so what's your secret? i've got the rev matching part down pat but to do it while braking is a bit more difficult. i've tried both the actual "heel toe" method and the "roll your foot" method but either way i can't make it smooth and i feel like my foot is in an akward position. i either give it too much throttle or brake too hard or both. so clue me in guys...what did you do to learn an effective heel toe method? i've thought about getting some different style pedals to maybe help out.

9/29/2005 5:06:30 PM

I roll my foot. Easy to do in the trans am, very hard in the galant. Pedal position makes a big difference.

9/29/2005 5:16:55 PM

get pedals that are closer together. but your M3 ones are pretty close i assume.

both methods you listed are the right way. its just pretty much whatever is comfy with you. it takes a lot of getting use to since your feet are going to be awkward. also, smaller feet help out.

9/29/2005 5:17:57 PM

My size 13's just don't seem to support heel & toe...Maybe some different pedals would make it possible, but for all the times I've tried it has never seemed possible.

I just roll my foot. It is plenty wide to hit both pedals in everything I've driven thus far. When I first got my Saab I didn't think it would be possible with the pedal placement, but after a while it was easy. It just takes a while to get used to. At first, when you try to blip the throttle you'll accidentally jam the brake pedal down, but it will get smooth eventually.

I drove an E36 M3 a couple of weeks ago and it was cake compared to my Wrangler.

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 5:23 PM. Reason : s]

9/29/2005 5:22:13 PM

I learned to heel-toe in my Civic, so it was way easy when I got to the S2000...but I roll my foot, not true heel-toe. One good teaching method I saw that I've used a little bit is to use heel-toe to start on hills without rolling back. That, and just do it at every damn stoplight no matter how stupid you look at first, you learn eventually!

I decided the other day it was time to integrate double clutching with heel-toe, started thinking about how to do it, then realized I already was, lol.

9/29/2005 6:27:21 PM

Almost no one actually "heel and toe"s it. Its an older term that has hung on. The "roll" so to speak is what 90% of the people that say heel and toe are refering to.

9/29/2005 6:28:49 PM

^^ You know that rev-matching is not the same as double clutching, right? How do you not know if you are double clutching?

9/29/2005 6:53:58 PM

how long have you been practicing? shouldnt take too long..

9/29/2005 7:05:46 PM

you know double clutching is useless in our newer cars.

9/29/2005 7:46:27 PM

^ good point there.

but in my car without synchros i have to

9/29/2005 8:10:17 PM

all you fuckers swear you know how to "heel-toe". hahaha

shit.

i oughta let some of y'all drive an old mack fire engine.

that'll show ya how much you don't know.

if you can drive this decently, then you've done something.

9/29/2005 8:13:08 PM

^ok, where do i sign up for the test drive?

9/29/2005 10:49:42 PM

I brake and shift pretty much all the time - my car doesnt have much power so its not hard to match revs. Also my pedals are perfectly spaced - I just use the sides of my foot.

What is double clutching?

9/29/2005 10:57:49 PM

The pedals on the 300zx are kinda screwed up. I use my heel on the brake and toe on the gas. That's backwards, correct?

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 11:44 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2005 11:43:41 PM

I roll my foot, regardless of what I'm driving. I have size 13 feet.

Pedal spacing and height make all the difference. Get you some decent big ass pedal covers (the best you can find; most are total shit). For example, the way my Teg is set up right now, my brake pedal depresses too far for a really comfortable gas pedal roll. I need to space it up (with a rubber block under my cheap ass pedal cover). Regardless of spacing method, make damn sure it's good and secure. It's amazing how much a substantial pedal shift can fuck up your day (and your car).

BTW, underPSI...used to double clutch a '72 Mack DM600 twinstick sidewinder all day long. That truck was a hunk of shit, but I could drive the shit out of it. This was 16 years ago, by the way...

[Edited on September 30, 2005 at 12:02 AM. Reason : Got a Twin Stick Mack with a window in the back...]

9/30/2005 12:00:48 AM

don't try to roll while racing!!! (or on track for that matter....)

i do it driving around town... but never while racing... the last thing u wanna do in a braking zone is slip off that brake pedal!!! learn to heel toe the correct way! it may take getting a lower seat and some thin racing shoes... but i have never needed closer or bigger pedals in ANY car i have driven... once you learn how to do it you can heel-toe in any car... i've done it in a civic, integra, s2k, M3, e30, jeep wranger, mercedes c230k, dump truck, etc.!

