Do you think we are reaching a point, or will reach it very soon, where a college education is essentially worthless. By worthless I mean expected, like a High School diploma. Where so many people entering the job market, even for jobs that may not be professional, have a college education. And therefore if you dont have a degree you are screwed becasue so many other people do...or if you do have a degree it isnt really a big deal. degree inflation lets call it. And if this is or becomes the case then a masters degree will become basically what a college degree once was. before we know it, people will be spending up to 26 to 30 years in school getting graduate degrees before they enter the work force.

10/27/2005 9:27:35 PM

"Reaching"? More like already there.

10/27/2005 9:29:23 PM

It's okay, there will always be a need for somebody to make the french fries at McDonalds.

jk, obviously

10/27/2005 9:29:51 PM

thats what im saying, but im talking about even jobs that are not professional. even vocational jobs.

10/27/2005 9:31:17 PM

no. according to the census bureau (for what that's worth), there were only 27% of people over age 25 with a bachelor's degree (as of 2004).

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GRTTable?_bm=y&-_box_head_nbr=R1402&-ds_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_&-format=US-30&-CONTEXT=grt

and since baby boomers are starting to retire, a large chunk of the highly trained workforce (specifically engineers and the like) will need to be replaced. and a bachelor's degree is quite enough to do that for the foreseeable future, i think.

add:
but i do forsee that many more people who probably would be better off learning to be plumbers, etc, are going to get degrees and expect more.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 9:35 PM. Reason : ]

10/27/2005 9:33:46 PM

Probably will end up with more discriminating private schools in the future, less discriminating public schools, and it'll end up that whether you went to a private/public university means the difference between having gotten an average education and having gotten an education that means something to an employer.

10/27/2005 9:37:08 PM

wow only 27% that is lower than i thought. i think eventually it will reach that point. and when i say that i mean for jobs that today might not require a degree but eventually even the applicants who apply have them.

10/27/2005 9:38:02 PM

this is why i'm applying to several PhD programs right now

10/27/2005 9:39:44 PM

i want a masters eventaully, but i just got out and im enjoying it.

10/27/2005 9:42:18 PM

<--- hopes to return to grad school next fall

10/27/2005 10:30:32 PM

There will always be trades that don't require a college degree and pay well, electrician, Plubmer, AC Work, General Handyman Carpentry, Painting. These are all trades you can work today and make a comfertable living. I personally think if anything will happen, the High School years will turn more like college years, in that they will become more specialized. no more of this "first year college" stuff, Students will already be on a career path by the time they reach college.

Plus there is also a point where the time and money invested in an education don't account for the extra money. This is just a my two cents, and personal thoughts.

10/27/2005 11:50:46 PM

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:51 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2005 11:51:21 PM

Yes, of course.

10/28/2005 12:23:33 AM

we're well on our way. A degree is not what it used to be. More and more colleges pop up all the time making it easier to get into school. Because the selection process is less rigorous we end up with more graduates who haven't preformed at the same level as previous graduates. Then you factor in that if someones parents have some degree of higher education it's that much more likely they will. So you get more and more people attending college every year, whose kids will in turn attend college most likely. It used to be that a degree itself was enough to get you a job. Enough people have degrees now that a degree itself isn't enough and that will continue to become more and more true.

The baby boomers thing. This has been said numerous times, but you have to realize that with medicine, technology, and a more health conscience society people are living longer. So they want/can work longer and in most cases have to work longer to make ends meet. People who were supposed to start retiring a few years ago have not. I'll see if I can find sources for this on the internet, but I've seen it from several sources. And it just makes sense.

As far as trades go, it's absolutely true you can make good money being an electrician, plumber or etc., but young people don't want those jobs because of work conditions and reputation. I think we'll see more people with degrees "settling" for those jobs even though they'll be making decent money eventually. (Depending on where they live.)

As of right now I think kids just go to college because it's the next thing to do after highschool and they believe it will help them get a job. Almost all of my friends I came into State with have changed their major atleast once. Very few 18 year olds really know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Some think they do, but most do not. So you get people who aren't really here to learn, they are here because this is where they think they should be. The "C's get degrees" philosphy comes into play more and more because they don't really care if they learn anything or retain the info. as long as they have a degree.

Personally I think to help with the problem of degrees losing value maybe we should force kids to take some time off between highschool and college. Then maybe make and enforce some strict minimum gpa requirements especially with in their specific concentration. I don't want to hire people that have less than a B avg. in their main area of study. Basically weed out the people that don't really want to be there to learn.

I wouldn't want the government coming in and making schools do that, but I think more schools should hold their students to higher standards.

[Edited on October 28, 2005 at 9:22 AM. Reason : ,]

also you'll get more people not finding good/perm. jobs until they're older. I believe this is already true in some european countries. Time magazine had an article (I think last spring) about how kids in the US are going to live with their parents after graduation. That this is becoming more of a trend (due to not being able to find work) and that the age to which they stay is getting longer.

[Edited on October 28, 2005 at 9:28 AM. Reason : .]

