http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/intelligence-on-vietnam-war-faked/2005/11/01/1130823207423.html

Quote :

"Intelligence on Vietnam War 'faked' November 2, 2005 One of America's top spy agencies faked key intelligence used to justify its intervention in the Vietnam War, it has been revealed. But the revelation was kept secret by the National Security Agency, partly because of fears that it would boost criticism of the intelligence services over the war in Iraq. According to material uncovered by the NSA's own historian, Robert Hanyok, middle-ranking officers altered material relating to the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Two US destroyers, Maddox and Turner Joy, were attacked by North Vietnamese craft in the gulf on August 2, 1964. Two days later, amid bad weather and considerable confusion in the US chain of command, Maddox reported that it had been fired on a second time. Although its commander soon cast doubt on the reports, signals intelligence reported that the North Vietnamese admitted "we sacrificed two ships". In revenge president Lyndon Johnson ordered air raids against North Vietnamese naval facilities and Congress authorised "all necessary steps including the use of armed force" to defend South Vietnam. But Mr Hanyok found that timings on key intelligence intercepts had been changed and the "two ships" probably referred to the loss of two sailors in the first attack. He blamed middle-ranking staff who realised the NSA's mistakes almost immediately but covered them up, not for political reasons but to hide the original mistakes. At the time, senior administration officials cited the faked paperwork in testimony before Congress. It has even been suggested that President Johnson was so keen to deploy troops that he fabricated the whole episode."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/washington-hid-damaging-vietnam-finding/2005/10/31/1130720481924.html

Quote :

"Washington hid damaging Vietnam finding Date: November 1 2005 By Scott Shane in Washington The US National Security Agency has kept secret a 2001 finding by its own historian that its officers deliberately distorted critical intelligence during the Tonkin Gulf episode that helped precipitate the Vietnam War. The historian's conclusion was the first serious accusation that the agency's intercepts were falsified to support the belief North Vietnamese ships attacked US destroyers on August 4, 1964, two days after a previous clash. Most historians have concluded in recent years there was no second attack, but they have assumed the agency's intercepts were unintentionally misread, not purposely altered. The research by Robert Hanyok, the agency's historian, was detailed four years ago in an in-house article that remains secret, in part because agency officials feared its release might prompt uncomfortable comparisons with the flawed intelligence used to justify the war in Iraq, according to an intelligence official."

FLASHBACKS:

The Times (U.K.) article: LBJ Admitted In Secret Tape That Gulf of Tonkin Incident Never Happened
http://web.archive.org/web/20011113014359/http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/news/articles/warerror.htm

History.net article: "New Light on Gulf of Tonkin"
http://web.archive.org/web/19971212065520/http://www.thehistorynet.com/Vietnam/articles/1997/08972_text.htm

30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2261

11/2/2005 10:02:32 AM

Lies by the government to start a war? That's unheard of! It could NEVER happen!

11/2/2005 10:11:24 AM

why are you replying to your own thread

11/2/2005 10:18:25 AM

that's what i was wondering

unless he fubared himself thinkin he was on his alias name..lol.

[Edited on November 2, 2005 at 10:19 AM. Reason : .]

11/2/2005 10:19:02 AM

hello and welcome to 30 years ago, this really isnt new or shocking

11/2/2005 12:04:35 PM

hmm I actually get the point of this thread and I think its the first reasonable and coherent thread he has made

11/2/2005 12:49:03 PM

[old]

11/2/2005 12:54:18 PM

Quote :

"hello and welcome to 30 years ago, this really isnt new or shocking"

Well, to be fair, there is the newly released evidence about how the NSA deliberately falsified intelligence to get us into the war. And, this is a MAJOR revelation. This is a big smoking gun. It further solidifies the fact that the U.S. Government deliberately lied to get us into the Vietnam War.

11/2/2005 12:54:49 PM

Quote :

"Mr. Joshua: "[old]"

Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that it is common knowledge among the American public that the U.S. deliberately lied to get us into the Vietnam War? I don't think that is the case. Most people are still in the dark about this.

Did you alreadly believe the U.S. government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Mr. Joshua? Surely not. I thought you trusted the government on that.

11/2/2005 12:58:29 PM

Sadly, I'm willing to bet that a good number of americans know nothing about the Gulf of Tonkin. However, its fairly common knowledge that the whole incident is questionable. Its a rather controversial topic among experts.

Quote :

"Surely not. I thought you trusted the government on that."

OMF!!! MISREPRESENTATION!!!

11/2/2005 1:08:21 PM

It's fairly well-accepted that the Maddox wasn't actually attacked.

But I think this is the first time I've seen a suggestion that the government deliberately fabricated the incident.

11/2/2005 1:26:50 PM

would u expect anythin less from salisburybot?

11/2/2005 1:28:36 PM

[older than old]

11/2/2005 2:15:23 PM

This looks like news to me...

Quote :

""Intelligence on Vietnam War 'faked' November 2, 2005 One of America's top spy agencies faked key intelligence used to justify its intervention in the Vietnam War, it has been revealed."

[Edited on November 2, 2005 at 2:36 PM. Reason : 1]

11/2/2005 2:35:09 PM

Quote :

"Gulf of Tonkin Lie Launched Vietnam War"

I've never heard anything to the contrary. However, conventional wisdom and official record are two distinctly different things. I hadn't heard that the public record supports the conclusion, though.

11/2/2005 3:02:10 PM

Spanish-American War is really the war for salisburyboy.

11/2/2005 3:14:52 PM

has anyone made the - damn salisburyboy is going to die alone and nobody is really sorry - thread yet?

11/2/2005 3:31:42 PM

Quote :

"N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001 In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. "

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

11/2/2005 3:39:11 PM

[old]

11/2/2005 3:39:53 PM

REMEMBER THE MAINE!

11/2/2005 3:40:32 PM

Quote :

"Project MKULTRA From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (Redirected from MKULTRA) Jump to: navigation, search Project MKULTRA (also known as MK-ULTRA) was the code name for a CIA mind-control research program lasting from the 1950s[1] through the late 1960s[2], and is considered by some to be an acronym of "Manufacturing Killers Utilizing Lethal Tradecraft Requiring Assassinations[3] . It was first brought to wide public attention by the U.S. Congress (in the form of the Church Committee) and a presidential commission (known as the Rockefeller Commission) (see Revelation below) and also to the U.S. Senate. The Church committee wrote: "The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over 30 universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.' At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers." Senator Ted Kennedy U.S. SENATE, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 3, 1977 SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE, AND SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH OF THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES "

11/2/2005 3:42:28 PM

Quote :

"AUGUST 3, 1977"

[old]

Got any Titanic jokes while you're hitting these things at the height of their popularity?

11/2/2005 3:45:18 PM

his next thread will be playing one more song as the ship sinks...

11/2/2005 4:12:21 PM

Quote :

"Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that it is common knowledge among the American public that the U.S. deliberately lied to get us into the Vietnam War? "

Anyone who knows anything about this period of history knows that the US fabricated and lied more than once to get involved with Vietnam. It's fairly well known that we backed and helped orchestrate more than one coup and the eventual the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem. The Gulf of Tonkin was just an easy out for the public to get behind the war, much like how the public came to support WWII after Pearl Harbor.

11/2/2005 4:20:22 PM

11/2/2005 4:25:28 PM

[old]y Mc[old][old]

11/2/2005 6:24:04 PM

Quote :

"REMEMBER THE MAINE!"

Damnit damnit DAMNIT!

Beat me to it.

11/2/2005 7:02:31 PM

"Operation Himmler"

11/2/2005 7:46:35 PM