If you are in Paul William's Acc 310 class this semester, read this! From what I have heard... Two of the Chinese girls in the 8:30 TH class got Paul William's to let them take their tests in his office instead of our regular testing period. From what I understand, they were the only 2 in the room and they were given extra time to complete the test. Not only is it not fair to give them extra time, since their national origin is not a University documented disability, but it also raises questions about whether or not the students were monitored while taking the test. Paul Williams was giving tests from 8:30-9:45 and from 10:15-11:30... So I do not think he was monitoring them... Anyway, one of the Chinese girls went to Paul Williams and cried to him about how her first test grade was so bad. I believe she scored in the 60's on the first test. Ironically, she scored a 91 on the 2nd test when she was allowed to take the test outside of the classroom and given extra time. Since Paul Williams is going to count the 1st test as an "outlier", this means her test average will be around an A, while others' grades will be much lower. Does this bother anyone besides me? Also, this Chinese girl does excellent in her other classes without receiving extra time... Why does her language barrier only affect Intermediate Financial Accounting?

[Edited on November 11, 2005 at 2:58 PM. Reason : spelling error]

11/11/2005 2:57:57 PM

accountant,

I am currently in ACC 310 with Prof. Williams as well.

I read what you have written and provided the allegations you have mentioned are true, then yes it is an unfair scenario.

However, how did you find this information out? If you were to address your contention with the professor, you'd need some solid evidence saying that the students in question were: a) given additional time on the test and b) were given preference based on their ethnic background. This is very difficult to establish and prove. Furthermore, you are assuming that no one was present to proctor the exam for these students, but you don't seem to definitely know one way or another.

What would you regard as a fair outcome to this? Professor Williams seems very generous in regards to curving test grades. What's to say he won't evaluate students using the same criteria across the board?

chrysostomos

[Edited on November 11, 2005 at 4:01 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2005 4:00:44 PM

The foreign girl told me herself that she thought she should receive preferential treatment for her language difference.

One of the foreign girls told me most of the information. I told her that I thought it was unfair that she was allowed to take the test in a less stressful environment (in a small office rather than large classroom of peers and given more time). She admitted to receiving more time, but she said that she deserves more time because she doesn't understand English very well. Without University documentation, I do not think she should receive extra time. Especially since she does not require extra time to take tests in her other classes.

I do not know what a proper outcome would be. I do know that if grades are assigned by saying top 15% receive A's, next 30% receive B's... that this will affect us all. Also, if grades are curved at the end of the semester, this could affect the curve as well. I agree that Dr. Williams is a very generous/kind person, but I think he was affected by this girl's emotions. The problem is that the world is not going to treat her differently when she cries.

I've just received confirmation that both of the girls received non-passing grades on the first test, but both received high 80's or low 90's on the 2nd test!

At the end of my conversation with this girl, she finally admitted that it was unfair for her to receive the benefits that she did. Finally, she said "You aren't going to tell the rest of the class about this are you?" Sounds like she wants to hide it to me...

Please continue to let me know your thoughts on the situation...

11/11/2005 7:35:23 PM

how about you stop bitching about other people's ways to beat the system and start finding ways to beat it yourself

11/12/2005 12:07:47 AM

hey svstanko, why dont you realize that shit like this cheapens all our degrees at this institution

accountant. pm wolfeee and she will point you in the right direction about how to deal with this

11/12/2005 12:34:29 AM

i was an international student at state, but i never got a special treatment about the language barrier. of course it was hard for me to rememorize some things in english that i learned in japanese. i would have got better grades if i had taken classes in japan. but i am lazy at studying no matter where i am anyway.

yeah, i don't think it is fair that some international students get a special treatment like that.

11/12/2005 1:38:45 AM

Let me say that I know Paul Williams very well. He is a wonderful professor with a great heart and honest intentions. He is one who believes in international experiences/study abroad for students and is sensitive to the needs of all students. I have worked at institutions where 40% of the students were international and sometimes there were accomodations (such as use of a dictionary) to help those students have a level playing field to those with English as a first language.

