Quote :

"make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute, watching my reaction. I was in agony. They must have done this 20 to 30 times, in maybe two hours. There was blood all over. "I told you I was going to teach you who's the man," [one] eventually said. They cut all over my private parts. One of them said it would be better just to cut it off, as I would only breed terrorists. I asked for a doctor."

Quote :

"The interrogator told me what was going on. "We're going to change your brain," he said."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1540750,00.html

12/7/2005 12:45:31 AM

That's some scary shit. That's just like what they did to Winston in 1984. Fucking unbelievable. I'm serious in saying every person in the Bush adminstration is guilty of treason as are most people in Congress. I wonder how long it will be before our own citizens become victims of these sort of atrocities.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 12:50 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 12:50:26 AM

yeah, this was in The Guardian a while back...i dont care if you support torture or not, THAT is unnecessary (as long as its true).

12/7/2005 12:52:46 AM

Quote :

"Recruits to some groups connected to al-Qaida are thought to be instructed to make allegations of torture after capture, and most of Mohammed's claims cannot be independently verified."

I'm skeptical.

12/7/2005 12:56:32 AM

I'm not skeptical. The Bush administration is preventing other evidence of our torture from being released.

12/7/2005 1:00:51 AM

well, he seems pretty knowledgeable of western things (he knew it was aerosmith playing), doesnt seem like your hardcore jihadist, but then again, who knows.

but i wouldnt put it past our govt's incompetance to have some idiots doing this shit in a vaccuum with no strict authority to report it all to.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 1:02 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 1:01:14 AM

Oh, I believe it's true. I'm sure it's happened alot more often and probably is happening now as we speak. And shit like this will continue because the Republicans will continue to convince people that the "terrorists" need to be tortured to ensure national security. Most people won't care, of course until they become the terrorists.

12/7/2005 1:01:37 AM

^^He grew up in London.

^Yes, I'm sure they just kept slicing his penis on a regular basis for 18 months. It makes perfect sense.


It sounds like a load of bullshit that someone who hates the US would make up... ie it sounds like exactly what you want to hear.

12/7/2005 1:08:31 AM

^ hope this isnt one of those "believe nothing from europe" statements

12/7/2005 1:14:19 AM

^^^ Yea, sure. Uh hu.

The Republicans are being indefensible idiots by arguing that torture, at some point, is necessary. To argue that the Republicans are currently, actively, politically, torturing people is complete idiocy and implies a simpler world than exists.

For example, we have many alternatives to state sanctioned torture. For example, state condemned torture, as seen numerous times on 24. Give agents the freedom to do so and they will opt to torture, as necessary, to get the job done. You can prosecute them later, as soon as someone testifies
They will promptly be acquitted. You see, our jury system rules out the need for legal protections.

Secondly, if the local agents just can't do it (concience/believe the propaganda) then just have one of our "friends" take care of it. I'm sure Saudi Arabia would be happy to torture a British Citizen for us.

I don't believe Republicans are actually directing the military to engage in torture because they obviously do not need to. A wink and a nod should always suffice To believe otherwise is indefensible.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 1:15 AM. Reason : ^^ ^]

12/7/2005 1:14:42 AM

^^No, I'm just extremely skeptical of the uncorraborated account of one detained terrorist. It is inevitable that these guys will lie to try to make the US look even worse in the wake of Abu Grhaib and the eastern European prisons.

I'm inclined to think that this guy's account is too outlandish to be true.
Of course if it is true, somebody should be castrated for what happened to this guy.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 1:23 AM. Reason : 2]

12/7/2005 1:20:34 AM

Damn, people will believe anything.

If we were doing things like this we would simply kill off the people we were doing it to. Interrogations are not handled like this. Hell, physical torture is not as effective as people think it is and not the best method for getting what you want anyways.

12/7/2005 9:48:46 AM

so where is this guy now? how did he write a diary of the torture?
and if this is real where are the pictures of his scars?

12/7/2005 10:00:22 AM

Quote :

"Oh, I believe it's true."

Quote :

"I'm not skeptical."

Based on this?

That's a new intellectual low, even for you g uys.

12/7/2005 10:10:01 AM

i'll doubt it if you can show me the motives he has to lie. if he gets something out of this, then i will question his story. until then, i don't really have an opinion of its veracity, so i will withhold judgement.

12/7/2005 1:16:27 PM

how did he escape, i dont know the story
or am i supposed to beleive they tortured the shit out of him and then let him go

and

Quote :

"if this is real where are the pictures of the scars"

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 1:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 1:18:20 PM

you just wanna see his penis.

