So I have been getting the hankering to put a system in my Jeep and am wondering if the tech talk community would be so kind as to give some inputs on components AND features.

Uses for the system in order of importance
1) Music. I have been sitting on the fence for awhile about doing a PC or just getting an ipod, but the following mandates something with a little more screen size than an ipod has.
2) Movies. Not so much for me but being the friend that has the SUV (when everyone else has cars) I am always doing the trip driving.
3) Navigation
These three are the main ones, the following will probably be added later
5) Internet connectivity. Once cost comes down and mostly more for "gee whiz" factor than anything.
6) Game system integration
7) OBDII interfacing
8) Other useless features

Goals:
1) As low cost as possible without sacrificing good usability.
2a) Usability for me in media manipulation, and good usability for movie watching for the passengers.
2b) Size. The options are mini-itx, nano-itx, microatx, and I believe a mac mini would work. At this very early point I think microatx might be the one for me, but I am open to opinions.
3) As low power as possible while being able to play video smoothly or play mp3s and do NAV at the same time. One of the big problems and expenses with a car machine is the power supply. I am perfectly capable of constructing a single 150-200W DC-DC converter or multiple point of load devices if necessary. But I am not prepared to develop a supply for an XP/P4/Raptor/x800 based system and I don't need it anyway.

Budget - I haven't thought it all the way through yet, but I am hoping to keep this as near to 500 as possible for:
mobo
cpu
memory
storage/
dvd drive
maybe vid card
maybe sound card
probably an additional screen or I would make an exception to go over 500 significantly if a third screen really added that much useability.


Questions for you guys.
1) Basically, suggestions on the mobo/cpu technology with emphasis on low power, size, and cost that can do NAV and mp3s seamlessly and play movies no problem.

2) Currently I have a 10.4" screen that I want to use somewhere in the install. I also want back seat passengers to be able to watch movies easily. As a back seat passenger, for a long trip it seems like having to stare down and to the left or right (depending on which seat) might be ergonomically a poor choice. With that in mind that means screens in the headrests. Are 5" screens good enough? Is mounting the 10.4" monitor in the middle good enough for back seaters?

3) Other topics or talking points I missed worthy of discussion.


The idea is that I'll document as much of this as possible so anyone interested in attempting similar will have a reference attached to someone they can talk directly to about questions or issues.

I know OmarBadu, I think bous, and a few others have steups and I'd be particularly interested to hear your 2 cents.

11/30/2005 11:29:33 AM

I'm glad somebody made this thread, I have also been considering doing this for quite some time.

From what I have read about them, most people tend to use the microatx. I haven't really kept up enough to suggest any specific models for you though.

As far as the GPS navigation goes, I've heard really good things about iGuidance
http://store.yahoo.com/inavcorp-store/ignamsoonv2.html

Also, http://www.mp3car.com has a very good forum with all types of FAQs.

Something you might want to think about, where are you planning on keeping the CPU? If in the back, are you planning on stopping and changing the DVD whenever you want to watch something else? I had thought about getting a usb DVD-Rom or maybe a usb enclosure with a really long USB extension cable and mounting it somewhere up front.

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 11:52 AM. Reason : DVD]

11/30/2005 11:50:32 AM

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000323037591/

11/30/2005 12:04:56 PM

a mac mini running linux

11/30/2005 12:06:18 PM

i set mine up over the summer and it turned out very well - a few crappy pics in my gallery - i've been meaning to take better ones

out of all of the help you might get here - http://mp3car.com/vbulletin/ is a lot better - the mp3car community is great and very helpful

1. frontends are pretty much down to roadrunner and frodoplayer now
2. always encorporated into every frontend
3. also embedded - i recommend IGuidance or mapmonkey
5. also tightly integrated - usb cable or bluetooth
6. rarely integrated but can be added on as a program launched from the frontend very easily with emulators
7. go to mp3car.com/vbulletin
8. read 7

i'll answer any questions you have though - but i can almost gaurantee that a better answer would come from mp3car - i got 95% of my information from there and a little bit from a maxima forum

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 12:21 PM. Reason : jdbrumsey just finished his mazda6 that is clean - did some nice fiberglass/bondo work for his dash]

11/30/2005 12:17:52 PM

Yea I've been on mp3car since it's infancy but for the basic cpu requirements I thought this would be a better place. Most of the integration details I can work out myself and I imagine they probably indeed are a better source for most of the other stuff.

