OK, let's not argue the death penalty in general here. I just wonder what a person sitting on the death row should do to deserve a pardon that Tookie hasn't done.

[Edited on November 26, 2005 at 11:58 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2005 11:57:57 PM

death penalty should be abolished

but in the meantime, fuck the whole notion of pardons for good behavior

11/26/2005 11:59:15 PM

I forgot who Williams was, and came across this picture while looking him up.

^ Yeah, Wikipedia says he hasn't remounced his membership in the Cripts. So while the death penalty shouldn't exist, I don't see why this guy's deserving of special treatment.

[Edited on November 27, 2005 at 12:03 AM. Reason : .]

11/27/2005 12:01:55 AM

BECAUSE OF THOSE TRICEPS

GOOD LAWD

THOSE TRICEPS ARE ASTOUNDING

11/27/2005 12:05:20 AM

yeah, i saw a blurb on this. apparently some celebs are taking up his cause, im not sure?

life in prison, yes. death penalty? it wont solve the problem. hasnt thus far, and it wont.

11/27/2005 1:46:21 AM

They should have him pulled apart limb by limb by several teams of oxen

11/27/2005 1:55:31 AM

You'd need some strong-ass oxen.

11/27/2005 1:57:12 AM

OK I understand he has done a lot since has been in jail.

BUT, the way the death penalty is implemented in the US is crap.

As soon as he was founf guilty, he should have been executed.

He killed a few people in cold blood, like some Chinese immigrant shopkeepers or something.

He is a bastard and a dastard. Had he been executed for his massacre, he wouldn't be alive, and there would be no discussion of how much he has helped people while in jail

Someone tell me: Why do you have to sit in jail for 10 year waiting to be executed? Why can't they execute people immediately?

11/27/2005 7:18:09 AM

are you serious?

appeals.

11/27/2005 10:19:09 AM

Federally mandated appeals.

FUCK That!

If you want an appeal, you should need to get a judge to give you one! They should not be automatic!

This could all be better dealt with by having the jury sentence them to life imprisonment if there was a chance in hell of them being innocent. That is why the jury has that option! If a jury sentences you to death, wait a year and kill them. If new evidence arrizes in that time, the Governor can pardon or a judge can order an appeal. Otherwise, the odds of new evidence arriving is slim to none.

11/27/2005 11:46:34 AM

The nigger never admitted to his crimes, he never apologized for them, and he never asked for forgiveness.

Its part of the redemption process. But either he has duped himself into believing that he never killed anyone, or he isn't sorry for what he did.

Without any type of atonement for his transgressions, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for him. He deserves to die.

11/27/2005 6:09:01 PM

if he was white and clean cut all of you would want automatic appeals

11/27/2005 6:14:16 PM

WTF, did u just morph into J_Hova?

That might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on TWW



[Edited on November 27, 2005 at 6:17 PM. Reason : 3]

11/27/2005 6:17:13 PM

its a true statement
if he was white and not jacked up you all would have a harder time taking that position

11/27/2005 6:23:19 PM

bullshit, if a person is convicted and sentenced, regardless of race, age, etc. I don't think any automatic appeals are justified. I'm not saying don't give them the opportunity for a judge to grant an appeal, but you shouldn't have an automativ stay of exocution just for being sentenced.

11/27/2005 7:41:06 PM

just keep telling yourself that jimbob

11/27/2005 7:55:27 PM

Quote :

" I just wonder what a person sitting on the death row should do to deserve a pardon that Tookie hasn't done. "

not kill people

11/27/2005 8:55:17 PM

not order a hit on someone about a year or two ago

not neglect to renounce your membership in a gang that has killed countless people since YOU founded it

should I continue?

11/27/2005 9:01:18 PM

for real.

as far as immoral state-funded murder goes, this case isn't too bad.

(seriously)

11/27/2005 9:33:15 PM

Quote :

"its a true statement if he was white and not jacked up you all would have a harder time taking that position"

uhh, no.

11/27/2005 9:38:33 PM

He's on par with mob members, whom I also resent for being glorified murderers.

11/27/2005 9:41:11 PM

if he was actually remorseful and had the death of four innocent people on his conscience then he shouldnt even want to live

11/27/2005 9:50:48 PM

Why do I have the sudden urge to watch this movie?

11/27/2005 9:53:49 PM

because you like to molest little kids

11/27/2005 9:57:15 PM

Because you like to make me maximize my browser window.

11/27/2005 10:06:22 PM

fry his ass and mumia's

at the same time

11/27/2005 10:30:04 PM

Quote :

"OK, let's not argue the death penalty in general here."