10/28/2005 9:18:56 AM

i think being a service industry nations leads to a lot of jobs that really dont require that education either. i mean how many ppl graduating with computer science have to start off in tech support or web design/maintenance crap?

Quote :

" no more of this "first year college" stuff, Students will already be on a career path by the time they reach college."

i agree with duro in...

Quote :

"As of right now I think kids just go to college because it's the next thing to do after highschool and they believe it will help them get a job. Almost all of my friends I came into State with have changed their major atleast once. Very few 18 year olds really know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Some think they do, but most do not."

so if that happens, drop out rates or average time to obtain a degree will probably just rise. i think a factor that you didnt mention is parental/societal pressures. you "have" to go to college nowadays (because as we've said, college is the new high school). they are pushed into it but have no clue what to do.

i wonder, of those 27% how many are degrees like psychology, communications, or philosophy with no further education received. im not saying they are worthless, but the job market compared to the quantity of jobs requiring said degrees is pretty shitty and they are kinda the "go to" degrees for a lot of people b/c they are interesting and not super heavy on math.

10/28/2005 9:44:18 AM

damn you, page stretching URLs

this thread is a pain in the ass to read

10/28/2005 10:04:22 AM

Quote :

"there were only 27% of people over age 25 with a bachelor's degree (as of 2004)."

something you have to think about with that is the fact that there are many jobs today that you have to have a degree to get. where as 15 years ago you would not have had to have a degree. My dad never went to college, has been doing the same thing for about 25years now, but everyone they've hired in the past 10years have all had college degrees. The company he worked for up until this year was going down the tubes, laying people off for the past 2 years. He was worried that he would be screwed because he doesn't have a degree. So he got out and went to another company doing the same thing before they got around to laying him off. It was only his experience and references that got him the job, if he were 25 with no degree he wouldn't have gotten the position.

So though only 27% have college degrees, many of those people that do not have degrees would probably need them if they were just starting out today.

10/28/2005 10:27:34 AM

Quote :

"damn you, page stretching URLs"

Something is up with your browser, because you are the only person who complains about this on a regular basis. I have no trouble, the link just wraps around to a second line.



As for the topic - I think that while you are in college you are wearing blinders to the rest of the country and world. People are surprised that only 27% of Americans over 25 have a college degree. Honestly I'm surprised it's that high. A lot of our country still lives in poverty. We don't see it so much around this area because the Triangle has become one of the most prosperous places to live in the nation. Think back to how many poor people you saw on TV during Katrina and how many of them have a college education.

My point is, there's still a long way to go before a college degree becomes a high school diploma.

10/28/2005 11:09:04 AM

I am willing to bet that just as you only needed a few years of school a few generations ago, then only needed high school, then only needed a bachelors, that soon you'll need a masters, etc etc. I don't know what can really keep that from happening.

10/28/2005 11:11:43 AM

^^ i've had it happen to me, but not always. nto sure why

10/28/2005 11:12:50 AM

Quote :

"I am willing to bet that just as you only needed a few years of school a few generations ago, then only needed high school, then only needed a bachelors, that soon you'll need a masters, etc etc. I don't know what can really keep that from happening."

Laziness and/or frustration as well as lack of ROI. It may get to that point but then I think things might turn arround or the job market will change entirely. College while being more prevalent is also getting more expensive. Sure it's easier to afford it, but I don't think society is going to stand too long for having to go 6+ years into debt just to get started in the job market.

10/28/2005 11:20:22 AM

College degrees will always be great for the people that are pursing a certain career. Almost all degrees have will benefit you if you plan to work in that field. The biggest problem IMO comes from people with no career goals that choose to be a COM or English major for lack of anything better to do. If you want to pursue a career that requires a degree in English then go for it. If not, why would you choose to be an English major?

10/28/2005 11:37:50 AM

Getting a PhD, and do this type of mental gymnastics daily.

I'd love to see more emphasis put on community college programs for many kids getting out of school. I went into college directly from high school and that was a big mistake I believe. Sure there was all the social stuff that I wouldn't trade for anything, but I do have to consider my first two years somewhat of a waste. YMMV.

From a pure cost/benefit analysis I'm an idiot to have gone this far. I like what I'm doing and will probably stay in academics for a long time, but can easily see doing something completely out of my field in 5 years as well. Again, YMMV.

Do you need to go to college? Yes, if your want to work for someone else, but in many (most) cases it's just as a gatekeeper mechanism to see if you can complete a long term goal. The uber-specialization of many programs has gotten way beyond what a liberal arts degree was 50 years ago. Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just go to a model whereby we have more technical schools and programs in addition to the traditional 4 year degrees.

10/28/2005 11:40:01 AM

This thread started with the worst reasoning ever and ended with posts so long i wont even bother to read them.

10/28/2005 11:42:44 AM

I met a 20 year old exterminator who made 75k a year. Made almost twice what I did, and I have a Masters.

10/28/2005 11:52:33 AM

I don't know about this degree inflation. I think that a lot of the trade jobs will probably prefer individuals who have come out of vocational and technical schools versus holding a four year degree.