Did you end up with a mini Omar or did you go with something x86 based? Also, it is hard to tell from the pics, but what are the basics in regards to your power supply, interface, and dvd/cd drive if you are using one?

11/30/2005 12:28:22 PM

yea, the mini really is the way to go now. you can strip it to fit in a single din with little to no effort, it doesnt need active cooling, its got shit brick tons of power for every concievable car application.

You dont need to run linux, running OSX will get you all the functionality you laid out. Applescript is still some really good shit.

1) iTunes with a touchscreen lcd and or voice recognition

2) quicktime w/ simple applescripts

3) http://www.usglobalsat.com/item.asp?itemid=11 + http://www.66.com/route66/products.php?cid=US&sec=4&ssec=0&prodid=716

4) What happened to 4?

5) It's already got it

6) Simple composite/svideo splitter to the lcd(s)

7) http://www.obddiagnostics.com/ + virtualpc (unfortunately it seems like no one has yet released any OSX/Classic ODBII tools, but it works in virtual pc and with a gig o ram in the mini, should run without issue.


You will probably end up closer to 600 for the mini and building a decent converter. Touchscreen lcd's can be had for 100-150 each, ill go dig up the sites i used to use if you need help finding them.

As for your specific questions:

1) mini, definitely.

2) put it in a roof mounted flip down in the middle. On trips your passengers are going to usually be wedged into either corner of the back and leaning back comfortably anyway, so the positioning shouldn't be a problem. I'm almost certain you can order a prefabbed flipdown casing for a 10.4", I'll look into it more this weekend.

If not, I can help you vacuform one if you want to make something decent looking.

one 10" will be much more appreciated than two 5" screens for movies.

3) get a flip out lcd for the front, dont do one of the custom in dash screen mounts. For one they are hideous and prone to glare during the day, but more importantly, it's a good heads up to thieves when parked that you have some crazy expensive shit inside.


^it might be worth the project to make a frontend for OSX. In fact, I'd be glad to help out in it if you decide to go the mini route.

11/30/2005 1:20:37 PM

currently i'm using an x40 thinkpad (1.1ghz - 768mb ram - audigy 2 pcmcia) under my passenger seat - eventually i'm going to sell it and upgrade to a mini-atx solution - the only problem with a laptop is the typical absence of a shutdown/startup controller - i fixed this with slut's help and we soldered a momentary switch to my dock so i have a push button on button near my driver's seat - i've been out of town for 2 weeks now so i took it with me to do some minor upgrades on it - that's the biggest problem i see with a "desktop" solution is that i'm never really 100% happy and always strive to make it better

i have a slot load cd/dvd drive that i haven't installed yet but it's going where my current factory cd player is now - jdbrumsey has a nice startup/shutdown controller for his setup

what kind of jeep is it going in btw?

11/30/2005 1:22:05 PM

i disagree with noen's remark about the flipdown lcd solution - you will want it in dash and more easily accessible while driving - i don't recommend going with anything other than something windows based because of the massive amounts of development put into it (unless you want to develop your own solution)

glare can be fixed with proper placement and a little bit of tinting

the flipout in dash solutions are okay but in general you will be happier with something always there flush - this could not be the case depending on if you are in a wrangler as opposed to a grand cherokee though

11/30/2005 1:25:45 PM

for ODBII interaction:

http://www.autotap.com/autotap_for_windows.html

I've used it in a non-integrated machine, and its good. $200

11/30/2005 2:36:46 PM

how robust are mac-mini hard drives? If you were to drive over a very bumpy road too many times, couldn't you screw up the hard drive? and if so, i would imagine its a bitch to try to open up that mini to replace its hdd

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 2:49 PM. Reason : s]

11/30/2005 2:48:46 PM

I probably put 20-30k miles and 2 years worth of driving in a Camaro (ie, not a plush ride) on an already 2 year old 10gb hard drive and am currently still using it (now almost 3 years post car install) in a machine in my house.

In all that driving I can think of only two times it locked up due to bumps, one was on huge pothole that Trailwood was notorius for getting and crossing some rail tracks that were particularly bumpy.