Apparently people don't read the first post anymore.

I don't think Tookie deserves a pardon. With the same logic, would it be okay to commute someone's life sentence to twenty years simply because he preached what people wanted to hear while in prison? No. I'm glad he's had a change of heart in prison, but a sentence was issued in accordance with the established methodology of the laws of the land and justice must be served.

11/27/2005 10:39:45 PM

But if that is the case don't we take away from the rehabilitation aspect of punishment?

Say for every 99 inmates interred for 'incarceration' we have 1 that achieves full rehabilitation.

I say tell him to renounce Criphood, then he gets it commuted, otherwise he fries. Everybody knows Tookie isn't going to turn over on anyone.

12/1/2005 9:28:44 PM

Yeah, I admit I didn't know he never openly renounced criphood. If he had, he would have been an ideal candidate for a change of sentence.

12/1/2005 9:32:01 PM

You know, it's the damndest thing, but I just have a hard time trusting people convicted of multiple homicide, especially when it looks like they're about to get fried and start saying they're really good now, they promise.

Quote :

"But if that is the case don't we take away from the rehabilitation aspect of punishment?"

There is no rehabilitation aspect of punishment.

12/2/2005 3:05:51 AM

i have no problem with the death penalty per se

i'd want to know more about the circumstances of the murders and the trial surrounding them (i mean, did the people he waste have it coming to them? is there any chance that he was wrongfully accused?)

I think that academically, this could be a borderline case in my mind. I'd want to know a little more about it to say for sure (I was under the impression that he'd spent like the last 15 years writing books and stuff against gangs and crime, speaking to kids, etc).

if it did turn out to be a borderline case, then i'd say "no, he shouldn't be executed." the death penalty isn't for borderline cases.

and then my ultimate standard is "would it bother me if i were the one to look him in the eye as he was being strapped down, then pull the switches and watch him die?" based on the small amount that i know right now, there's enough that i couldn't do it in completely good concience. i might could rationalize it, but again, that's not indicative of the death penalty being warranted.

again, i am pro-death penalty, but only in cases where I could have the prisoner walk by me, give me a terrified look, beg for mercy, and I'd still be able to coldly look him in the eye, say "You deserve what you're about to get", give him the middle finger, then personally pull the switches and watch him die.

If you aren't hard enough to do that, I don't think you are hard enough to be pro-death penalty, either in general or in a specific case, because there is ultimately no difference.

12/3/2005 2:50:47 AM

for starters, the victims were : 1 7-11 clerk (23 years old), murdered execution style during a robbery; 3 people at a motel (mother, father, daughter) murdered in the same fashion during a robbery. The second murders occured i think a week after the first.

12/3/2005 3:14:13 AM

When cripts become ol' farts.

12/3/2005 9:28:38 AM

I like the death penalty. I think it should stay. You have to remember these people didn't get here by being good citizens or nice people. They got here raping, killing, and doing horrible acts.

12/3/2005 9:34:55 AM

wow, the argument of a twelve year old.

let's completely forget the amount of innocents that have been been on death row, because i'm sure they did something wrong.

12/3/2005 11:03:46 AM

^ GrumpyGOP is gonna tear that argument up as soon as he sees this. Just warning you.

12/3/2005 11:05:37 AM

no he won't, because we've already gotten into it about the death penalty, i'm just completely destroying his [raige's] naive idea of death-row inmates "deserving" it.

[Edited on December 3, 2005 at 11:10 AM. Reason : clarify]

12/3/2005 11:08:39 AM

no, because a lot of them DO deserve it.

I like my take on it.

12/3/2005 11:44:23 AM

i notice how you said "a lot" and not "all"

interesting, considering all of them are on death row.

12/3/2005 12:01:04 PM

Quote :

"let's completely forget the amount of innocents that have been been on death row"

Factually innocent or legally innocent? Because I'm not going to cry over the legally 'innocent' and, to the best of my knowledge, the factually innocent on death row have been very few and very far between. There is no proof that factually innocent people have actually been executed in recent history.

12/3/2005 12:02:25 PM

^^read what i wrote in the earlier post

and i think that the vast majority deserve it

AND--while if i was a Governor, I'd probably be inclined to call off an execution here and there, I'm not willing to abolish the death penalty, for ideological reasons as well as the practical reason that GrumpyGOP argues.

but i do think that if you aren't hard enough to pull the switch yourself, you shouldn't be able to sentence someone to death. Maybe we should require judges and jury members to all be present for executions, and a randomly chosen member to pull the switch.

