Quote :

""There were never weapons of mass destruction but Iraq was bombed, and over U.N. objections, (it was) occupied and continues being occupied," Chavez said. Bush alleged that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction but none have been found, shattering one of his main arguments for going to war. "That's why we propose to this assembly that the United Nations leave this country, which is not respectful of the very resolutions of this assembly," Chavez said."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-un-chavez,0,3395650.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

I'm not sure how I feel about this idea....

9/17/2005 1:19:28 AM

Let 'em move it, but don't make us pay a dime for that shit. We've got a perfectly good building as-is, and if Venezuela wants a new one they can fork over the dough.

9/17/2005 2:26:53 AM

I agree with Grumpy.

It's obvious that the Bush administration is no friend of the UN. And not without good reason.

Parting with the UN will undoubtedly bring many Americans to tears, but as long as my tax dollars don't go towards any part of it, I think I'll be able to cope.

[Edited on September 17, 2005 at 8:16 AM. Reason : ]

9/17/2005 7:54:48 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/09/16/chavez.ap/index.html

9/17/2005 9:21:02 AM

Thank you, Pat Robertson!

9/17/2005 9:47:44 AM

Quote :

"That is to say if the government of the United States attempts to commit the foolhardy enterprise of attacking us, it would be embarked on a 100-year war. We are prepared.""

Ha ha. We've taken over two countries on the other side of the planet, can you imagine the relief of our armed forces if we once again invaded something just a thousand miles off the coast? In the same time zone, no less.

That said, Venezuela needs invading, but not yet... Give the guy 10 more years or so to finish destroying the country first, then we will be greeted as liberators. Just as we would have been 10 years ago in Iraq...

9/17/2005 9:52:36 AM

why the fuck does venezuela "need" invading?

YOU PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO SOUND LIKE FUCKING HITLER SOMETIMES

the american way is so perfect that anyone who isn't doing just like us must surely need to be taken over

fucking a

democracy has become the new "master race"

9/17/2005 12:03:20 PM

Quote :

"Woodfoot: democracy has become the new "master race""

Basically.

The real crazy thing is that Democrats actually used to embrace that kind of stuff...

9/17/2005 12:22:16 PM

well wilson would have been democracy as the master race and just for the master race

screw all those tan people who thought they could just show up in paris and get themselves a country

[Edited on September 17, 2005 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2005 12:30:19 PM

^^ thats what's really scary.

9/17/2005 1:53:35 PM

Quote :

"Give the guy 10 more years or so to finish destroying the country first, then we will be greeted as liberators."

Yes, OBVIOUSLY! That communist dictator Chavez is running the country into the ground. Observe:

Quote :

"Venezuela’s Economy Grew 9.3% in First Half of 2005"

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1742

9/17/2005 2:36:07 PM

let them move it

then we can go ahead and bomb them like we want to

9/17/2005 2:48:15 PM

^^ You realize that's a random, meaningless graphic of an upward pointing arrow?

Kind of like the Mobile Weapons Labs.

9/17/2005 3:10:46 PM

no shit, genius

it's also in the linked article

9/17/2005 3:12:35 PM

^^^^whats their productivity growth rate?

Almost all communist countries experience good economic growth early on as a result of capital accumulation.

9/17/2005 4:47:57 PM

someone post a graph of crude prices for the first half of 2005...

9/17/2005 4:48:22 PM

^ Here you go:

9/17/2005 5:27:36 PM

^ ahahaha

9/17/2005 7:26:50 PM

is that a log log plot

or a retarded vs speculation plot?

9/17/2005 8:04:04 PM

And what are the units of the axes? Venezualan fucktards versus hectares of rainforest?

9/17/2005 8:20:22 PM

OSAMA BIN CHAVEZ!!!!111

9/17/2005 10:20:18 PM

Quote :

"According to the bank, most of this economic growth occurred in the non-oil sectors of the economy, which grew by 12.2% in the second quarter, while the oil sector grew by a mere 2.5%. If one compares the private and public sectors of the economy, the private sector expanded far more rapidly, by 13.1%, compared to the public sector, which grew only by 4.5%."

9/17/2005 10:40:52 PM

Quote :

"Venezuela continues to be highly dependent on the petroleum sector, accounting for roughly one-third of GDP, around 80% of export earnings, and over half of government operating revenues. A disastrous two-month national oil strike from December 2002 to February 2003, temporarily halted economic activity. The economy remained in depression in 2003, declining by 9.2% after an 8.9% fall in 2002. Despite continued domestic instability, output recovered strongly in 2004, aided by high oil prices. Both inflation and unemployment remain fundamental problems."