12/7/2005 2:00:08 PM

he said he also got cut on the chest

12/7/2005 2:09:39 PM

This thread started like a Penthouse letter but quickly turned into the same torture thread again.

12/7/2005 2:12:15 PM

disappointed?

"took my penis into his hand...."

12/7/2005 3:44:41 PM

I couldn't believe that this was happening to me........


Anyways, I give the odds of there being some truth to this at about 50/50. I really don't have any reason to dismiss it out of hand. I trust my govt. about as far as I can throw it right now.

12/7/2005 3:47:27 PM

is pryderi Howard Dean's son, because they both spout the same bullshit.

12/7/2005 3:55:32 PM

I'm not dismissing it out of hand and I didn't mean to give that impression. But to actually believe it without skepticism is so laughably stupid that my vocabulary doesn't even contain words enough to describe the afforementioned stupidity.

12/7/2005 3:59:18 PM

Grumpy uses Wikipedia as a source and then assesses intellectual level of others. I would say "it's his new low" but it really isn't. He's very very stupid.

That being said, the account reads (to me) as an anti-Hollywood script. Much like American idiots cannot fathom an evil man unless he say in evil voice: "I HATE FREEDOM!! BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!", this guy apears to be catering to the same kinda crowd: "I WILL SHOW YOU WHO IS THE MAN!" Because that's how people talk.

12/7/2005 4:02:08 PM

i have no idea what you just said

12/7/2005 4:04:08 PM

I forget who, but there was recent isotope annalysis done on an individuals hair that actually proved where he was and actually cooberates his claims of malnurishment and such.

I heard it on the BBC last night. I'll try to find the link.

12/7/2005 4:06:21 PM

how did he escape, i dont know the story
or am i supposed to beleive they tortured the shit out of him and then let him go

and

Quote :

"if this is real where are the pictures of the scars"

12/7/2005 4:08:40 PM

Quote :

"cooberates"

WTF? "Corroborates," maybe? And God only knows that there couldn't be a reason other than US abuse that a person in Afghanistan and Pakistan might be malnourished.

Quote :

"Grumpy MathFreak uses Wikipedia numbers that for all we know he made up as a source and then assesses intellectual level of others."

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 4:18 PM. Reason : ]

12/7/2005 4:17:59 PM

Quote :

"i'll doubt it if you can show me the motives he has to lie. if he gets something out of this, then i will question his story. until then, i don't really have an opinion of its veracity, so i will withhold judgement."

Why did the Marine/journalist lie about his stories? Why did the Blue Jays bench coach say he fought in Vietnam? Why did the Washington Post writer make up sources for stories? Why did that dumb bitch say she was raped then say it was no big deal because he was hot? Some people are just glory-seeking blow-hards, some are pathological liars, some are mentally unbalance, and some are just Democrats.

There was another guy recently who claimed he was tortured and is suing the CIA for $75,000... clearly not an American because a finger in some chili is worth more than $75,000 in this country. Thats like pocket change in damages.

12/7/2005 4:23:52 PM

You know what Ian Booth?

I'm tired and at work

I don't have time to play your petty change the subject games

and the man wasn't being detained in Pakistan or Afghanistan

but I'm glad to know that you know everything about everything and that George Bush can do no wrong

12/7/2005 4:33:13 PM

Quote :

""Grumpy MathFreak uses Wikipedia numbers that for all we know he made up as a source and then assesses intellectual level of others.""

But then you don't know much, do you? Go march some place.

12/7/2005 4:33:17 PM

Quote :

"and the man wasn't being detained in Pakistan or Afghanistan"

way to miss the point, tonto

12/7/2005 4:35:10 PM

And what point is that? That GrumpyGOP is a retard?

not everyone who is being held in these places were found in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

12/7/2005 4:37:02 PM

Jesus Christ dude

Where does all this marching talk come from?

Look, you gave numbers, and then did not tell us where they came from. You are not somehow infinitely more trustworthy on the subject of Russia war casuaties by virtue of being Russian. Sorry.

Quote :

"You know what Ian Booth?"

Oh noes, he's got my last name!

Quote :

"and the man wasn't being detained in Pakistan or Afghanistan"

No, but that's where he was right up prior to his detainment, and it isn't like Morocco is the world nutrition capital, either.

