http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/14/pledge.ruling.ap/index.html

Quote :

"Judge declares Pledge unconstitutional Wednesday, September 14, 2005; Posted: 2:21 p.m. EDT (18:21 GMT) SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist who lost his previous battle before the U.S. Supreme Court. U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God." Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools. Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed."

[Edited on September 14, 2005 at 3:13 PM. Reason : ---]

9/14/2005 3:13:30 PM

Good.

I really don't care if "under god" is in the pledge, but kids obviously shouldn't be forced to say it. Actually, kids shouldn't be forced to pledge allegiance to anything, especially not in religious context.

9/14/2005 3:16:40 PM

9/14/2005 3:20:38 PM

^
looks like CrazyJ has some code to fix

9/14/2005 3:41:55 PM

ehe

9/14/2005 3:42:24 PM

damn this country is turning into a bunch of easily offended pussies

9/14/2005 3:45:37 PM

I don't give a fuck one way or another, but I can bet you there's a hell of a lot more people that would be a hell of a lot more offended if it was taken out, than left in

9/14/2005 3:52:04 PM

Quote :

"I really don't care if "under god" is in the pledge, but kids obviously shouldn't be forced to say it"

thats long settled, kids dont have to stand and cant be forced to say it, the issue in these cases is whether teachers or schools can simply recite it before the class.

9/14/2005 4:02:09 PM

Quote :

"damn this country is turning into a bunch of easily offended pussies"

9/14/2005 4:10:34 PM

I want the original pledge of allegiance reinstated.

[Edited on September 14, 2005 at 4:15 PM. Reason : I'M AN ORIGINALIST!]

9/14/2005 4:15:08 PM

along with the original pledge salute

9/14/2005 4:18:40 PM

what 6yr old kid is going to rise in protest against his teacher backed w/ constitutional quotes? kids that age don't know any better and will always do what everyone else and their elders are doing. theyre not FORCED to say it, but i bet every one does

9/14/2005 4:31:31 PM

Quote :

": 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'"

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

9/14/2005 4:40:41 PM

Quote :

"dannydigtl: theyre not FORCED to say it, but i bet every one does"

what schools did you go to?

---

As for the decision itself, anyone want to place bets on whether the Supreme Court punts it again instead of making a decision?

On the merits, I'm with umbrellaman...

Quote :

"umbrellaman: Why do the people have to pledge their allegiance to the government? The people aren't suppose to serve the government, the government is suppose to serve the people."

[Edited on September 14, 2005 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ---]

9/14/2005 4:50:54 PM

actually, I haven't seen it done down here.

When I lived in New England, I did it every day.

9/14/2005 4:53:48 PM

i grew up in SC....and during my "rebellious days" i wouldnt stand up or say the pledge.

i was such a bad ass.

9/14/2005 4:55:58 PM

9/14/2005 5:05:27 PM

Quote :

"thats long settled, kids dont have to stand and cant be forced to say it, the issue in these cases is whether teachers or schools can simply recite it before the class."

I know. BTW, contrary to popular belief, being a young communist was not a requirement in the Soviet Union despite the fact that 99.999999% of people were. Being a 8 year old you could exercise your right not to join the organization. Of course, other 8 year olds had their right to react to that as their saw fit. Teh T0tal Freed0m, you know...

When I personally didn't behave like young communists were supposed to, other kids decided (completely by themselves!1) to write a play about bad kids in school. They also (completely by themselves!1) decided to be actors in that play. My recollection is that I enjoyed the play quite a bit, since if I'm not mistaken 9 out 10 scenes were about me (and who doesn't want to be popular?!!1)

So I agree, it is completely reasonable to assume that a kid in a public school setting would freely go against everybody else should they choose so. It's not like one can see practical consequences to doing so in a real school environment.

9/14/2005 5:12:36 PM

Nobody really gave me any shit when I wouldn't stand or say the pledge.

9/14/2005 6:22:53 PM

^^In Soviet Russia, play acts out you!!1

[Edited on September 14, 2005 at 6:40 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2005 6:32:26 PM

^
"In Mother Russia, plays act out you!!1"

thought I'd clean that up a bit

---

Quote :

"Gamecat: Nobody really gave me any shit when I wouldn't stand or say the pledge."

Cultural differences. In the US it's the cool kids that go around challenging authority

9/14/2005 6:53:17 PM

No.

It was nothing like that.

There wasn't the slightest element of "cool" to it.

9/14/2005 6:56:05 PM

^^I had the plurality mismatched on purpose.

9/14/2005 7:22:52 PM

And so are race to make sure that nobody is forced to stand out in school continues at a breakneck pace.

9/14/2005 7:31:57 PM

how many 8 year old kids think about what the pledge means when they say it?

this shit is pointless

9/14/2005 8:13:48 PM

most of them say invisible anyways, that is if there is actually a coherant word in their mumbling.

9/14/2005 9:11:14 PM

one nation, under God

if you dont like it, quit bitching like a little girl who dropped her snow cone

or else, move the fuck out

9/14/2005 9:24:36 PM

A STUNNING OPEN-MINDED RESPONSE!

9/14/2005 9:29:36 PM

Quote :

"The Coz: ^^I had the plurality mismatched on purpose."

sry

---

Quote :

"Gamecat: No. It was nothing like that. There wasn't the slightest element of "cool" to it."

Ah, I guess maybe it's b/c I came from a military city then. It was only the not-cool kids that conformed to The Man by reciting the pledge

There were at most 3-4 of us in any given 25-30 student class...

[Edited on September 14, 2005 at 9:57 PM. Reason : ---]

9/14/2005 9:56:39 PM

GOD WANTS US TO BE PROUD

9/15/2005 12:18:02 PM

Quote :

"Why do the people have to pledge their allegiance to the government? The people aren't suppose to serve the government, the government is suppose to serve the people."

allegiance doesnt mean to serve

9/15/2005 1:01:48 PM

^
gg for being pedantic and not answering the question...

9/15/2005 1:06:52 PM

i got an idea...how bout we throw out meaningless piddly cases like this from the start and actually have the courts decide things that are worth a damn

9/15/2005 1:07:44 PM

^^

um the question is fucking stupid since he equates 'pledging allegiance to something' to 'being a servant to something'.

Nor does the pledge actually say anything about the government. The closest it comes is 'Republic' which could be interpreted in multiple ways, but definately isnt a synonym for government.

As to answeriing the question; You can be a douche and not pledge your allegience if you want I suppose. I look at it as saying ' I am thankful/proud to be an American, and would not work to do something adverse towards the nation I am a member of'.

9/15/2005 3:40:14 PM