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html#Econ

If Chavez is wrong and Oil doesn't hit $100 but instead falls, then his socialist government will drive the economy to peices. I didn't mean to say it would hit the ground, it obviously will still have an economy, it just will suck.

9/17/2005 10:43:21 PM

and he'll be doing as well or better than the folks before him

9/17/2005 10:44:43 PM

DON'T CRY FOR ME VENEZUAA...uh...nm...

9/17/2005 11:22:06 PM

So Chavez has "proof" that his country will be invaded? Sounds like Salisburyboy as a head of state.

9/17/2005 11:47:24 PM

its fucking Nicaragua all over again. Fuck Reagan for causing that mess.

What fucking interest would anyone have in invading this country? Leave them alone. They're not a threat to anyone. I know people who spent the summer there, and they said it was your typical Latin American country. You people are fucking dumb to advocate any war or embargo with them (which we'll probably get) yay, lets go kill off a mixed, socialist run economy again

bush doesnt make me sad to be an american, but shit like this almost does.

9/18/2005 12:46:25 AM

Quote :

"What fucking interest would anyone have in invading this country?"

Well... oil.

[FACETIOUS] That and he sure has been uppity lately. (Not that I'd ever use that as justification for invading a country.) [/FACETIOUS]

As for moving the UN? Let them!

It's in a fine spot right now, but if they want to move it somewhere else, let them. As long as I'm not paying for it.

[Edited on September 18, 2005 at 1:23 AM. Reason : LOOKS LIKE WE NEED NEW TAGS]

9/18/2005 1:16:29 AM

so we wanted to deny that oil was ever a reason to go to iraq...

but its worth invading a country thats doing better than them for

seems like you wouldnt want to expend american blood on this unless they, you know, attacked the US.

9/18/2005 1:21:46 AM

democracy is the new master race

9/18/2005 2:27:06 AM

Osama Bin Laden:

"Wanted, Dead or alive."
-Bush

9/18/2005 2:31:32 AM

Good thing Chavez was elected then, I guess...

9/18/2005 2:46:26 AM

So was Ortega in Nicaragua

Hell, he actually lost an election later on in 1990, like in any normal democracy

But he bought arms from the DIRTY DIRTY EVIL SOVIET UNION, and sponsored a mixed economy, and kept a strong standing army (b/c, you know, they kept being attacked by those awesome fascist freedom fighters from Honduras Ronnie loved so much) so Ronnie insisted on a full embargo to kill their mixed economy.

9/18/2005 1:18:02 PM

^ Luigi, who here is advocating invading Venezuela but Chavez himself?

We are not going to invade this year or next year (barring Chavez's actions).

An Embargo would not be out of the question, but it would only be in response to widespread American property confiscation, as it was with Cuba.

If he pays for the shit he steals from Americans, then the American government isn't going to invade. Short and Simple. If we are sabre rattling it is because Venezuela has already begun confiscating American property, luckily its still the exception rather than the rule. But if the price of oil falters, Venezuela will step up the rate of confiscation, and that is what our government wishes to dissuade.

9/18/2005 1:47:16 PM

^

Quote :

"That said, Venezuela needs invading, but not yet... "

Not sure who this guy was, but it seems pretty clear some people are thinking about it.

9/18/2005 2:00:07 PM

you people are fucking retarded.

especially loneshark

9/18/2005 2:01:34 PM

^^ Like I said, NOT YET!
I said specifically that 10 years from now should be the earliest.

Now, if you want to debate whether or not Venezuela is on the way down, just let us know. But don't talk like we're going to invade next month or something.

9/18/2005 2:33:00 PM

don't say they need invading then


kkthxu

9/18/2005 2:34:09 PM

I'LL SEE YOU IN TEN YEARS

MAKE SURE THIS THREAD DOESN'T GET LOCKED BY THEN

9/18/2005 5:33:06 PM

9/18/2005 5:45:22 PM

^want me to list the dictators the US has backed in the past 57 years?

stupid

9/18/2005 6:07:00 PM

Go for it. You leftwingers like to ignore that little thing called the Cold War anyway. It's not surprising that so many of you hold such a warm spot for Chavez, a man who uses our bill of rights as toilet paper in his own country.