I think there are a few things here to consider:
1) You say you have heard about this situation through others. Perhaps it would be good to have a conversation with Dr. Williams and ask him about the situation. There might be facts you don't have. There is a way to have such a conversation in a polite and mature matter.

2) While it also appears you have received more information from the students, I think you should be very careful how you handle this. Asian cultures do not communicate in as direct a way as we do and they are very concerned with saving face- both for themselves and most importantly, others. They might be agreeing with you under pressure from your direct inquiry and as a courtesy to keep you from loosing face. In some Asian cultures, students do not raise hands and ask questions in class because it would be viewed as a challenge to the professor's knowledge and authority. It would be viewed as an insult, not an inquiry. The students may be concerned based on what your perspective could do to cause insult to Dr. Williams and they would not want to be the cause of that. If you proceed in an abrupt way, you may cause more harm than good in terms of getting a resolution to the matter.

I will be glad to talk to you about a way you might sensitively, professionally and politely talk to Dr. Williams about this.

There is also a great workshop you could attend on Monday. (anyone else is welcome too- just RSVP to Elizabeth Rose) [link] http://www.ncsu.edu/oisss/UpcomingEvents/InternationalWeek.htm [/link] The first event on Monday from 8-10:30. I'll be there. Might be a good place to learn about international students and to also share what you have recently observed and discuss it.

11/12/2005 7:24:24 AM

that was intended to be a joke...sorry

11/12/2005 10:57:38 AM

well, i thought it was funny

11/12/2005 7:28:47 PM

I had a situation in Finance (BUS 320, small class) where a kid was absent only on test days. On the third test, I asked the kid next to me, "is he auditing the class?" He said "Oh you don't know?" Long story short, the kid was foreign and got to take the tests in the teachers office during office hours. I'm guessing he played the language barrier as well, but I have no knowledge as to the real reason, but I am 99.9% sure (as i did not witness him in her office with my own eyes) he was able to take the tests in her office untimed.

You know, in the job world, many employers give their employees extra time for the same ask as another employee, yea right!

11/13/2005 6:18:35 PM

There isn't really anything that can be done about it though...

11/15/2005 2:04:18 PM

^i´m in spain right now (all of my classes are in spanish) and it can be hard as shit sometimes doing simple assignments. language barrier does have a big affect, think about what it would be like if you were doing all of your work in another country.

11/15/2005 2:28:19 PM

^thank you for providing a different perspective.

11/15/2005 6:43:09 PM

all you gotta do to get extra time is tell either the teacher or a health person at state that you cant focus with that many people in a class during a test(or something to that extent)

11/15/2005 7:11:23 PM

Concerning the language barrier:

She is not receiving extra time in her other classes (financial management and business statistics...) and she is scoring very high in those classes. Language barrier is not the problem. The reason she needs extra time in the accounting class is that she does not understand accounting. Her intro level accounting instructors helped her through the class because of her "language barrier", but they were actually hurting her because she did not understand the material like her grades indicated.

If we help people get through school because of a "language barrier," what will they do when they get out into the real world? Companies do not want employees who cannot communicate effectively with co-workers. They also do not want employees who cannot work efficiently because they do not understand the language.

11/16/2005 11:38:39 AM

Could it also possibly be that, regardless of the change in testing environment and time, they realized that they did poorly on their first test, and studied a whole lot harder for the next one in order to do better? Cuz I know no one's ever done that before.

11/16/2005 3:43:46 PM

Bitch bitch bitch

Being ESL does give you the right to extra time. It's impressive that they forgo the right with other classes, but that doesn't mean they can't use it in your class.

And affording extra time to ESL and EC students does not cheapen this univeristy. In fact the opposite is true.

11/16/2005 5:18:35 PM

Her English as 2nd language is not documented by the university and therefore is not a right to her. The fact that she does not ask for extra time in other classes is an indication that she in fact does understand English fine in those classes. The reason she asks for more time in the accounting class is that everyone struggles with time in ACC 310. She especially struggles since she doesn't understand the fundamentals...