Of course, in that machine all I was using it for was music playing so the only time the drive was accessed was when a song was loaded. I imagine a newer system needing to access the disk more might raise the failure rate potential higher, of course we have had 7+ years of better technology going into the drives too, so it's probably a wash.

11/30/2005 2:53:54 PM

Quote :

"3) get a flip out lcd for the front, dont do one of the custom in dash screen mounts. For one they are hideous and prone to glare during the day, but more importantly, it's a good heads up to thieves when parked that you have some crazy expensive shit inside."

A motorized unit you mean?

11/30/2005 3:07:20 PM

my old setup in my camry was a flip out unit - i'd recommend against it - my new setup is leaps and bounds better

11/30/2005 3:15:00 PM

Quote :

"you will want it in dash and more easily accessible while driving"

I'm not exactly sure what you mean? Is it that large a nuisance to pop the screen out?

Also, are you using a VGA input screen in your dash now (was the old one?)...something of the Xenarc or Lilliput variety?

Btw, its a Grand Cherokee.

11/30/2005 3:24:23 PM

Quote :

"how robust are mac-mini hard drives? If you were to drive over a very bumpy road too many times, couldn't you screw up the hard drive? and if so, i would imagine its a bitch to try to open up that mini to replace its hdd"

it uses a laptop drive, so it shouldnt have any real problems locking up. I drove 15k miles cross country this summer, running a laptop in my passenger seat for directions and it never had a problem, and i went on some horrible fucking roads.

Quote :

"i disagree with noen's remark about the flipdown lcd solution - you will want it in dash and more easily accessible while driving - i don't recommend going with anything other than something windows based because of the massive amounts of development put into it (unless you want to develop your own solution) "

if you want it easily accessible while driving, put a screen in the sunvisor. NO in dash or flipup screen is going to be safely seen while driving. You can get a pair of lcd inset visors with 5.5-6" screens for a couple hundred bucks.

Frodoplayer is pretty garbage, I don't know about roadrunner. But if he just wants a drop in software solution, yes OSX is out. Unless he wants to wait until next year when the x86 mini hits the streets.

11/30/2005 5:23:48 PM

i'm using a xenarc now - jdbrumsey has a lilliput - they are the same lcd - just different casing/board - it's not a nuissance to pop it out but most people that go down that road end up replacing it in the end because they realize it's not a good permanent solution

out of the ~1000 ppl on mp3car.com forums that have done this none of them have done just a visor for obvious reasons - and none of them have done a flipdown as the primary display again for obvious reasons if you have to use it everyday

frodoplayer is an amazing app for touchscreen use (it's use for non-touchscreen is absolutely horrible) - what don't you like about it - it's a simple integrated solution with pretty good support - it can't be that bad if it's one of the most used applications

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 5:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2005 5:34:46 PM

i use a microatx solution in the trunk, 7" lcd in-dash manual flip-out (less conspicious than motorized) and flush isn't an option in my dash.

everything is usb, touchscreen, gps, 802.11, illuminated keyboard

uses a celeron D (low power, cheap) / 512 memory (for quick hibernate) / 40gb 2.5" laptop hdd / dvd-rom

runs off a monster 150w inverter, custom mounted rockerswitch in dash, custom mounted 'power-on' led in dash, custom mounted usb port in-dash (for portable storage & gamepad), audio connected via aux-in through head unit (tho i would recommend an amp for noise and power control since pc audio isn't amped up and typically hard to ground)

software is destinator 3 on centrafuse

fairly cheap system, runs great, would highly recommend a VGA panel over cheaper low-res LCD's, would also look at going mini-itx of you can afford it, since it's a JEEP though you may also look at a laptop since there's a good chance your Jeep will get broken into...(if it's a wrangler)

i had a VIA C3 (most proc. in mini-itx) and was greatly dissatisfied with it's performance for video/3D it's incredibly power efficient and cool, but lacks the performance. though the newer versions may be ok

also don't forget, it's technically illegal if any movie is being played in the front dash visible to the driver... 'while driving'

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 6:44 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2005 6:38:13 PM

^^I was recommending a flipdown for the BACK seat passengers, not for the front.

And I did a lot of research on lcd screens for a competition last year. Screens mounted in dash are outside of your driving line of vision. In order to see and comprehend the screen you have to change your viewing angle, refocus, and then make a decision on the screen, or read it's data.

