So my four year old Pom mix just bit me for the first time.

A little background: his trachea is collapsed from previous abuse and the poor thing was constantly dragged from underneath the bed and punished. He was also kept outside for days at a time on a porch without protection. I adopted him back in June.

He has snarled at me before when I have went to get him out from under the bed (his safe spot) but today he went and did it and bit the SHIT out of my finger. He was trying to eat a roach house! I have barricaded the bed off so he can no longer get under it and I have set up his crate in my room. He is not really crate trained and I usually keep him in the kitchen during the day.

Suggestions? I'm not sure if the crate is large enough to keep him in except to sleep. Please help

12/8/2005 10:10:31 PM

The crate should not be used as a punishment since the dog may be sleeping in there. Try to use positive reinforcement (like give him treats when he comes to you). Don't think of putting the dog in the crate as being mean to the dog.

12/8/2005 10:15:38 PM

[Edited on December 8, 2005 at 10:16 PM. Reason : tww skipped, double post]

12/8/2005 10:16:21 PM

From what i've read, the crate shouldn't be huge. I think I should be big enough for him to stand in and turn around... but not to be able to make separate areas (like for going potty) in. Google it just to double check

[Edited on December 8, 2005 at 10:19 PM. Reason : clarification]

12/8/2005 10:19:10 PM

I don't plan to use it as punishment
I didn't hurt him when he bit me because it was clearly my fault...He had already warned me when I tried the first time.
Goggle says:
A 24 " long crate will be most appropriate.
In general, dogs in this category will weigh about
11 - 25 pounds. Your dog should be able to stand up and turn around comforably.

Major is 15 lbs. My crate is like 18x24...

12/8/2005 10:24:57 PM

Goodness, what a little brat!

Well, first make sure you aren't making excuses for your pet. Yes, he may have been abused earlier, but that's no reason to accept the behavior now. The good news: dogs aren't socially mature until they are ~2 years old...plenty of time to form that little mind.

The best thing to do for your Pom is to crate train the little guy. Turn his new safe spot into the crate, not the bed. Keep him in the crate while you are away (and can't keep an eye on him to make sure he stays safe) and while you are sleeping. The fact that he tried to eat a roach house shows that he cannot be left unsupervised. Crating him will keep him safe (and dogs just sleep when we leave the house anyway so he won't be missing out on much.)

Make sure you aquaint him to his new safety zone. Feed him in the crate, put safe toys in there, make it a fun place. Yes, he will cry at first, but he'll get used to it and will eventually enjoy it. Also, vary the amount of time you keep him in there. If you crate him 8 hours at a time, he'll anticipate a long absence from your company and hate every minute of it. Try an hour here, 20 minutes, there, 4 hours, etc. My dog is crate trained. That's her home when I'm alseep or out of the house (she see's me putting on my shoes, grabs a toy and head for the crate!)

Hopefully you are socializing him with other dogs, people and situations to build his confidence, this will make a world of difference. Exercise, fun walks, playing tug will build his confidence in you. Make sure this little guy isn't resource guarding. Make sure at any point you can touch his food, take his toys away from him, handle him, etc. Let him know you contol resources.

Lastly, try not to overreact. I'm sure you saw the roach house in his mouth and freaked out (I prolly would have done the same thing). If you calmly walked over and took it from him, he may not have flipped out, ran to his safe zone and bitten you.

Invest in a larger crate if he doesn't have a problem with accidents. Go ahead and get a $60 medium or large dog crate if that makes you feel better about leaving him.

Hopefully you are in some sort of puppy class. This will help you guys out so so so much. Seriously think about investing the money in one, it will be well worth it. They are $95.00 at Glenwood Animal and Oberlin Animal hospitals (it's a 6 week course). Also, Petsmart has them too (don't know how much, though).

I got an abused and submissive dog and classes have made a huge difference. She's more responsive to me and trusts me when I do weird things (like try to make her go through tunnel). As an outlet, I do a class or some sort of training constantly. We did agility and now we are doing tracking/search and rescue. A busy dog is a tired dog

Ah well, good luck!