I support having a diverse university. However, in this situation, the university is being cheapened. I've spoken with this girl and she is abusing the system. She uses her ethnicity and her gender to receive unfair advantages.

11/17/2005 9:59:47 AM

Quote :

"Her English as 2nd language is not documented by the university"

How the hell do you know? These things are confidential.

And how do you know what she does in other classes? Are you stalking her or something?

Did you ever think that maybe it's because this class is especially hard that the language barrier is more of an issue?


You don't even know them, yet you presume to know the ins and outs of their academic career.

11/17/2005 5:02:05 PM

Boonedocks,

Why are you so ignorant? I know these things because I know this girl! She has told me that it is not documented by the University! She has told me her grades in other classes! She has told me how she has scammed other instructors into helping her through classes!

About the stalking... it is quite the opposite! She used to stalk me... just like she does many others!!! She learns peoples' schedules and waits for them in the hall so she can get free tutoring when we need to be studying for our own classes!

My only question for you, Boonedocks... Why did you have to embarass yourself?

11/17/2005 5:25:05 PM

Quote :

"Boonedocks, Why are you so ignorant?"

Because I don't read entire posts when they're overly long and whiny.

11/17/2005 5:30:28 PM

hahahahah

this cant be fucking serious



anyone who isnt jewish should recieve extra time

[Edited on November 17, 2005 at 5:33 PM. Reason : scouts honor]

11/17/2005 5:32:25 PM

Quote :

" Because I don't read entire posts when they're overly long and whiny."

I don't appreciate posts when they're short and whiny. Don't you have some business of your own to worry about, Boonedocks?

11/17/2005 8:04:51 PM

yes I do

your mom



oh snap

11/17/2005 8:54:36 PM

Seriously, boonedocks... people typically stop the "your mom" joke sometime around sixth grade... this isn't middle school anymore... What a loser! LOL

11/17/2005 9:46:31 PM

your mom's a loser

and looser

than most loose things.



oh skip

11/17/2005 11:00:44 PM

Quote :

" My only question for you, Boonedocks... Why did you have to embarass yourself?"

Again...

11/18/2005 12:08:10 AM

how can you embarrass yourself more than having the screen name "accountant"?

11/18/2005 1:02:46 AM

Shadowrunner,

You think being an accountant is more embarassing than having a picture of yourself in drag in your photogallery? What a fag!

http://thewolfweb.com/photo_photo.aspx?user=4194&folder=Peeps&photo=118359&filter=

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 7:21 AM. Reason : fix link]

11/18/2005 7:20:27 AM

This thread gets a 10/10 on my whiny bitch-o-meter. If what you're saying is true then it's fucked up. Is it unethical? yes, Against the law? no. Nothing can really be done, you're going by what they said. Hey, if I tell you that one of the professors helped me cheat in my Acc class, are you going to believe me. I've never even taken an accounting class. And I wouldn't go making accusations to a professors back or say it to their face unless it was really serious. If they are actually trying to use their language barrier to gain an unfair advantage in class and succeed, then I applaud them. It's a shitty thing to do, but nothing can be done about it. So I say just let it go, it's not worth stressing over.

11/18/2005 9:03:07 AM

10/10 for predictable response, too. If I was the least bit embarrassed about that picture of me in my own gallery, don't you think I would take it down?

Here, let me help, since you can't even figure out how to post it correctly:

11/18/2005 2:31:40 PM

LOOKING GOOD DAVID

11/18/2005 3:34:48 PM

^^ you still in ye olde england david?

11/18/2005 4:04:13 PM

I just witnessed something mildly unfair.


Let me create an account on my school's internet forum and bitch about it.


Then get trolled.

11/18/2005 4:16:13 PM

i could even explain the reason why i was in drag, and it would make him look even more dumb for making assumptions, but i've explained it before several times and don't care enough.

nope, we finished up in england this summer, came back to the NC area for about a month or two, and now deb and i have moved to houston b/c deb got an offer to do Americorps work with a group here that helps Vietnamese refugees. they were really swamped with people being relocated from Louisiana after Katrina hit, so she decided we should come here.

11/19/2005 4:57:12 PM