It's EXTREMELY dangerous to do this while driving, especially at high speeds. Which is why most navigation and gps systems are so heavily vocal. If you want a screen for GPS, or frankly for anything while driving, put it in the sunvisor. You can see just fine with it down, especially in a jeep.

Quote :

"frodoplayer is an amazing app for touchscreen use (it's use for non-touchscreen is absolutely horrible) - what don't you like about it - it's a simple integrated solution with pretty good support - it can't be that bad if it's one of the most used applications "

You should know that popularity has no inherent correlation to quality. My biggest problem with it is the lack of any decent skin/ui. And you are reaaallly limited in what you can change and customize in terms of UI. If I had the time to make a skin for it, I'd probably like it more.

11/30/2005 8:27:44 PM

Quote :

"You should know that popularity has no inherent correlation to quality"

So you are saying people are flocking to shit? Your obvious reply is it can be the best in class and still be shit. But this isn't exactly true in this case or many others. Again, it is a semantics argument about what "quality" is.


What are the low power cpu's out there? Pentium M, celly D, XP M, and the C3 (though I don't think I am going to even consider these). Did I miss any intel/amd based processors?

Of those 3, which will be enough to do what I want?

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 9:13 PM. Reason : x]

11/30/2005 9:06:35 PM

Quote :

"Your obvious reply is it can be the best in class and still be shit."

i believe he was saying it is 'popular' not 'best in class', for instance, look at the H2... but notice he didn't use any term such as always or most of the time, or sometimes...

^i would say amd mobile chip are most bang for buck with low power and mostly compatible for desktop use... i used one in my media PC for awhile

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 9:21 PM. Reason : .]

11/30/2005 9:14:45 PM

well dell is a very popular computer builder but they aren't the best as far as quality goes.

also a friend of mine has 2 lcd screens in the visors of his s2000 and it looks pretty slick, also they can't be seen to would be thieves.

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 9:16 PM. Reason : b]

11/30/2005 9:16:15 PM

i'd take someone's advice that has done it before as opposed to something in theory - which is mainly why i said mp3car.com/vbulletin - you will get a lot of conjecture on here that is complete crap

11/30/2005 9:47:18 PM

Quote :

"You can see just fine with it down, especially in a jeep"

having to look up & stare/focus on something right in my face completely inhibits my ability to look at the road in front of me. maybe my sun visor is oddly placed but i can't see shit if i'm trying to look at it & the road at the same time.

11/30/2005 10:03:37 PM

[Edited on November 30, 2005 at 10:45 PM. Reason : terrible idea, nevermind]

11/30/2005 10:43:27 PM

Quote :

"i'd take someone's advice that has done it before as opposed to something in theory"

I've built two carputers, thanks. One of which was before mp3car.com even fucking existed.

Quote :

"having to look up & stare/focus on something right in my face completely inhibits my ability to look at the road in front of me. maybe my sun visor is oddly placed but i can't see shit if i'm trying to look at it & the road at the same time. "

You dont HAVE to look up and refocus, that's the entire point. The screen on visor is IN your periphery. With a properly designed UI, you dont need to refocus on it. Besides, the only thing you should be using the screen for is GPS navigation while driving. selecting music et al should be done via non-visual controls.

Quote :

"So you are saying people are flocking to shit? Your obvious reply is it can be the best in class and still be shit. But this isn't exactly true in this case or many others. Again, it is a semantics argument about what "quality" is."

No, I'm saying it's not that good of a frontend program. It's great that it's out there as opposed to nothing, but it sure as hell shouldn't be qualified as "good". It's a shame a company hasn't come along with a commercial frontend, because it sounds like this is a pretty open market for a good, tightly integrated, low overheard solution.

But to each their own. Give it a go, use one of the ugly as sin, bass ackward skins that some 14yr old thought would look cool when he gets his license, and have fun with it.

11/30/2005 11:29:54 PM

This is simply me wondering out loud, but why doesn't anyone either reverse engineer or mimick a factory system and add enhancements?

Why start from scratch if some company such as BMW has put tons of money into research, controls, etc?

Having a large LCD touchscreen seems like a poor long term choice IMO.