12/8/2005 10:29:19 PM

just beat his ass a few more times

12/8/2005 10:40:03 PM

Quote :

"Lastly, try not to overreact. I'm sure you saw the roach house in his mouth and freaked out (I prolly would have done the same thing). If you calmly walked over and took it from him, he may not have flipped out, ran to his safe zone and bitten you. "

I didn't overreact. I saw him run to my roommate's bathroom, where he normally goes to get into trouble, and I peeked under the bed when I heard him shuffle under there. I saw the roach house and wet cat food can and I took them away. Then I reached under to get him out, gently and slowly, and he growled at me and took my hand in his mouth. I waited a few moments and then tried again and he bit and missed and then he got me.

So now we have the crate set up in my room and I'm going to try putting him in for 20 minutes while I go into the other room to watch television. Let's see how this goes.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 12:26 AM. Reason : .]

12/9/2005 12:23:03 AM

i thought this was a rocky iv type workout thread

12/9/2005 1:21:46 AM

Well, Major slept in his crate for the first time last night but he did not go willingly.
I told him to "go crate" because that is the command we have been using for car trips when he was crated. I put his chew bone in there with him...but you think I should feed him while he's in there too?? Also, he doesn't play with toys so I don't know what fun toys can be left with him when I leave because he doesn't like any.

We're going for a walk Thanks for all the help!

12/9/2005 11:23:10 AM

Lil Pig just gave some great advice.

And it is their safe place...I don't put Sabrina in her crate when i leave the house anymore b/c i can trust her out n about and she won't tear anything up or get into something she shouldn't. But she LOVES LOVES LOVES her crate. I leave the door open and she goes in there often to just get away and "be safe."

^yay! i'm glad it's working out for you so far

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 11:50 AM. Reason : ]

12/9/2005 11:39:46 AM

Quote :

"i thought this was a rocky iv type workout thread"

i thought it was about plyometrics training for basketball.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 11:49 AM. Reason : s]

12/9/2005 11:48:31 AM

put him down.

dogs that are abused can turn out to be great dogs. but some of them get way messed up because of it.

you can not form the appropriate dominance/social bond with a dog if he will bite you and not respect you.


secondly, what happens if you take him somewhere and he bites a person or another dog. The vet maybe? You parents over holiday break. You get married and have a kid?

12/9/2005 12:16:53 PM

^no. After being thrown across the room into a wall, I can understand why he bit me for trying to pull him out from under the bed.

The crate thing is working but he still needs practice. I left a bit ago and forgot to put him in the kitchen area and he pooped on the floor beside the puppy pad!! Argh. I loves him tho. Time for another thirty minute crating experience.

12/9/2005 3:28:38 PM

^ just a note, make sure you put at least 10 minutes between punishment time and crate time. you always want the dog to believe the crate is a safe place and never a punishment.

A great book to read, even if your dog is house broken is Dog Training For Dummies.

I knew alot about dog training but seriously this book really puts things into common sense.

Yes you should feed your dog in the crate because then the dog knows at least one good thing will always happen there. You can also leave water in there with the door open to get the dog used to going to the crate even when not ordered to it. I still feed my dog in her crate even when I'm not shutting her in just because its her routine.

A second thing is to make sure the dog knows you are always in charge. You can also do this with food. Always feed your dog last. This means make sure your dog sees you eat, and any other person or animal that is higher in the hierarchy then it before you feed it. This is a very easy way to establish dominance. If you give into your dog and feed it first, prior to yourself (I mean every day, not occasionally) then it will think it is the alpha dog and may think that mannors such as biting remain acceptable.

Reward your dog for going into the crate with a treat. After the first couple of weeks start giving treats every other time and so on. This way the behavior remains but the expectation of a treat does not.

12/9/2005 4:36:14 PM

when you're training him, I'd recommend acting like you're not around so that he doesn't think it's punishment. I don't know if you stay in the same room the crate is or not, so maybe you're already doing that. My dog loves her crate and doesn't have a problem going there when we leave the house (or when she just wants to relax or feel safe) because she's secure in the knowledge that we'll come back and let her out.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 4:39 PM. Reason : we have punished her using the crate, and she hated it because she knew it was punishment]

12/9/2005 4:37:34 PM

i'm not gonna read all these other posts, but let me say that you shouldn't be afraid to put him in his crate. They won't like it at first, but eventually they adjust and realize that is their safe spot. You should never go into the crate after them, etc when they are in. Sooner or later he will come around and not have a problem with spending time in his crate. When I first got my dog last year for about 2 months he whined like crazy when I crated him, but now all I have to do is tap the crate and he runs in happily.

