but goddamn I hate George W. Bush.

I like to reserve my opinion, because I like to consider all points of view.

But he will turn out to be the worst president ever. I'm calling it now.

10 years from now, refer to this post.

12/9/2005 5:32:58 AM

I think he will be looked at as the president who made it through the two worst disasters in US history while still keeping the economy growing. Also, in 10 years when we are out of Iraq and Iraq is stable enough to function, we will look back and you will have nothing to complain about.

12/9/2005 6:11:38 AM

did you not read the post?

the point is, he picked Iraq as an easy scapegoat for a Middle East target. All because Saddam and his pappy were at odds. I couldn't care less about 25 year old oil bickering.

If he really wanted to liberate a nation's people, he would've gone after the cocks he routinely rides in Saudi Arabia. Debate that. I fucking dare you.



shocking!

and I agree, he's had some shit on his plate. But face it, he went into the place his diddy hated under all conditions. And seriously, do you REALLY think that American consumerism would drop off because two buildings got dropped? That's the worst, most played out and blindly bought argument I've heard in 3 years.

btw, Iraq will never be stable enough to function, for reasons I need not get into at 6:15 am. But at the top of the list would be its history as a secular-ruled nation, and its cultural diversity, and even it's vague Muslim background. It won't be stable. And we only swelled the fire.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:21 AM. Reason : sd251]

12/9/2005 6:14:56 AM

Newsflash: He didnt want to liberate anyone, that was a selling point he used to further sell the war to the Left. He wanted to go in because he thought Sadaam has WMD's and had links to terrorism (incase you forgot). If I had a French flag in my gallery, would it be shocking that I was a left leaning homo? Probabaly not. But hey, your a liberal remember, its all about open-mindedness and not judging others until someone disagrees with you. Oh what a joke your ideology truly is.

12/9/2005 6:21:15 AM

hahaha there you go misinterpreting my ideology.

Look, I'll meet you for lunch this week if you really are interested in knowing what I'm about.

919-630-3246, Joel.

Quote :

"He didnt want to liberate anyone, that was a selling point he used to further sell the war to the Left"

NO FUCKING SHIT

Quote :

"He wanted to go in because he thought Sadaam has WMD's and had links to terrorism"

This wasn't a concern until brown people flew planes into big American buildings. It was just an easy way to garner support for ousting someone his diddy hated.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:25 AM. Reason : eh]

12/9/2005 6:23:22 AM

Quote :

"but goddamn I hate George W. Bush."

12/9/2005 6:26:53 AM

Quote :

"If I had a French flag in my gallery, would it be shocking that I was a left leaning homo?"

I'll grant you this, btw.

But everything else still stands. In the simplest of terms, Iraq was a mistake, for the reasons he set forth (and lied about).

12/9/2005 6:29:03 AM

well, claiming that the war is about a rivalry between his father and saddam is a marginal improvement over claiming that we only went there to get free gas (NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!1)

but holy shit its still fucking stupid. you realize that bush senior disagreed with W's invasion of iraq, right? you realize that W and his father are no longer on speaking terms, right? no, of course you don't. you don't know jack shit

but i guess this is what comes of a steady diet of daily show.

12/9/2005 6:36:22 AM

1. I haven't watched the Daily Show in about 7-8 months. When I did watch, the regularity for me was about once a week, at the most.

2. I did not know that W and his father were not on speaking terms, and that they disagree on the terms on invading Iraq. Please give me evidence.

Aside from all that, I'm trying to give W the benefit of a weak motive here.

GRAND TROLL, OLE BLOKE!

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:42 AM. Reason : eh2.t2]

12/9/2005 6:40:09 AM

oh ok i like how you ignored the fact that bush sr. disagreed with w's invasion of iraq

Quote :

"I did not know that W and his father were not on speaking terms. I don't see what this has to do with anything I posted, at all."

god help you.

Quote :

"GRAND TROLL, OLE BLOKE!"

how the fuck is it a troll. or are you just trolling me? asshole

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:46 AM. Reason : s]

12/9/2005 6:44:10 AM

PLEASE, READ.

I DID NOT IGNORE THE "FACT." I ASKED FOR EVIDENCE TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS "FACT."

PLEASE, READ.