11/30/2005 11:46:10 PM

i agree with most of what noen says on this site - but he's simply off base with this topic - maybe just not up to date with the current information on the topic

11/30/2005 11:52:14 PM

yeah, i'd go PC and in-dash, don't do visor or mini, tho Noen makes a good point, come 2006 you'll be able to use an x86 mini, perfect carpc equipment.

frodoplayer / road runner / centrafuse

alll good choices, goto mp3car.com see which front-end you like the best and will work the best, and have at it, those guys are very helpful

and Noen i know you know how to make skins... and you've gotta separate the 'poor skin design' from the 'bad program design'

12/1/2005 12:11:53 AM

http://www.bmwportal.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=37

This looks interesting if you could find a BMW module (junkyard?)

12/1/2005 12:18:41 AM

Stop manipulating the argument with statements that don't make sense. This is your problem time and time again on anything that isn't pure fact. You invent something to support your arguments and half the time you either don't think them out or the other half you must just go with it because you are dead set on winning. Of all people that post in here I am not sure you have ever admitted that your initial stance doesn't make sense.

For example:

Quote :

"You dont HAVE to look up and refocus, that's the entire point. The screen on visor is IN your periphery. With a properly designed UI, you dont need to refocus on it. Besides, the only thing you should be using the screen for is GPS navigation while driving. selecting music et al should be done via non-visual controls. "

If I am not refocusing on the screen for anything, why does it matter where it is? Furthermore, this is a completely unrealistic expectation. Completely unrealistic. I honestly don't see how in the world you expect to search playlist and find songs you want to play without looking at the screen. I ran a system for years mounted very low and used a very crude playlist navigation tool that I wrote. For all of 1 day I had the screen mounted to my visor because at first blush this seems to make sense. It didn't work for me and based on what tons of other people do, it doesn't work for them either. It is much much easier from a saftey point of view to keep the traffic in my peripheral than to have it completely blocked by the visor, and it would be blocked, which is quite the contrary to your assertion. The only way I can envision it not being blocked is with the screen tilted back a little and the driver leaned back in his seat somewhat (similar to how your average black guy drives for example).

Quote :

"Which is why most navigation and gps systems are so heavily vocal."

So which is it? Sure we need to see the nav screen sometimes, but if its heavily vocal, I think having it in dash makes much more sense if I am only having to glance occasionally. You aren't supporting your argument very well with your own words.

Quote :

"I've built two carputers, thanks. One of which was before mp3car.com even fucking existed. "

I'm not saying you are lying or anything, but I find it a bit odd that I know of nearly 5 other regular posters who have done car machines and in all these years of posting on this board I don't ever remember you mentioning one nor do I ever remember seeing anything on snotmonkey.

You killed your own credibility argument in regards to knowing what is right because you have supposedly done in car machines when you said just because a peice of software is popular doesn't mean it is good earlier.

12/1/2005 1:31:46 AM

Quote :

" having to look up & stare/focus on something right in my face completely inhibits my ability to look at the road in front of me. maybe my sun visor is oddly placed but i can't see shit if i'm trying to look at it & the road at the same time."

12/1/2005 1:41:24 AM

yeah i couldnt look up at the visor and still focus on the road either. maybe its an SUV thing.

12/1/2005 2:27:22 AM

on my SUV, if my visor is flipped down I can't see out the windshield at all.

my carputer is going to have a roofmounted touch-screen flipdown VGA LCD because I think aftermarket in-dash LCD's look like shit no matter how well the fabrication around them is done.

Plus there's no room on my dash for one.

My biggest prob is finding a place for the box itself. NO SPACE whatsoever except maybe within the interior body panels.

12/1/2005 9:17:28 AM

there is a reason that it's been done the way it's done by hundreds of people - it's not b/c it was the easiest way - it's because it works the best - nobody ever uses a visor - it's a stupid fucking idea - just go to mp3car.com/vbulletin and lock this thread

12/1/2005 10:57:47 AM

Um, no, don't lock this thread.

I think I am going to go with this board

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813123216

that several people on mp3car have used and are happy with. I like the dual vga out.


Maugun, are you talking a flipdown for yourself or for back seat peeps?

12/1/2005 11:26:45 AM

Quote :

"I think aftermarket in-dash LCD's look like shit no matter how well the fabrication around them is done. "

Ive got a friend who does shit like this as a hobby and i would much rather have his fiberglassed whatthefuckever japanese import LCD frame in my dash then any honda OEM trash.