I don't see the degree inflation as being so severe though. While a lot of jobs will probably require masters degrees to advance beyond a certain level, I think the bulk of these degrees will be earned part time as professional degrees and not as a straight through college type of deal, paid for by employers. Most larger companies are actually pretty good about funding further education for their technical and management-tracked employees.

10/28/2005 12:05:31 PM

i think its just certain fields that this occurs in. the "goto" degrees i described earlier are 1 section and the technical but very booming/broad categories like computer science are another.

10/28/2005 12:15:12 PM

^^, it may not be so bad now, but it will only get worse. In the sense that the degree itself will not be enough. Grades will be more of a factor and experience.

For the trade jobs i just don't think that's true. If I need to hire an electrician, am i gonna hire the electrician with no degree or the electrician with a degree. If both are equally qualified electricians then I'm taking the guy with the degree. It will make the company look better. My dad installs phone systems, nobody when he started at his position had a degree. All the new guys do. Plumbers don't need a degree, the reason a plumber will have a degree is because graduates are gonna go "damn i can't find a decent job with my degree and I NEED money. If i learn plumbing, hvac, etc. I can make good money". because so many people have degrees, it's more likely that there will be better canidates than you. They will choose not to use their degree. I work side by side with a few guys that are in their 30's only my boss works in a field related to his degree. The others are doing something completely different.

10/28/2005 1:06:22 PM

Check out cnn.com America's negative numbers video clip.

10/29/2005 6:59:24 AM

^ you just putting that out there for general interest or are you trying to make some kind of point?

here's a link to the video for anyone else interested
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/free;_ylt=Anh01g06RtQIaGiXZRG9.G2z174F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5dXJmZWdsBHNlYwN2aWRlbw--?ch=49799&cl=146231','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no'
sorry it's stretching the page.

This thread is talking about today's america vs. america.. say 30 years ago. Not %of minorities or %of whites, nor is it discussing US vs. other countries. That statistic just shows that it's an issue all over the world, not just in the US. The other education related statistics just show that we suck compared to other countries. And if most of that clip was really news to anyone they are just uninformed individuals. The only thing I didn't really expect was the 50% of blacks and hispanics not finishing highschool. But that statistic is a little misleading (statistics can be easily manipulated). I would put a good sum of money down saying that a majority of that 50% is coming from blacks and hispanics living in poverty. And yes i know many more blacks and hispanics live in poverty than whites, and in some istances that's a problem and in others it isn't, but it's irrelavent. The point is that blacks and hispanics that are econimically equal to the avg. white are probably only a little less likely to finish highschool than whites if at all.

When you observe broad ass statements, especially statistics, you gotta step back and ask yourself what's really influencing that statistic. Consider all the factors involved, not just one as simple as skin color.


If you were just putting it out there for interest, I thought it was somewhat interesting. Like I said there was quite a bit of stuff i had already known. However, it still sucked as journalism. All it did was point out a bunch of problems, it didn't provide the public with any insight as to what was causing these problems nor possible solutions. So now dumbasses will just go around regurgitating statistics without any real information regarding the issues.

[Edited on October 29, 2005 at 1:31 PM. Reason : link]

10/29/2005 1:29:26 PM

just general info. and yes I run into people all of the time quoting some statistic when they can't even tell me where it came from. Satistics can be manipulated, skewed, biased or simple made up and dished out to the public to see what happens.

10/29/2005 1:35:40 PM

Quote :

"And if this is or becomes the case then a masters degree will become basically what a college degree once was."

Although the value of a degree may be inflating, employers actually _do_ hire people to do real work. Really.

Strictly speaking, right now, I don't think a bachelor's degree is required for much entry-level work. Maybe engineering, but even then there is a large amount of "on the job" training -- vertical skillsets, tools, business knowledge, etc.

Mostly employers hire bachelor's-level candidates because they can. They're a dime a dozen, so to speak, because there are so many of them -- why would you hire someone with no higher education over a four-year degree in this market?

But -- that doesn't mean they wholly prefer more education to less. The difference between a bachelor's and a high-school degree is very steep. But a master's degree is an incremental step, and it generally reflects a more "academic" or "specialized" path. Especially consider that two more years spent working on a master's means two more years not spent learning vertical job market skills, which are REALLY valuable to employers.

So, I think that, in general, the shift you're talking about would take place only if employers actually determined -- empirically -- that people with master's degrees are in fact better entry-level employees than people with bachelor's degrees. And I don't think that's a foregone conclusion.

10/29/2005 1:47:14 PM

^ he's right, unless enough people get masters degrees that those people become "a dime a dozen" then it will be "why hire someone with a bach. when i can get someone with a masters willing to work for the same price". As for right now though the good news is that even though it may be easier to get into college and graduate than it once was, it's still difficult to get into grad. school.

10/29/2005 3:27:55 PM

well, i'm just glad I have a job after I graduate. I feel bad for the rest of you guys that don't have one lined up.

10/29/2005 3:53:56 PM