12/9/2005 7:49:08 PM

Quote :

"^no. After being thrown across the room into a wall, I can understand why he bit me for trying to pull him out from under the bed."

...careful with that logic. If he's that scarred from past experiences with people, you need to be working with a professional dog trainer.

I'm so tired of seeing dogs dominate over their owners just because "he was abused when he was a puppy" That doesn't give the dog a free pass to bite and not tolerate your handling. Really no point in having a dog if they can't be a companion and respect you.

12/9/2005 8:01:09 PM

^Right, I understand that...but his safe spot is under the bed so I can see him feeling very threatened when I went in after him. I do not think it is acceptable that he bit me. I just think I did something to cause him to feel threatened. The crating is going okay. He has been moping around all day because he can't get under the bed. But he will learn his crate is his new bed.

12/9/2005 10:32:06 PM

Try puting a blanket over the crate. It may make him feel more secure.

12/9/2005 10:38:37 PM

what about crowbar training?

12/9/2005 10:40:46 PM

^^GREAT IDEA.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 10:53 PM. Reason : ^]

12/9/2005 10:40:50 PM

THX, i used to bite ppl too

12/9/2005 10:41:46 PM

First of all I want to congragulate (thank) pawprint on adopting a dog! What a rewarding experience! You are going to be the best thing in his life! Also don't listen to these other posts... this baby just needs a chance... someone to be understanding & patient. If someone abused me it would take a while to trust another person. Think of people who are bit by dogs and still scared... same logic the animal will not trust another human. Give it time and you know you will develop a loving bond. He will finally come to terms and understand that you are a good person. Just let him have his safety zone (*under bed) for a while. Let him adjust. It is just going to take time. Also are you having troubles potty training? If not, why even use the crate? (I know others will def. disagree). But I feel there is more of a companionnship and overall bond when the animal has free roam of the house and is a big part of the family. I have a golden retriever and a cat plus a golden foster dog and 2 foster cats and all my cuties have free roam. My house is their house and it all works out perfectly. I am not saying that all households can work this way but we all have an understanding with each other. It is unexplainable relationship & pawprint I hope you find this feeling oneday.

12/10/2005 3:15:13 AM

^ The problem with that for some people is that their animals don't (or didn't) behave when left alone in the house all day. We tried letting her have the roam of the house and we tried locking her in various room, which she did not take to at all. So, now whenever we leave she goes in the crate quite readily, though naturally she was reluctant at first.

12/10/2005 9:42:15 AM

^^ i had never crate trained a dog prior to this one that i have now. in fact she came mostly crate trained and I decided to keep it up for the time being as she was still a puppy and still potty training and chewing.

While i do not keep her in her crate when i am home i have found that it is WONDERFUL. I have a travel crate so whenever she is somewhere new she always has her 'safe' place and I can keep her routine as close to the same as possible with feeding and sleeping (as she still sleeps in it most of the time).

Dogs do seem to respond very well to crates. It goes back to their instincts and natural behaviors.

12/10/2005 9:47:16 AM

I'm not disagreeing with jenbncsu because Major is lucky to have been adopted by Cassie, BUT

Quote :

"this baby just needs a chance."

He's not a baby, and she's had him since June, so it's about time he begin to learn who's boss.

Quote :

"Just let him have his safety zone (*under bed) "

He's had his place but its time he have his safety zone somewhere he can't chew on things that could possibly hurt him.

Quote :

"Also are you having troubles potty training? If not, why even use the crate? "

He's completely potty trained, but sometimes she's just need him not to be right under her feet (i.e. if she's cooking and he's begging)

12/10/2005 10:56:30 AM

look if a dog bites you, beat the shit out of it and the dog will think twice about doing it again. it's all about gaining dominance.