12/3/2005 12:09:08 PM

i like your idea of personal responsibility when ruling and adminstering the death peanlty, but it's completely irrelevant. if justice is being served by them being killed, then it shouldn't and doesn't make a difference as to who pulls the switch.

the way i see it, you are arguing that it is okay to kill, because he did it first, right? why do we have murder laws in the first place, if we sanction killing with the death penalty.

Quote :

"You know, it's the damndest thing, but I just have a hard time trusting people convicted of multiple homicide, especially when it looks like they're about to get fried and start saying they're really good now, they promise."

is this the practical reason you are talking about? you want to kill them because you think they are insincere and untrustworthy?

12/3/2005 12:46:49 PM

I used to be a big opponent of the death penalty...until I got to witness criminal depravity first-hand working for the court system. I'm still not comfortable with it, but you won't see me agitating for its abolition ever again.

So in Tookie's case, we know he did it. Fry him. And when they're finished, someone photoshop this image so we can add it to the pwnt gallery...

12/3/2005 2:07:13 PM

Quote :

"Coward and Sims then followed Williams and Darryl to the 7-11 market located at 10437 Whittier Boulevard, in Pico Rivera, California. The store clerk, twenty-six year old Albert Lewis Owens, was sweeping the store parking lot. When Darryl and Sims entered the 7-11, Owens put the broom and dust pan he was using on the hood of his car and followed them into the store. Williams and Coward followed Owens into the store. As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens, pulling the sawed-off shotgun from under his jacket and told Owens to “shut up and keep walking.” While pointing the shotgun at Owens’ back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. Not long after, Williams blew out a security camera and then executed Owens, shooting him twice in the back at point blank range as he lay prone on the storage room floor. [3] The pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Owens testified that the end of the barrel was “very close” to Owens’ body when he was shot. One of the two wounds was described as “a near contact wound.” After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted Williams and his associates approximately $120.00. Once back in Los Angeles, Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens. Williams said that he “didn’t want to leave any witnesses.” Williams also said he killed Owens “because he was white and he was killing all white people.” Coward claims that Williams bragged about killing Owens. Williams said, “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him.” Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed about Owens’ death. "

12/3/2005 2:25:54 PM

Statistics For Executions Since 1976

Black 320 (34%)
Hispanic 60 (6. 3%)
White 547 (57. 5%)
Other 22 (2. 3%)


Just pointing out that it ain't got shit to do with race

12/3/2005 2:38:00 PM

Quote :

"the way i see it, you are arguing that it is okay to kill, because he did it first, right? why do we have murder laws in the first place, if we sanction killing with the death penalty."

The way I see it, you're arguing that the death penalty is murder, and I just don't agree.

Is incarceration the same as kidnapping or wrongful imprisonment?

12/3/2005 2:50:06 PM

^pwnt

Quote :

"is this the practical reason you are talking about? you want to kill them because you think they are insincere and untrustworthy?"

Holy Christ, cookie, if that's what you think then there's no point in arguing with you for the simple reason that you don't understand the words being said to you. How can you understand ideas when simple communication is beyond you?

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SPELL OUT WHY I SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY BEFORE YOU GET IT????

I don't accuse people of straw manning much, but goddamn, son.

[Edited on December 3, 2005 at 9:19 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2005 9:18:40 PM

easy buddy, easy. i know why you are for the death penalty.

i was asking if that was the practical reason duke was citing, because i didn't know if he was talking about that or what you said in the other thread.

Quote :

"Is incarceration the same as kidnapping or wrongful imprisonment?"

well, naturally. but where did i say i had a problem with gov't sanctioned kidnapping? if i had a problem with prisons, why would i advocate life sentences? unless we're talking about guantanamo imprisonment. then i have beef. but as it stands, one cannot compare the gravity of murder to imprisonment.

if it's not obvious to you that i am advocating the sanctity of human life, then i guess i haven't made myself clear enough.

grumps, if one could completely prevent a murderer from getting out into society again, would you still prefer the death penalty over life imprisonment?

[Edited on December 3, 2005 at 10:50 PM. Reason : f]

12/3/2005 10:47:23 PM

no, the practical reason i'm talking about is GrumpyGOP's case for the death penalty being the better solution in terms of net sanctity of life.



[Edited on December 3, 2005 at 10:51 PM. Reason : asdf]

12/3/2005 10:49:25 PM

okay, good.

then i pose the same question^^ to you.

[Edited on December 3, 2005 at 10:53 PM. Reason : f]

12/3/2005 10:51:32 PM