Quote :

"im also for cutting the drug war a bit. i agree with lessened penalties for users (dealers can still get raped in prison for all i care)"

cyrion, in the drug legalization thread
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=356268&page=3

ps, cyrion, i'm not trying to single you out. You just happened to say something related to an issue I've been thinking about recently. Many people have become completely used to the fact that rapings and other torture go on in our prisons every day. It's as though we think anyone in prison is a deadbeat, useless, inhuman good-for-nothing with no human rights. He could have done anything from stealing a loaf of bread to selling some pot to imbezzling money, but his punishment might be a new boyfriend named bubba, and we accept it.

It's no wonder abu ghraib happened, charles grainer, the "ring leader" of the torture scandal there, was a u.s. prison worker.

10/18/2005 12:05:15 PM

actuall your not alone... ive thought the same thing, but i always come to the conclusion that its not so much allowed rather its hard to avoid. unless you jack up funding probably a shit load to effectively stop it, the only other way is not to allow social interaction. now i realize that the people in max prisons probably dont have this problem, my understanding is that they are locked down something like 23 out of 24 hours in a day. but the min security ones, in my opinion, have to do the same to curtail such activities.

and locking them up 23 out of 24 hours a day would be worse i think overall then what is goin on. if not worse than equal at the least.

10/18/2005 12:12:42 PM

alot of people feel that the things that go on in today's prision, especially prison rape, are a form of cruel and unusual punishment

10/18/2005 12:20:58 PM

yea but am i wrong when i say that it may be unavoidable, assuming we want to allow social interaction?

[Edited on October 18, 2005 at 12:24 PM. Reason : I agree many people feel the same, or at least feel it to be unnecessary]

[Edited on October 18, 2005 at 12:24 PM. Reason : ...]

10/18/2005 12:23:37 PM

as a prisoner i would opt for the isolation, even for 20 years, rather than get raped

can you demand isolation?

10/18/2005 12:50:17 PM

Kill a guard and find out.

10/18/2005 1:01:49 PM

The only way to really prevent these things from happening is to resort to SuperMax style prisons and do things that would really have the ACLU up in arms.

10/18/2005 1:45:37 PM

Quote :

"but the min security ones, in my opinion, have to do the same to curtail such activities. "

They put rapists in minimum security prisons?

10/18/2005 2:10:24 PM

I think that's absolutely untrue. One thing to do that would make things better in prison is not putting so many people in prison.

The United States has the highest reported incarceration rate in the world - though other nations (such as North Korea), which do not release incarceration statistics, may exceed it.
http://www.answers.com/topic/prisons-in-the-united-states

alot of these people are first time, nonviolent offenders, who would likely be better served with rehabilitation programs and the like

10/18/2005 2:13:51 PM

Don't sugar coat the facts. Many, if not most, of the people incarcerated should be in prison, completely isolated from society. Nobody is going to prison for "stealing a loaf of bread."

10/18/2005 2:31:37 PM

Are other countries more lenient towards law-breakers, or do they just have less crime?

[Edited on October 18, 2005 at 2:36 PM. Reason : is what i want to ask]

10/18/2005 2:35:06 PM

^ Or less strict justice systems, or laws that do not assign a prison sentence where we would...

There are a lot more factors than "Americans are more violent," even though you soapbox folks will criticize anything about the U.S. that you can get your hands on.

[Edited on October 18, 2005 at 2:41 PM. Reason : oh well shit.]

10/18/2005 2:40:11 PM

^^ Just shorter prison sentences in most cases.

In a few other cases such as China, etc. it is the overwealming use of alternative punishments which keep the prison population low. For example, chopping someones hand off or executing them are two examples of punishments which require no prison time whatsoever.

[Edited on October 18, 2005 at 2:46 PM. Reason : ^]

10/18/2005 2:46:09 PM

Quote :

"Don't sugar coat the facts. Many, if not most, of the people incarcerated should be in prison, completely isolated from society. Nobody is going to prison for "stealing a loaf of bread.""

I see, and you're basing that off of completely objective facts, of course?

Welcome to the soapbox, where logical fallacies get pointed out.

10/18/2005 2:55:47 PM

Actually DG there was a report on NPR about this recently.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4777748

10/18/2005 3:02:23 PM

Quote :

"Many, if not most, of the people incarcerated should be in prison, completely isolated from society."

This is not a factual statement. It's my opinion. CNN doesn't generally do stories on my opinion.

If you get jail time for selling drugs, you don't get an ounce of compassion from me. Neither do you for suffering the additional consequences associated with going to jail.

In other words: You dug your own hole.

10/18/2005 3:35:09 PM

i understand what you mean DG. i was just saying that to show that i dont feel sorry for people who choose to make a (very decent in some cases) living off of junkies and other people who may not be able to help themselves (obviously that was the topic of discussion).

its an unfortunate result of our prison system, but i agree that without a ton of funding we simply wont be able to avoid a lot of the things that go on. do i feel 100% compasion for all these people though? not really, many probably do deserve to be in there and/or worse treatment. i personally dont think shorter prison sentences are the answer either though.

10/18/2005 4:41:36 PM

Quote :

"dealers can still get raped in prison"

Because ANYONE who sells an "illegal substance" is just as bad as a rapist.

10/18/2005 4:54:38 PM

^ how did you magically come up with ANYONE in this thread saying that?

10/18/2005 6:04:02 PM

"Prison aint no joke. I got my manhood taken from me. Prison aint no joke man."

~ convicted felon at my highschool's "career day."

10/18/2005 11:09:33 PM

I do think that prison rape happens less than people really think it does. I don't think everyone that goes into prison gets raped and that seems to be the idea people have. I don't think it's something that should happen to most of the prisoners, now I will say child molesters and people like that deserve whatever prison can dish out, but I don't really know what could be done to stop it other than throwing money that isn't there at it.

10/19/2005 1:31:13 AM

how much is soap on a rope honestly?

10/19/2005 1:59:30 AM

"and they put soap on it and they expect me to thank them for it. Like they're doing me a favor!"

10/19/2005 7:00:53 AM

Regarding life sentences, let em free after 50 years. All these old ass men with cancer, AIDS, bad teeth, heart disease, etc... just rotting away...

10/19/2005 11:31:11 AM

aside from being morally wrong, i wouldnt commit a crime that would put me in prison mainly for the fact that i would have that happen to me if i ended up there

so it actually acts as a deterrent

10/19/2005 1:33:40 PM