Quote :

"but I'm glad to know that you know everything about everything and that George Bush can do no wrong"

Here you go with this shit, pretending you've never seen me explicitly say that Bush has done wrong, many times on this site.

And I don't know everything, which is why I don't say, "This man was not tortured," or "This man was tortured," because right now all we have to go on is his suspect testimony, the unqualified opinion of a T-dub guy whose every life choice is informed by a seething hatred of the administration, and your barely-legible claim that there was an analysis by someone on someone's something, somewhere, that if it is true about this individual only corroborates one fairly small part of his story.

12/7/2005 4:39:08 PM

Quote :

" No, but that's where he was right up prior to his detainment, and it isn't like Morocco is the world nutrition capital, either."

once again, you have shown your ignorance on the subject. Besides, I do believe morroco to be rather low on the list of countries with high malnourishment rates. But don't let your jingoism get in the way. Furthermore, if an individual is in a detention center and being properly fed, as the laws of the United States require, then that individuals hair would demostrate that. Besides, what is so hard to understand about an individual who was detained had an isotope analysis done on his hair to prove the location he was and proved he was mistreated. I told you I find the link, but to be honest with you, I'm going to take your route and tell you to look it up yourself.

And the marching comes from the fact that you are a neo-fascist.

Here is a story on the guy. doesn't exactly seem like the type of individual who would already enter into detainment suffering from malnurishment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4504292.stm


Here is a report from Der Spiegel

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,341636,00.html

Quote :

"According to initial results, el-Masri's story is, in fact, true. Fearing far-reaching global diplomatic consequences, the German government, however, wants to see the case treated rather discretely. After all, el-Masri's allegations are not directed at some random rogue state but at the most powerful nation in the world and a close partner of Germany's. Government officials here are concerned: The explosive topic shouldn't, under any circumstances, harm trans-Atlantic relations now that there has been, with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's visit to Europe last week, the first noticeable sign of rapprochement between Germany and the US since the Iraq conflict."

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 4:46 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 4:41:17 PM

Quote :

"Besides, I do believe morroco to be rather low on the list of countries with high malnourishment rates. But don't let your jingoism get in the way."

He's not chauvinistic. He's just a retard who most likely doesn't even know where Morocco is. I bet he's the most educated in his family though. At least he knows the word "malnourishment".

12/7/2005 4:48:59 PM

They are a foreign country. They must be poor and underfed

12/7/2005 4:49:59 PM

Well, he was born in bumfuck and then never got any real education. Be reasonable with your expectations.

12/7/2005 4:55:39 PM

Well I'd say that part of the problem is that you're talking about a completely different guy than the one this thread is about.

Quote :

"Besides, I do believe morroco to be rather low on the list of countries with high malnourishment rates."

Never said otherwise, just that it wasn't the best in the world. I doubt that the US is best in the world, either; in fact, I'm quite certain of it. The point was that it is not at all unreasonable that a man could be malnourished in Morocco, Macedonia, Afghanistan, or Pakistan. Not starving, mind you; simply malnourished.

Quote :

"if an individual is in a detention center and being properly fed, as the laws of the United States require, then that individuals hair would demostrate that."

I think we're going to need to hear a little more about this. The man probably had his hair for quite a while, and pending more information it seems to indicate certain things that may or may not have been inflicted by US or US-sponsored personell.

Quote :

"He's just a retard who most likely doesn't even know where Morocco is."

There are a great many things of which I am ignorant. Geography is not one of those things.



[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 5:02 PM. Reason : I'll be back later, don't you worry]

12/7/2005 4:59:19 PM

Wait... did someone say Morocco?

We all know that the Moroccan flag has a pentagram.


We also know the pentagram has long been associated with the occult, the Thundercats, and the Masons. Masons are long known to be the Luciferians that are pulling the strings behind government forces, like the CIA. Its becoming more well known how the CIA tortures people, like the man in question. If you look at the link for the image above you will see: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/mo-flag.gif The term "Mo" is well known as a slang term for homosexuals and the pentagram on the flag entitled "Mo" shows the connection between the homosexual touching of the penis during torture and the Luciferian Masons at the CIA (from their own website, remember).

Now, remember that the Pentagram is also well known to be the symbol of mathematical perfection to the Pythagoreans, a cult fascinated by the divine power of numbers. Most would describe a Pythagorean as a MathFreak... coincidence? I think not.

Is MathFreak's interest in this thread strictly political banter or is it soemthing deeper... perhaps he is in fact a satan-worshipping homosexual in the Free Masons who has first hand knowledge of penis-touching and other masochistic "CIA" torture methods in his cult's homeland of Morocco? You decide!

