From the Times-Picayune, Oct. 4:

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_10_04.html#084767

Quote :

"Pile of mud may be clue to levee failure ‘Heave' points to structural problem, not levee topping By John McQuaid Staff writer A child's clubhouse, built about 25 years ago by a civil engineer for his son, provides another clue pointing to possible design or construction flaws in the structural failures that breached two canal floodwalls and inundated the city during Hurricane Katrina. Engineer Gus Cantrell, 60, and son Daniel Cantrell, 33 &150; now a structural engineer himself &150; returned to the family's Pratt Drive house last week for the first time since Katrina struck. They discovered the old clubhouse sitting a few feet from its original location next to the London Avenue canal levee &150; on top of a pile of mud and silty sand about 8 feet high. The Cantrells believe that extreme pressure from high water pushed soil under the base of the floodwall away from the canal and upward in an arc, something known as a heave. That appears to have raised a mound of earth into the back yard under the clubhouse. The wooden clubhouse's base is now even with the edge of the house's roof, Daniel Cantrell said. Once that happened, the wall would have been compromised, not have been able to support itself," he said. That is different from initial theories offered by the Army Corps of Engineers that the floodwalls were topped by storm surge and raises more questions about design and construction. [...] A similar heave may have occurred at the breach in the 17th Street canal, where soil also appears to have been pushed forward and upward. [...] "We climbed over the debris to the clubhouse, which had two padlocks on it. Neither had been corroded," Daniel Cantrell said. "In the clubhouse, we found my son's bike &150; he's 5. It was hanging in there, no rust, no corrosion, no dirt, it had not gotten wet. There was a chest containing my grandfather's tools. They were in fine shape. It appears that the structure had not gotten wet at all." That suggests the heave occurred first, precipitating the wall's failure. The floodwall did not completely collapse, but the concrete panels were knocked askew, with gaps between them. "

Quote :

"Do you know what can heave the ground over and upwards 8 feet? Military-grade explosives for one. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/051005heavedupward.htm"

10/5/2005 11:38:48 AM

Quote :

"Do you know what can heave the ground over and upwards 8 feet? Military-grade explosives for one."

true. but so can other non-nefarious things. Its like watching a bus explode. Sure, military explosives could cause that to happen, but so could faulty wiring and improper sealing of the gas tank...

Nevermind the fact that this "argument" relies on the actual occurrance of the heave in the first place, something which itself hasn't been proven.

also, note what the engineers, themselves, said, something you yourself quoted and mostly bolded:

Quote :

"The Cantrells believe that extreme pressure from high water pushed soil under the base of the floodwall away from the canal and upward in an arc, something known as a heave."

pressure from high water. not explosives. but high water. And pressure from high water is a much simpler explanation, which makes it the more likely one, via whatever postulate postulates that.

10/5/2005 11:47:10 AM

I forget - what was the explanation behind the tsunami again?

so far we've got these disasters:

9/11: Caused by explosives buried under the WTC
N.O.: Caused by explosives buried under the levees
Tsunami: Caused by explosives buried under the ocean?

10/5/2005 12:01:51 PM

Giant Underground Tunneling Jews

10/5/2005 12:04:43 PM

Quote :

"Giant Underground Tunneling Jews"

nah, they just all got together and stuck a big tube into the ground and breathed out their noses into this tube collectively.

10/5/2005 12:11:09 PM

oh wait i get it

10/5/2005 12:14:53 PM

Is it weird that salisburyboy flips out whenever the media changes their story on an event, yet has absolutely no problem doing so himself? I seem to remember him making a fuss about loose barges taking out the levees.

10/5/2005 12:15:44 PM

Quote :

"I seem to remember him making a fuss about loose barges taking out the levees. "

Well, AS USUAL, you're wrong. I didn't ever claim that a loose barge broke the levee.

What I did was post a link to a story about witnesses claiming a loose barge broke the levee. Then shortly after that I posted other links to stories about witnesses claiming the levees were bombed.


[Edited on October 5, 2005 at 12:39 PM. Reason : 1]

10/5/2005 12:34:49 PM

1 can argue that when u post a link to an article and directly quote from it without stating a comment then u r actually supporting the article and what it has to say.

