr), if you dont make enough tips to equal that amount on a per hour basis legally the restaurant is required to pay you the $2.xx base pay and the difference to get to that min wage.

It's literally written on that little federal min wage poster every restaurant/small business has posted on their internal bulletin board. Tired of hearing that someone only got paid $2.xx an hour, that just isnt the case unless some shady shit is going on. It's on them to get the restaurant onboard and compensated when required whether it was a slow night or the owner is just a dick.

9/12/2014 2:09:57 AM

The restaurant business is full of shady shit, and I don't think it's on employees to make their employers follow the law. That's a quick way to become an ex-employee.

Even assuming all restaurant managers are legit, this line of reasoning -- that you don't need to tip because the restaurant will get them to minimum wage -- is a dodge, a shitty little rationalization that lets shitty little individuals opt out of the system.

There's a tragedy of the commons situation here. If you and a couple of other dicks decline to tip, no big deal. The servers lose a few bucks, but since most people tip they'll stay over minimum wage. But maybe more and more people decide to try this. Maybe half of people quit tipping. Now suddenly a lot of servers aren't making enough tips to get to minimum wage, and their employers have to start paying the difference. That money doesn't just appear out of the ether. To cover the new expense, restaurants have to start charging more. Now everybody is getting screwed, because we've got a fixed price increase and can't adjust what we pay with the quality of the service. And, of course, the tipping population is extra-screwed, because now they're paying their share and then some.

---

The point, then, is that any effort to dress up an anti-tipping argument is bullshit. Not tipping is purely selfish. Defecting from the tipping norm only benefits the defectors when they are in the minority. If everybody bowed out, we'd just have to pay more for food, so we're back to square one -- worse, even. But that's not the situation. Enough people are halfway decent human beings that you get to freeload on them, enjoying the benefits of a tipping society without having to pony up.

9/12/2014 7:27:05 AM

Quote :

"restaurants have to start charging more. "

I have no other input than to ask... is their profit margin that tight ? (I know nothing about food services business)

9/12/2014 7:51:25 AM

i wish they would just include the tip in the price of the food, pay the workers market value, and be done with this crap.

9/12/2014 7:56:33 AM

^^ Most restaurants set their food costs at about 30-35%%. So that $10 meal you just paid for cost them $3 to make. And that's BEFORE they factor in employee salary, rent, utilities, etc. So yeah, it can be pretty tight. Most restaurants make their big money off of booze, but there are plenty that can make good money off of food if it is done right.

9/12/2014 8:03:13 AM

^I've heard that soft drinks are a money maker too.

I paid $2.79 for one the other night... shoulda bought a damn beer.

9/12/2014 8:09:18 AM

i tip 30%+ when i get terrible service

i don't tip when my server provides a great dining experience.

it balances out all the people who don't tip good servers.

9/12/2014 8:11:44 AM

Quote :

"I have no other input than to ask... is their profit margin that tight ? (I know nothing about food services business)"

Have you ever known a business to take a hit to profit and not try to make it up somehow?

Restaurants are a notoriously difficult business and the vast majority close down within a few years of opening. Just about the only one that's less likely to succeed is the bar. Unless you count the founders of fast food enterprises, I've never heard of anybody becoming wealthy by starting or owning a restaurant.

There is a tolerably good book, Waiter Rant, that's basically the front-of-house version of Kitchen Confidential. The same author went on to write Keep the Change, a book about tipping. I've read all three.

Tipping was popularized in the mid/late 1800s, largely by the Pullman company that made fancy train cars. They figured out that they could stop paying the black guys that worked in these cars and then guilt the rich people that used them into paying them gratuity instead. People who weren't pure evil thought that this was terrible and railed against the idea of tipping, not because it was a pain to customers but because it was an injustice to workers. We know how this war of ideas worked out.

One of the reasons tipping won out was because restaurant owners saw it as a great way to slash costs. If you take that ability away from them, they will make that money up somewhere else. Food will cost more, quality will be lower, there will be fewer staff, something. But no restaurant owner on Earth, faced with the prospect of having to pay up to $5/hr more for their waitstaff is just going to eat that cost.

As I understand it, this is one reason why the minimum wage debate with fast food workers is getting so wild back home. You don't tip guys at McDonald's. Those guys point out, rightly, that you can't live off McDonald's pay. McDonald's, also rightly, points out that money doesn't just come out of nowhere, and if they have to start paying $15/hr for employees, that'll mean big changes (probably fewer employees and more automation). Meanwhile regular waiters are insulated a little bit from minimum wage changes because a decent waiter with a decent shift is going to make enough in tips.

9/12/2014 9:34:47 AM

Quote :

"Just about the only one that's less likely to succeed is the bar."

You mean more likely right?

9/12/2014 9:38:06 AM

Huh? No. I'm not sure how you could possibly have gotten that, and if it's a joke, I don't get it.

9/12/2014 9:59:11 AM

If this guy's service was that shitty leave no tip. It's plain insulting to leave $.20, and only causes more problems.

I think it'd be easier to defend not tipping at all for shitty service, if that's the player's claim.

9/12/2014 10:01:33 AM

^^ Why are bars less likely to succeed than the average restaurant? I would think bars have a higher chance of success because they just sell alcohol, at 300-400% profit margins without as much overhead as restaurants.

[Edited on September 12, 2014 at 10:05 AM. Reason : I guess the barriers to entry are lower thus the potential for mis-management is higher...]

9/12/2014 10:02:18 AM

why would i tip an NFL player in the first place?

does the NFL not pay them minimum wage?

9/12/2014 10:09:29 AM

Quote :

"I've never heard of anybody becoming wealthy by starting or owning a restaurant."

You need to get out more...or get the fuck out of Africa. There are plenty of people making a ton of money off of restaurants and bars. I think you've just read about horror stories. There are plenty of success stories as well.


^^ I think you're right in general. Its difficult though because there aren't a ton of straight up bars. Most bars have some food and most restaurants have at the very least, small bars. Even well run bars can fail if they fuck up the food. And really nice restaurants should have good wine programs and cocktail lists. That being said...it definitely costs less to make a vodka soda then it does to make an appetizer of mussels.

[Edited on September 12, 2014 at 11:14 AM. Reason : .]

9/12/2014 11:10:27 AM

Quote :

"It's literally written on that little federal min wage poster every restaurant/small business has posted on their internal bulletin board. Tired of hearing that someone only got paid $2.xx an hour, that just isnt the case unless some shady shit is going on. It's on them to get the restaurant onboard and compensated when required whether it was a slow night or the owner is just a dick."

pretty much this. every establishment is required to post this in their back room and also the workman's comp poster thingie. if the business doesn't honor this, u can just show the department of labor your paystub and get them fined. a restaurant employee will say almost anything to guilt people into tipping more because they are over-entitled little bitchezz.

9/12/2014 11:20:03 AM

If you're a server and your service is lacking due to staffing, management, etc. issues and you are getting bad tips, then you should be directing your anger at the responsible parties, e.g. management, etc. Also, you should be angry with management, ownership, your industry, and government for having this less-than-minimum wage bullshit and forcing this tipping culture on everyone else, which has now spilled into most service industries, those with "full" wages. This tipping shit is a scam.

[Edited on September 12, 2014 at 11:57 AM. Reason : .]

9/12/2014 11:57:23 AM