12/10/2005 11:04:38 AM

i need pet help

my cat keeps trying to talk to me

i dont understand a word she is saying

what do i do

12/10/2005 1:08:27 PM

hahahhaha

12/10/2005 1:10:21 PM

maybe I misread but did the dog bite WHILE it was trying to eat a roach motel??? I didn't know if the dog was food agressive too maybe. There's lots of good advice in this thread about crate training. Dogs will learn the crate is their "den" and will spend alot of time in there. I use to keep my dog crated up anytime i left the house. She was so use to the routine that I could stand up and turn the TV off or start putting on my shoes and she would automatically go get in her crate. Now shes much older and i sort of leave the door open. She will still go in there to sleep and sort of hang out

12/10/2005 1:13:52 PM

Quote :

"Also don't listen to these other posts... this baby just needs a chance... someone to be understanding & patient. If someone abused me it would take a while to trust another person. Think of people who are bit by dogs and still scared... same logic the animal will not trust another human. Give it time and you know you will develop a loving bond. He will finally come to terms and understand that you are a good person. Just let him have his safety zone (*under bed) for a while. Let him adjust. It is just going to take time. Also are you having troubles potty training? If not, why even use the crate? (I know others will def. disagree). But I feel there is more of a companionnship and overall bond when the animal has free roam of the house and is a big part of the family. "

What a fucking moron. Dogs are NOT people so stop shoving human emotions on the dog's reaction. He's not going to "come to terms" and "understand" she a good person. What, is the dog going to buy her some flowers and send an apology? Of course not, it's a DOG. Dog's don't understand cutsie, feel good bullshit. They understand "pack" relationships and crave leadership from you. They want you to take charge. If you let him stay under the bed, he's not going to get any better and will probably get worse. In fact, the worst thing you can do is listen to jenbncsu and her bullshit. She hasn't the slightest clue.

a why crate train? Because it keeps them safe.

12/10/2005 1:44:19 PM

^I agree, he needs discipline, not coddling. If you just let him get away with negative behaviors it will get worse, he needs you to be a confident pack leader, not abusive, but dominant.

Also, crate training IS safe. Putting them in a crate when you leave for school/work is not going tomake them feel like less of a family member. Put a favorite blankie and some toys in there and let him sleep in it at night with the door open. Make the crate a positive "time to rest" experience. As for hiding under the bed, hauling him out bodily is probably not very positive, but I don't really know of a better way, perhaps bribe him out with treats or something so he knows it's safe and positive outside.

And as for crate toys, have you tried kongs? You can put peanut butter or other yummy things in there and they keep dog entertained for hours trying to get the treat out.

[Edited on December 10, 2005 at 2:38 PM. Reason : woof]

12/10/2005 2:32:30 PM

Just wondering..Are any of you crate trained? There seems to be quiet a bit of unnecessary aggression in this thread.
Chill out loves, opinions are like assholes.

Quote :

"maybe I misread but did the dog bite WHILE it was trying to eat a roach motel??? I didn't know if the dog was food agressive too maybe."

No, he was under the bed with his confiscated material...roach motel and empy cat food can. I took these items away and them attempted to remove him from under the bed so I could barricade it off and he bit me on the third attempt. I can take away food or treats whenever and he doesn't get upset. He hates being pulled out from small spaces and having a blanket pulled out from under him.

The crate training is going well. He stayed in the kitchen which I am away for long periods of time and in the crate at night and periodically through the day. He went in to his crate for treats and dinner yesterday. It seems to be working!

Thanks NCSUam0s...she's seen Major in action and knows he tries his best for power.

12/10/2005 6:02:20 PM

On a side note what does crate training have to do with potty training? You crate so they don't get hurt, not so they don't piss everywhere (well, sometimes...).

12/10/2005 10:53:30 PM

^dogs instinctively will not go to the bathroom where they sleep. So you get a crate that is not big enough that they can go to the bathroom and sleep away from it. Dogs will try very hard to hold it rather then have to sleep/lay in their urine or feces.
Also if they do have an accident, it limits the location to one place rather then carpet, kitchen, beds, couch etc when you are gone.

12/11/2005 9:43:16 PM

crates are widely used for housebreaking dogs...

thought that was common knowledge.

12/11/2005 9:54:45 PM