12/1/2005 1:19:24 PM

this one looks pretty damn good

and that's starting from


I will hopefully one day be able to afford to components to put one together in my altima

12/1/2005 1:32:45 PM

cornbread, thats probably one of the best I've seen (which admittedly aint much).

still doesn't strike me as "that's not stock!?"

12/1/2005 1:38:59 PM

Here is stock with the navigation system

12/1/2005 2:26:11 PM

cornbread:

you're doing a good job in convincing me that I'm an idiot.

Who knows, maybe its just the sight of google in a car thats throwing me off

12/1/2005 2:29:08 PM

Quote :

"So which is it? Sure we need to see the nav screen sometimes, but if its heavily vocal, I think having it in dash makes much more sense if I am only having to glance occasionally. You aren't supporting your argument very well with your own words."

Quote :

"there is a reason that it's been done the way it's done by hundreds of people - it's not b/c it was the easiest way - it's because it works the best - nobody ever uses a visor - it's a stupid fucking idea - just go to mp3car.com/vbulletin and lock this thread"

none of you have to believe me, but my research on it, and the fact that the product I made from that research, a fucking visor based screen, won a NATIONAL TRAFFIC SAFETY COMPETITION, should lend at least a LITTLE validity to my fucking opinion.






Seeing as a panel of respected, long time, automobile safety people thought it was a good damn idea AS DIRECTLY COMPARED TO IN DASH displays.

But I'm sure hundreds of DIYer's on a damn forum know better. Seeing how none of you have probably ever seen a lcd inset visor (which are almost always half-height compared to a normal visor), how the fuck are yall qualified to comment?

I will concede to maugan, that for us tall guys, it is more likely an obstruction to forward sight, but saying you can't see the road with it down is just fucking ignorant.

And YOU DONT LOOK AT THE DAMN THING DIRECTLY. IT"S CALLED PERIPHERAL FUCKING VISION. JEsUS CHRIST YOU PEOPLE ARE DENSE.

Quote :

"I'm not saying you are lying or anything, but I find it a bit odd that I know of nearly 5 other regular posters who have done car machines and in all these years of posting on this board I don't ever remember you mentioning one nor do I ever remember seeing anything on snotmonkey."

That image has been in my gallery for years. I had an article about it on a long gone version of snotmonkey but it's been lost to the ages. It ran with a remote control hacked from a wireless rf mouse and a custom inset keypad, with a 2x44 (IIRC) LCD panel running through a serial port.

The first one I did back in 1997 and it was a monstrosity.

Wait for the x86 mini.

And Omar, I completely agree, it's the lack of any decent skin that really irritates the shit out of me. But MAKING a good one is a pain in the ass with frodo, because it's got such a thrown together set of tools.

[Edited on December 1, 2005 at 3:01 PM. Reason : .]

12/1/2005 2:59:36 PM

Quote :

"And YOU DONT LOOK AT THE DAMN THING DIRECTLY. IT"S CALLED PERIPHERAL FUCKING VISION. JEsUS CHRIST YOU PEOPLE ARE DENSE."

CAN YOU READ THIS STATEMENT

AND CLICK THE POST REPLY BUTTON

AND TYPE YOUR RESPONSE

ALL WITHOUT ACTUALLY LOOKING AT YOUR MONITOR?

Quote :

"none of you have to believe me, but my research on it, and the fact that the product I made from that research, a fucking visor based screen, won a NATIONAL TRAFFIC SAFETY COMPETITION, should lend at least a LITTLE validity to my fucking opinion."

I just wonder where you find the gaul to tell me and 100s (maybe 1000s of others) what their preference is? I did it again when driving, I can glance at my radio and back to the road and have a better field of view than if I put my visor down (which halves my field of view whether I am looking at it or not) Where is your reasearch, since you are using it as firepower for your arguments. Let's see some statistics, links, etc.

Quote :

"Seeing as a panel of respected, long time, automobile safety people thought it was a good damn idea AS DIRECTLY COMPARED TO IN DASH displays."

YOU CREATED A SEE THROUGH PANEL TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. That is a whole different can of worms, it shouldn't even enter into the disucssion.