12/7/2005 5:28:39 PM

Quote :

"I think we're going to need to hear a little more about this. The man probably had his hair for quite a while, and pending more information it seems to indicate certain things that may or may not have been inflicted by US or US-sponsored personell."

Hair is such a great thing to test because it shows different stages of a persons life. Hair doesn't change once it has grown.

Quote :

"Never said otherwise, just that it wasn't the best in the world. I doubt that the US is best in the world, either; in fact, I'm quite certain of it. The point was that it is not at all unreasonable that a man could be malnourished in Morocco, Macedonia, Afghanistan, or Pakistan. Not starving, mind you; simply malnourished."

Let's see, a German citizen relatively well off. Why would he be starving in Macedonia? Why would he be starving in Morocco, why was he in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Oh that's right, because the US kidnapped him and took him to Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Honestly, based upon your statement, you've made the largest loophole for the United States to jump through. They just have to claim that he was malnourished beforehand because as you've cleverly shown us, you can be malnourished anywhere in the world. So the government claims he was malnourished before they kidnapped him and took him to Afghanistan/Pakistan and you'll believe them. Good job fascist.

12/8/2005 8:45:38 AM

Quote :

"Besides, I do believe morroco to be rather low on the list of countries with high malnourishment rates. But don't let your jingoism get in the way. "

wtf does jingoism have to do with morrocos malnourishment rate

you seem to like that word a lot. did you just recently learn what it means and feel smart by using it in a sentence?

12/8/2005 9:29:31 AM

Quote :

"So the government claims he was malnourished before they kidnapped him and took him to Afghanistan/Pakistan and you'll believe them."

I don't know about all that. At the moment the big thing is that I need to hear more about the hair test and its results. The paper's references to it are pretty vague.

Even if the tests do indicate that he was kidnapped and that he was malnourished, we haven't yet got solid evidence that the US was the one malnourishing him. He could have had food and refused to eat it -- the hunger strike has been employed before by people who felt their treatment was unjust.

Look, if I get shot in your house, it makes you a suspect but it doesn't convict you.

12/8/2005 9:42:27 AM

^^Think about how I used it. Grumpy was making a statement about a country he knows little about in terms of how they suck compared to the united states. Jingoism is the proper phrase.

Quote :

" Even if the tests do indicate that he was kidnapped and that he was malnourished, we haven't yet got solid evidence that the US was the one malnourishing him. He could have had food and refused to eat it -- the hunger strike has been employed before by people who felt their treatment was unjust."

That's only part of his lawsuit. The other part is the illegal imprisonment. The United States had no reason to kidnap him. The hair test is the basis to prove that he was in fact kidnapped and illegally held hostage in Afghanistan/Pakistan.

12/8/2005 9:47:29 AM

derka derka

muhammad jihad!

12/8/2005 9:50:45 AM

^^ where did he compare it to the united states?

moreover, what was chauvinistic about him saying Morroco is malnourished? In what aspect did he imply that the US was better and that Morroco was a lesser country because of this?

12/8/2005 9:58:52 AM

Quote :

"Grumpy was making a statement about a country he knows little about"

How could you possibly know how much I know about any given country on the planet? Honestly.

Quote :

" The United States had no reason to kidnap him."

And we know this...how?

12/8/2005 11:43:00 AM

so could someone answer my question? did they just let him go or did he escape, i dont know the story?

12/8/2005 11:44:19 AM

Yeah, I'm also having trouble with the "We starved/tortured/kidnapped/whatevered him and then just let him go with an, 'Our bad, plz don't tell anybody.'"

12/8/2005 11:45:28 AM

Quote :

"In what aspect did he imply that the US was better and that Morroco was a lesser country because of this?"

It is because he chose morocco. Why didn't he chose a country like Italy if he was making the statement that anyone from anywhere can be malnourished?

Quote :

"How could you possibly know how much I know about any given country on the planet? Honestly."

Because you compared Morrocco to fucking Afghanistan you dumbshit. If you knew an eighth of what you think you know then you'd be intelligent.

Quote :

"Yeah, I'm also having trouble with the "We starved/tortured/kidnapped/whatevered him and then just let him go with an, 'Our bad, plz don't tell anybody.'""

Kind of like when a death row inmate is exonerated they free them and say, "My bad."

God forbid you have any such cognitive dissonance.

12/8/2005 1:36:01 PM