10/5/2005 12:38:40 PM

witnesses also claimed hundreds of people died in the olympic park bombings. witnesses who are terrified can't be trusted generally.

10/5/2005 12:40:27 PM

You guys want to talk about everything but the Times-Picayune article above.

Can you tell me how the water supposedly applied massive pressure below the levee to cause the ground to "heave" up 8 feet? Wouldn't the water just go over the levee? Why would it cause the ground to heave up 8 feet first...BEFORE breaching the levee line.

Explain that to me.

10/5/2005 12:42:16 PM

i'm not a civil or marine engineer so i cant explain it. i dont pretend to talk about somethin that i know nothing about. unfortunately i cant say the same for u.

10/5/2005 12:44:46 PM

Quote :

"Explain that to me."

ONLY IF YOU EXPLAIN THE TSUNAMI FIRST

p.s. salisburyboy has a degree in civil engineering, believe it or not

[Edited on October 5, 2005 at 12:46 PM. Reason : s]

10/5/2005 12:45:11 PM

Quote :

"ONLY IF YOU EXPLAIN THE TSUNAMI FIRST"

OMG! CHANGE THE SUBJECT!! DON'T LOOK AT THE Times-Picayune ARTICLE! NOTHING TO SEE THERE! LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!!

10/5/2005 12:46:26 PM

holy shit he has a degree in CE and still belives half this shit?? wow.

10/5/2005 12:48:53 PM

OMFG SALISBURYBOY IS COVERING UP THE TSUNAMI TRUTH

CONSPIRACY

LOOK AT HIM DODGE THE QUESTION


WHAT CAUSED THE TSUNAMI YOU BASTARD - I KNOW YOU'RE HIDING SOMETHING

10/5/2005 12:49:35 PM

he's hiding!!! he hasn't responded since I accused him of being behind the tsunami!!!

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING FROM SALISBURYBOY

10/5/2005 4:29:06 PM

Quote :

"Can you tell me how the water supposedly applied massive pressure below the levee to cause the ground to "heave" up 8 feet? Wouldn't the water just go over the levee? Why would it cause the ground to heave up 8 feet first...BEFORE breaching the levee line."

actually, its quite simple... there was a structural flaw in the building of the levee. Damn, that was hard, wasn't it? Water was not being properly retained and was actually forcing its way into weak parts of the levee and surrounding areas. It would have been OK, except for this crazy thing we call a "hurricane" that came in and dumped however much excess water onto the lake, thereby increasing the pressure of the water at the bottom of the levee. The limit of everything which was holding back water was reached. Given that the ground around sea level is, by definition, quite saturated with water, it wouldn't take too much force to create just such an upheaval of land, especially if the ground was already wet from, say, a strong thunderstorm...

10/5/2005 6:33:15 PM

A new "explantion" from the AUTHORITIES was needed after the evidence of massive earth movements underneath the levees was made public.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20051008/ap_on_re_us/katrina_flooding&cid=519&ncid=1112

Quote :

"Engineers: New Cause of New Orleans Flood By BRETT MARTEL, Associated Press Writer Sat Oct 8, 2005 NEW ORLEANS - Much of the city flooded not because water rushed over the tops of levees, but because two of the storm barriers that ring New Orleans actually shifted and then collapsed, a team of independent engineers said Friday. The preliminary analysis contradicts initial reports by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which said water may have pushed over the top of the levees, eroding the earthen embankments that support the flood walls. The independent engineers said the shifting of the barriers was understandable and did not assign blame or speculate about design flaws that the storm surge from Hurricane Katrina may have exposed. [...] The question of what caused the flooding at the 17th Street Canal and the London Avenue Canal has been debated since the storm. The findings Friday show that soil from one levee was pushed back 35 feet, and that soil from the other apparently heaved upward from its base."

So, the OFFICIAL "explanation" seems to be that the water somehow caused soil underneath the levee to push back 35 feet and the ground to heave up 8 feet. Amazing. Kind of like how WTC 7 and the twin towers were clearly demolished with explosives, then the government AUTHORITIES would have us believe that fire caused the collapses of these modern steel reinforced skyscrapers (which has NEVER occured).