Quote :

"I will concede to maugan, that for us tall guys, it is more likely an obstruction to forward sight, but saying you can't see the road with it down is just fucking ignorant."

Not just tall guys. And again I'd like to ask you, you are sitting in my brain looking out of my eyes and telling me what I see? Stop using his hyperbole of "not being able to see" literally as some basis for more typed diarrhea that you think helps your aguments.

12/1/2005 3:26:57 PM

I'm not trying to say anyone's an idiot. I just thing this stuff is bad ass, I want to do it, but I lack the funds.

12/1/2005 3:43:13 PM

Be intresting to strip an LCD down, and see how much sunlight you could push through it with some crazy wacky polarizing reflective 3M jargon. At night you would still need a backlight, but that could slide in from the side, those lighting tubes are small. You would be able to see through the panel and at the road a bit, not enough to do an autocross cone course, but enough to see if the dumb volvo broad slammed on her breaks.

12/1/2005 4:07:44 PM

if my visor is down i am looking at the road through a 3" gap
i cant see stoplights or really anything above the height of an suv

maybe its because my eyes are screwed up but a visor isnt comfortably in my peripheral vision like the center consol is. looking at the visor i really have to adjust the focus of my eyes to see anyhting, but i can quickly glance at the area where the radio is. also the visor is outside of the triangle path so it would mean more time away from the road.

12/1/2005 4:29:33 PM

sup Saturn Ion



[Edited on December 1, 2005 at 5:49 PM. Reason : As a side note, test driving that shit was awkward as hell.]

12/1/2005 5:48:40 PM

Quote :

"So I have been getting the hankering "

+10 pts for use of the word hankering

12/1/2005 5:55:28 PM

Quote :

"I just wonder where you find the gaul to tell me and 100s (maybe 1000s of others) what their preference is? I did it again when driving, I can glance at my radio and back to the road and have a better field of view than if I put my visor down (which halves my field of view whether I am looking at it or not) Where is your reasearch, since you are using it as firepower for your arguments. Let's see some statistics, links, etc."

Since when did I say a goddamn thing about people's PREFERENCES? I am talking about SAFETY. And if you even fucking TRY to tell me that the general population has any fucking ability to regulate their own safety, my head will explode.

My research is the fucking 5 grand in that picture above, the pending patents on my device, and the multiple industry contacts.

Quote :

"YOU CREATED A SEE THROUGH PANEL TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. That is a whole different can of worms, it shouldn't even enter into the disucssion."

That was BASED on the existing use of LCD sun visors. Is my product different? Absolutely. Does it spring from existing products? Absolutely.

Quote :

"Be intresting to strip an LCD down, and see how much sunlight you could push through it with some crazy wacky polarizing reflective 3M jargon. At night you would still need a backlight, but that could slide in from the side, those lighting tubes are small. You would be able to see through the panel and at the road a bit, not enough to do an autocross cone course, but enough to see if the dumb volvo broad slammed on her breaks."

Except it uses a oled panel, not an lcd panel. Polarized screens aren't wacky jargon, and you dont need a backlight.

Don't worry, I'll leave you kids to your thread of ride pimping. Go have fun.

12/1/2005 10:11:30 PM

The first time you mentioned the visor

Quote :

"if you want it easily accessible while driving, put a screen in the sunvisor. NO in dash or flipup screen is going to be safely seen while driving. You can get a pair of lcd inset visors with 5.5-6" screens for a couple hundred bucks. "

Your 5000 check was for a small see through lcd design which will be smaller than what I would want in there. I want to see safety studies. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS BIG BOY.

I'll concede that my very informal glance at radio (which I have been doing all my life) versus putting visor down blocking half my view might not apply for a large population of people, but you can go drive your fancy saturn with cool "mock up" sun visor into a lake if you think I am too stupid to know which option is safer for me.

Quote :

"You can see just fine with it down, especially in a jeep."

While I am posting, I just wanted to point out more places where you invent stuff to make your arguments (as I mentioned before and in other threads). You wanna come down to Holly Springs you can sit in my Grand Cherokee and see it for yourself since you clearly haven't done it yet.

Quote :

"You dont HAVE to look up and refocus, that's the entire point. The screen on visor is IN your periphery."

You also never explained how I am supposed to navigate a play list without actually looking at the screen.

12/1/2005 10:32:27 PM