9/18/2005 6:16:39 PM

1) im interested in what you were going to say about the cold war
2) off the top of my head:
Somoza, Hussein, The Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Marcos, Batista, Diem, Kai-Shek

this is in the last 57 years, theres more but im doing this from memory. I dont think any of these guys ever had anyone's rights in mind except their own. Were the oppositions any more just? Not really, but still, all I'm saying is that the US has had their hand in backing oppression, Soviets or no Soviets (and many of these guys weren't associated with them anyway).

I dont support Chavez, but I really dont support invasions based on business interests either.



[Edited on September 18, 2005 at 6:59 PM. Reason : oh yeah, almost forgot our pal Manuel Noriega]

9/18/2005 6:55:15 PM

You people make me sick. You once again have shown that you have no idea when it comes to the US on the international level. The UN has been fumbling and supporting corruption for years. I agree with the person who said they need invading...but I think 5 years might be more appropriate, before Communism takes a firmer hold in that region.

9/18/2005 11:09:55 PM

people still worry about communism?

9/18/2005 11:27:14 PM

Venezuala is the 4th largest supplier of oil to the US. China is looking for more oil because of their
industrial growth.

imports.
Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Jul-05 Jun-05 YTD 2005 Jul-04 Jan - July 2004
CANADA 1,613 1,705 1,607 1,667 1,628
SAUDI ARABIA 1,499 1,598 1,522 1,622 1,422
MEXICO 1,497 1,616 1,558 1,603 1,598
VENEZUELA 1,327 1,292 1,329 1,228 1,335
NIGERIA 1,047 1,012 1,041 1,020 1,094
IRAQ 615 608 558 593 648
ALGERIA 325 292 214 297 213
RUSSIA 324 116 264 206 137
KUWAIT 272 184 198 268 232
UNITED KINGDOM 256 269 231 264 262
ANGOLA 219 397 399 355 297
ECUADOR 217 288 278 249 205
COLOMBIA 172 227 147 83 147
BRAZIL 138 212 88 95 62
GABON 124 64 120 117 137


http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Quote :

"China’s eclipse of the United States as a consumer nation should be seen as another milestone along the path of its evolution as a world economic leader. Its record-high domestic savings and its huge trade surplus with the United States are but two of the more visible manifestations of its economic strength. It is now China, along with Japan, that is buying the U.S. treasury securities that enable the United States to run the largest fiscal deficit in history. The United States, the world’s leading debtor nation, is now heavily dependent on Chinese capital to underwrite its fast-growing debt. If China ever decides to divert this capital surplus elsewhere, either to internal investment or to the development of oil, gas, and mineral resources elsewhere in the world, the U.S. economy will be in trouble."

http://www.energybulletin.net/4357.html

Bush's reckless policies have endangered the economic security of the US>

[Edited on September 18, 2005 at 11:28 PM. Reason : c]

[Edited on September 18, 2005 at 11:30 PM. Reason : bah]

9/18/2005 11:28:24 PM

^goddamit ive been saying that for a year now

if you want to blame someone, blame china. oh, and if you want to invade them, by all means, knock yourself out. itll be the costliest, longest war the US has been in.

Yes, this is really stupid, but so is mentioning invading a country for business interest or to stop fucking communism. I thought Big Stick Diplomacy died in the 30's?

9/18/2005 11:40:16 PM

Why do we cut taxes in the middle of a war?

9/18/2005 11:41:36 PM

because no-bid contracts aren't enough for bush's rich friends
because, you see, i mean, they need that money


plus, he's out of a job in 3 years
he's gonna need something to fall back on
so, now he has favors to call in

9/19/2005 12:34:46 AM

You people deserve each other.

That said, I don't believe Venezuela will be invaded, even if he confiscates all the remaining Property belonging to US Citizens. The main reason, of course, is we've never invaded someone for merely being communist. They need to potentially threaten us, such as Cuba, or our allies, such as North Vietnam, or be a supporter of the drug trade, such as Panama, or become an immigration problem, such as Haiti.

While I believe Chavez will need removing in a decade or so, it won't happen. I forsee an embargo as the worse we will probably do, unless Chavez is an idiot. If he is smart, he can even avoid the embargo. It all depends on him and the advice he gets. And calling America names won't help, even if the shit he says is true.

If we are trying to kill him, keep it to himself and his defense force. If we get all upset because of some home, farm, or factory he confiscated, pretend to be sorry and promise to pay for it, even if you never do.

[Edited on September 19, 2005 at 9:36 AM. Reason : ...]

9/19/2005 9:35:24 AM