See, it is the government that is espousing crackpot/crazy "conspiracy theories." Their theories turn common sense, science, and engineering on its head.

10/11/2005 3:02:20 PM

you know, you have your own special brand of stupid.

10/11/2005 3:07:28 PM

If it's "stupid" to see the obvious, such as that WTC 7 and the twin towers were demolished with explosives, then I guess I'm "stupid."

10/11/2005 3:11:29 PM

Quote :

"A new "explantion" from the AUTHORITIES was needed after the evidence of massive earth movements underneath the levees was made public."

Well, no. First there was speculation, then an analysis by engineers. No one is changing the story here, little buddy.

10/11/2005 3:13:09 PM

Damn, with all this work going on I need to shift my investments to explosives manufacturing and distribution.

10/11/2005 3:17:59 PM

if you believe that wtc 7 and twin towers bullshit, then yes you are so fucking stupid it's extraordinary that you can feed yourself.

10/11/2005 3:29:31 PM

i bet spaceships can also heave a wall 8 ft

SEE IT WAS ALIENS

10/11/2005 3:30:54 PM

It was invisible dragons. Prove me wrong.

10/11/2005 3:33:10 PM

really though there might be some shady-ness that results from this but if it happens it will be from engineers trying to cover their ass if there was a design problem with the leevees

10/11/2005 3:33:33 PM

Quote :

"if you believe that wtc 7 and twin towers bullshit, then yes you are so fucking stupid it's extraordinary that you can feed yourself"

Even brianj320 agrees that WTC 7 was brought down in a controlled demolition (see page 35 of 9/11 thread). It's OBVIOUS that WTC 7 was brought down in a controlled demolition. The WTC Complex leaseholder, Larry Silverstein, ADMITTED IT.

10/11/2005 3:39:54 PM

you used to say the toweres were controlled

10/11/2005 3:47:45 PM

I never stopped. I still say the twin towers were brought down in controlled demolitions. Like with WTC 7, the evidence proving it is irrefutable. It is a proven fact that the twin towers were brought down with explosives.

10/11/2005 3:50:38 PM

AAHAHAHAHHAH

IRREFUTABLE

AHAHAHAHA

10/11/2005 3:52:05 PM

ps its a proven fact salisburyboy is a jew working for the government
also he is secretely having relations with his sister
there is irrefutable evidence, its a fact

PROVE IM WRONG

10/11/2005 3:53:36 PM

Does an exploding plane count as an explosive?

10/11/2005 3:59:46 PM

of course not that. It was just by chance to 767's hit twc on the day they fell. Salisbury steak could of told you that.

10/11/2005 4:03:10 PM

that footage was filmed by jews on a movie set

10/11/2005 4:03:58 PM

Bombs in the WTC towers? Here's just a little of the evidence proving explosives in the towers. Compelling videos of eyewitness testimony...

Reporter describes explosion just before tower collapse
http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.reporter.2.wmv

Witness stating he heard explosions and then three thuds just before collapse
http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.1.wmv

"All of a sudden I heard a roar and I saw one of the towers blow ...
I saw from street level as though it exploded up, a giant rolling ball of flame..."
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.carol.marin.wmv

Witness interviewed on television stating "it sounded like gunfire . . . . bang bang bang bang bang . . . and then three big explosions"
http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.2.wmv

MSNBC reporter stated "I heard a second explosion" around 10:30am
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.msnbc.2.wmv

Same reporter stated that the force of the explosions overturned cars and set them on fire
http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.ann.thompson.cars.wmv

Firefigher: "We really never even got that close to the building. The explosion blew and it knocked everybody over."
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.the.explosion.blew.wmv


Watching those should take all of 4-5 minutes out of your day. Do you have the courage to face the truth though?


[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:12 PM. Reason : 3]

10/11/2005 4:04:11 PM

Quote :

"Here's just a little of the evidence proving explosives in the towers."

This proves nothing. You have a 35+ page thread about this that proves just as little. In the future, please limit your 9/11 rantings to the 9/11 ranting thread.

Quote :

"Do you have the courage to face the truth though?"