9/30/2005 12:26:56 AM

practice

9/30/2005 12:45:10 AM

i also wear a 13 (odd) and i use the roll-over method. it is much much easier in the rabbit. im not sure if it is the pedal spacing, or the quirkiness of the drive-by-wire in the GTI. i never really had a problem with it in the rabbit, but it took a long time to get everything down so that it was smooth in the GTI. jsut keep practicing.. i usually only do it when slowing/downshifting for turns. it's kinda pointless if you're just stopping for a light.

fordHater - are you saying to not heel/toe at all on the track, or just don't do it by rolling your foot over? i can't do a proper heel/toe b/c my foot is too big

9/30/2005 1:39:28 AM

big feet play a big roll.

he is saying dont do the roll method. heel/toe is pretty much necessary on a track

9/30/2005 2:19:27 AM

jesus christ nigger

the fucking word is ROLE

not god damned ROLL

say it again motherfucker i dare you

9/30/2005 2:26:18 AM

yes... don't use the roll method while on track. if u feel confident enough that ur clown shoes won't slip off the brake, then be my guest. but all i know is, i wouldn't wanna go off trying to match some revs... just keep practicing the real method... you should be able to do it... 13 shoes isn't that much bigger than mine.

i have also found that it is easier to do when actually racing... when you are on the brakes much harder, the pedal is farther down and i think it's a lot easier to reach over w/ ur heel to blip the throttle. while on the street, you are not braking near as hard and your foot has to twist/rotate a lot more... that's why a lot of the time on the street i will just roll my foot. since i'm not braking hard, if i did slip off i would have plenty of time to go both feet in.

9/30/2005 8:24:00 AM

i guess i need to just keep on practicing and not get discouraged when i'm not shifting and braking smooth at first. one problem i feel i have is that my brake pedal is too far above my gas pedal. so to heel toe i have to really stretch my foot out to even get one toe on the gas. i can't even hit the gas if i try the role method. can the pedal height on the E36 M3 be adjusted?

9/30/2005 8:31:27 AM

^ & ^^

Between these two posts there is one obvious difference.

One person says to hit the gas with their heel while the other is trying to hit the gas with their toe.

9/30/2005 9:28:26 AM

DUDE YOU ARE RIGHT!!! I've been doiong it wrong all along! I've never had anyone coach me ( man i really need to make it to a HPDE) but most of what I have read said to brake with your heel and blip the throttle with your toe. I'll try it the other way around while driving today.

9/30/2005 10:18:37 AM

should i hold a heel-toe 101 clinic?

toe/ball of the foot is on brake pushing down while you rotate your heel to the gas to blip the throttle!

9/30/2005 10:36:06 AM

dont you NIG welders watch Best Motoring?

http://video.google.com

9/30/2005 11:46:48 AM

^^ i'd take you up on it

9/30/2005 11:55:25 AM

Quote :

"dont you NIG welders watch Best Motoring? "

actually, yes! back in the day, that is how i learned to heel-toe! i used to watch tons of best motoring/options videos! watch them! i never had anyone teach me, i just taught myself from watching those sweet pedal camera views (which i need to work on in my racecar!)

Quote :

"^^ i'd take you up on it"

i may could do something tonite or sat. any of u ricers up for a meat?

9/30/2005 12:05:30 PM

roll, role, rowl, LOL

[Edited on September 30, 2005 at 1:07 PM. Reason : ]

9/30/2005 1:07:09 PM

Quote :

"big feet play a big roll"

pwnt

9/30/2005 1:07:45 PM

i just saw that
haha

RLOL

[Edited on September 30, 2005 at 1:11 PM. Reason : ]

9/30/2005 1:08:03 PM

Quote :

"BTW, underPSI...used to double clutch a '72 Mack DM600 twinstick sidewinder all day long. That truck was a hunk of shit, but I could drive the shit out of it. This was 16 years ago, by the way..."

oh, i knew you'd know where i was coming from on that one. you are one of the few in here who has experience driving muliple vehicles. the old macks are in a class of its own. you can't shift by rpm's. you have to shift on the sound of the engine. most people don't know how to listen to an engine like we do!

9/30/2005 7:54:48 PM