Quote :

"If the Nazis want to assemble, then fine -- they can throw a dinner party with Swastika-engraved highball glasses and pork finger food. But keep 'em out of my streets"

Smoker4

10/16/2005 11:49:57 AM

gays too

10/16/2005 11:51:54 AM

Faggit.

10/16/2005 12:10:41 PM

And all dem darn democrats too.

10/16/2005 9:47:40 PM

I think it is right for the Constitution to protect things like the Nazi party. Governments shouldn't be able to restrict certain freedoms. And when individuals try to restrict those freedoms, they should be punished.

They should try anyway.

10/16/2005 9:49:41 PM

^

There's a difference between allowing ideological groups like the Nazi party to _exist_, and allowing them to _demonstrate in public_.

Plus I would challenge anyone here to tell me how the first amendment applies to my assertion:

Quote :

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Note that it says "Congress," not "the Toledo City Council."

Arguing that community standards of decent public display fall under the "first amendment" is the ultimate in Roe v. Wade-esque, 14th-amendment judicial activism.

10/16/2005 11:16:59 PM

I didn't realize that Toledo was a sovereign nation operating outside the boundaries of American government

ps

Quote :

"or the right of the people peaceably to assemble"

10/16/2005 11:21:56 PM

^

So you didn't happen to notice that we live in the United STATES, and there are differences between the federal and state governments?

[Edited on October 16, 2005 at 11:25 PM. Reason : foo]

10/16/2005 11:23:55 PM

i didn't realize that smoker4 had joined forces with tgd in posting these hilarious "i've done a 180 and now I'm the complete opposite of what I used to be... psych, I"m just doing this as a social experiment on tww" posts

they're entertaining

[Edited on October 16, 2005 at 11:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/16/2005 11:32:28 PM

^

I'd like to know at which point I've ever professed any belief that the rights in the Bill of Rights are "absolute rights."

10/16/2005 11:44:01 PM

I havent read the original thread but I agree with smoker4 on this, although I think its a little silly to go straight to questioning the incorperation clause of the 14th amendment when there are so many other problems with the idea that people have the right to massively organize on public streets under the 1st amendment.

They in no way own the street, they have no right or privilege to use it for anything other than its intended purpose.

I see no reason why people should have any more of a right to use public proberty than they do to use another private person's property. After all the white house is public property, do I have a right to stand in the oval office and shout my personal beliefs?

10/17/2005 12:46:18 AM

well they got a permit to demonstrate, as far as i know.

10/17/2005 1:20:03 AM

Quote :

"I didn't realize that Toledo was a sovereign nation operating outside the boundaries of American government"

The fact is, the wording still says Congress. That isn't up for debate.

Whether local/state governments should defy the Bill of Rights is debateable, but that's different.

Personally, as much as I may disagree with them, I still feel like they have the right to peaceably assemble.

Quote :

"They in no way own the street, they have no right or privilege to use it for anything other than its intended purpose. "

I can't agree with that, because it can be taken to extremes.

If they have no right to protest on the streets, then I guess no one else should either.

So all protests should take place in private?

10/17/2005 1:21:12 AM

Quote :

"If they have no right to protest on the streets, then I guess no one else should either."

I don't get your point. Are you saying that every ideology is the same as the Nazi ideology?

Or are you saying that, as a matter of public discourse, we are unable to tell Nazi-ism apart from more civil ideologies?

I sometimes think that blanket absolutism towards "rights" represents an unwillingness of people to discuss issues on their merits.

[Edited on October 17, 2005 at 1:23 AM. Reason : foo]

10/17/2005 1:23:02 AM

So basically your for freedom of speech only if you think its acceptable.

10/17/2005 1:44:51 AM

Quote :

"I can't agree with that, because it can be taken to extremes. If they have no right to protest on the streets, then I guess no one else should either. So all protests should take place in private?"

I dont think any city or state or the federal government is obliged to allow people for whatever reason to protest on public property.

Im not saying they should deny all groups the ability to use public property to protest but it should be up to their discretion and clearly in this case they should have used that discretion to not allow the nazis to organize on their streets.

I simply dont see how anyone has a right to protest or assemble on one form of public property but not on other forms.

10/17/2005 1:54:28 AM

Quote :

"There's a difference between allowing ideological groups like the Nazi party to _exist_, and allowing them to _demonstrate in public_."

Yes, there is, but individuals would be right in trying to prevent either.

10/17/2005 3:03:48 AM

I would support the imprisonment of Nazi swine. Afterall, they did lose a war.

10/17/2005 3:13:22 AM

Quote :

"I would support the imprisonment of Nazi swine. Afterall, they did lose a war. "

-moron
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=358034&page=1#7680278

10/17/2005 3:14:20 AM

Quote :

"Are you saying that every ideology is the same as the Nazi ideology?"

To the government it should be.

And even if you don't let them march on the streets they can still march on the sidewalk or whatever.

10/17/2005 12:28:45 PM

Quote :

"There's a difference between allowing ideological groups like the Nazi party to _exist_, and allowing them to _demonstrate in public_. "

In Canada, hate groups aren't allowed to speak freely.

Quote :

"Due to section 1 of the Charter, the so-called limitation clause, Canada's freedom of expression differs from the provision guaranteeing freedom of speech in the United States of America in a fundamental manner. The section 1 of the Charter states: The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. (emphasis added) This section is double edged. First it implies that a limitation on freedom of speech prescribed in law can be permitted if it can be justified as being a reasonable limit in a free and democratic society. Conversely, it implies that a restriction can be invalidated if it cannot be shown to be a reasonable limit in a free and democratic society. The former case has been used to uphold limits on legislation which are used to prevent hate speech and obscenity."

No hate for you!

10/17/2005 12:32:00 PM

Quote :

"They in no way own the street, they have no right or privilege to use it for anything other than its intended purpose. "

yes.

Quote :

"well they got a permit to demonstrate, as far as i know."

no. permit was originally granted, then denied.

they assembled in a city park and were marching down a sidewalk. all 12 of them. last i heard, you don't need a permit to walk down a sidewalk. and with some of the nutcases running around here, you don't need one to shout vulgar shit either.

10/17/2005 12:38:04 PM

Quote :

"In Canada, hate groups aren't allowed to speak freely. "

Yeah, and that's one of the many reasons why USA > Canada.

10/17/2005 1:21:05 PM

Blacks not running around amok rampaging and pillaging is one of the many reasons Canada >>>>> USA.

10/17/2005 4:48:41 PM

HATE! HATE! HATE!

I THINK THEM DURN DEMOCRATS ARE A HATE GROUP TOO. THEY HATE FREEDOM.

10/17/2005 6:34:55 PM

Pish, this America. We like Nazis and gangsters.

Sometimes freedom involves being a major asshole.

10/17/2005 6:43:11 PM

nazis are people too.

10/17/2005 6:58:48 PM

Look how nice they are to nuns!


And look how they help out with the peoples laundry?

10/17/2005 11:35:22 PM