Do you have the courage to seek the help that you need? I'm here for you, little buddy.

10/11/2005 4:09:31 PM

New York Firefighters Discuss Bombs in WTC Towers

40 second video clip:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/032404firefightersdiscuss.html

In the above video clip (during the second shot of a tower collapsing), take notice of
the two clear explosive charges going off sending debri to the right of the building.

NY City Fireman: "We think there were bombs set in the building"
People Magazine article: http://www.prisonplanet.com/louie_cacchioli.html


[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:20 PM. Reason : 3]

10/11/2005 4:16:24 PM

prisonplanet, terrorize.dk and whatreallyhappened.com are all highly reputable sites with experts on all the aforementioned with impeccable records of public scrutiny.

10/11/2005 4:21:05 PM

Quote :

"prisonplanet, terrorize.dk and whatreallyhappened.com are all highly reputable sites with experts on all the aforementioned with impeccable records of public scrutiny."

Hello, it is video footage. Are you saying the video footage is fake? Did they use advanced computer technology to artificially create fake eyewitness testimony? The people in those clips and their testimony sure look real to me. LOL.


[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:26 PM. Reason : 3]

10/11/2005 4:22:31 PM

yes doctored video footage, and/or errant conlusions of what's going on in them

ie, the one where they claim a missile hit the pentagon.

10/11/2005 4:24:20 PM

Quote :

"yes doctored video footage"

ahahahaha

So, are you saying those videos above of eyewitnesses describing explosions are "DOCTORED"?
What a joke.

[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:25 PM. Reason : 1]

10/11/2005 4:25:22 PM

"eyewitnesses" see whatever they want.

especially after the fact.

[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:29 PM. Reason : btw, i'm not watching any of your prisonplanet bullshit.]

10/11/2005 4:29:08 PM

Quote :

""eyewitnesses" see whatever they want."

LOL.

YEAH, SO WHAT IF ALL THESE EYEWITNESSES, INCLUDING NEWS REPORTERS AND FIREFIGHTERS, SAY THERE WERE EXPLOSIONS GOING OFF JUST BEFORE THE TOWERS COLLAPSED. SO WHAT? THAT MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I MEAN, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT EXPLOSIONS SOUND LIKE ANYWAY. THEY WOULDN'T KNOW ONE IF THEY HEARD IT.

ALL THESE EYEWITNEESES ARE JUST MAKING IT UP. OR THEY'RE ALL DELUSIONAL. THERE WERE NO EXPLOSIONS. THE TOWERS COLLAPSED JUST LIKE THE GOVERNMENT SAID. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

IN FACT, I MOVE TO HAVE EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY BANNED FROM BEING USED IN COURTS OF LAW. EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY MEANS NOTHING.


[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:37 PM. Reason : 2]

10/11/2005 4:35:28 PM

hey Salisburyboy who was behind the explosion of Pompeii?

was the Illiad behind that one also?

10/11/2005 4:36:30 PM

EXPLOSIONS CAN BE CAUSED BY A LOT OF THINGS NUMBNUT. LIKE FUCKING GAS LINES. OR I DON'T KNOW MAYBE HUGE FUCKING TANKS FULL OF JET FUEL.

GET A FUCKING GRIP.

[Edited on October 11, 2005 at 4:37 PM. Reason : *]

10/11/2005 4:37:04 PM

soapbox freaks suck

10/11/2005 4:38:51 PM

Quote :

"btw, i'm not watching any of your prisonplanet bullshit"

AS I SAID BEFORE, IT ALL HAPPENED THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT AND CNN SAYS IT HAPPENED. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. SO I'M NOT GOING TO CONSIDER ANY ALTERNATIVE VIEWS.

SO THERE. UGH. TAKE THAT.

10/11/2005 4:39:02 PM

Quote :

"hey Salisburyboy who was behind the explosion of Pompeii? was the Illiad behind that one also?"

I can play this game. What caused WTC 7 to collapse if it wasn't a controlled demolition? Was it little green men from mars?

10/11/2005 4:42:45 PM

oh i don't know, perhaps temperatures so high that the steel buckled

but then what do respected engineers with years of experience know?

10/11/2005 4:45:13 PM