I'd say blindly berating someone for gathering info from a Comedy Central program is trolling, sorry.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:47 AM. Reason : eh]

12/9/2005 6:46:22 AM

Quote :

"PLEASE, READ. I DID NOT IGNORE THE "FACT." I ASKED FOR EVIDENCE TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS "FACT." PLEASE, READ."

you know goddamn well that your original post completely ignored the point that bush sr. disagreed with the war.

you motherfucking troll. is this how you usually conduct yourself during a debate here? wait until someone has replied and then edit your original post in order to manufacture something to berate them with? this is beyond the pale.


[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:50 AM. Reason : s]

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:54 AM. Reason : s]

12/9/2005 6:49:05 AM

hahhaha i edited that way before I read your post.

no biggie. I'l let you twist your briefs around your crotch.

That's not important though. I edited because I realized I had erred on my own case. I'm willing to admit that.

You're still being a cod sack.

Look, you can antagonize me all night. I asked you a question, and all I expect is for you to stick to my original rhetoric at 6:45 am. . .no, seriously.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:51 AM. Reason : eh]

12/9/2005 6:50:44 AM

Quote :

"I'l let you twist your briefs around your crotch."

troll.

Quote :

"You're still being a cod sack."

troll. fuck you. i'm done with this shit.

but before I leave, I'll put things back on topic:

well, claiming that the war is about a rivalry between his father and saddam is a marginal improvement over claiming that we only went there to get free gas (NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!1)

but holy shit its still fucking stupid. you realize that bush senior disagreed with W's invasion of iraq, right? you realize that W and his father are no longer on speaking terms, right? no, of course you don't. you don't know jack shit

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:55 AM. Reason : s]

12/9/2005 6:53:42 AM

hhahahhahahahahahah


fantastic


I ask for evidence, and you turn sophomoric humor into trolling.


I don't even know what trolling is.




hahahahhahahahahaa all you basically did was cry

BYE!

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:56 AM. Reason : hahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahha]

Quote :

"you don't know jack shit "

AND WAITING ON THE GRAND ENLIGHTENMENT

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:57 AM. Reason : well played, sir]

so, putting things "back on topic" only involves insignificant drivel from a TWWer? I thought you were above that, seriously. You lose.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 6:58 AM. Reason : eh]

12/9/2005 6:55:18 AM

ahhh shit i'll take the bait.

PvtJoker @ 6:47am:

Quote :

"I'd say blindly berating someone for gathering info from a Comedy Central program is trolling, sorry."

PvtJoker @ 6:55am:

Quote :

"I don't even know what trolling is."

troll.

12/9/2005 6:57:36 AM

PHENOMENOL AVOIDANCE!

YOU SHOULD BE AN AMERICAN GLADIATOR!

POST AGAIN! PLEASE!

^but seriously. That's my take on trolling. If "trolling" has a denotative meaning, I'll eat my own ass.

Calling someone names based on blog rhetoric isn't quite up to par with making blind proclamations on where they get their news from.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:01 AM. Reason : Go now, son.]

12/9/2005 6:59:06 AM

sure. one more post.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22bush%27s+father%22+disagreed+war

go fuck yourself.

12/9/2005 7:00:38 AM

Quote :

"In 2003, Bush's father indicated to him that he disagreed with his son's invasion of Iraq. "

FOUND IT!! Thanks so much. I don't know where I'd be without COMMONDREAMS.ORG claiming that Sr. INDICATED that he disagreed with his son's decision to invade a country.

HEY, AT LEAST THIS IS A QUOTE STRAIGHT FROM GEORGE, SR, HIMSELF


OH WAIT

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:09 AM. Reason : nice find, salisburyboy]

12/9/2005 7:04:27 AM

TELL ME MORE HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

I need to see where they aren't on speaking terms, as well. It's quite the grand claim.

12/9/2005 7:08:14 AM

Well, this has been discussed numerous times in quite credible publications. I don't have Lexis Nexis and I don't want to spend hours searching for it. If you'd been paying close attention, though, you'd also have heard about the chasm of distrust and ill-will between members of father and son's circles of influence.

but anyway, all that aside, now that i've provided my evidence - could you please point us to the evidence you're using to justify the statement that bush invaded iraq to settle a grudge between saddam and his father?

12/9/2005 7:08:44 AM

12/9/2005 7:09:51 AM

Holy shit you guys just got fucked up.

Read thread title.

12/9/2005 7:10:23 AM

Quote :

"If you'd been paying close attention, though, you'd also have heard about the chasm of distrust and ill-will between members of father and son's circles of influence"

I have vaguely heard this. No shit, I haven't paid much attention to the ordeal (Iraq) in past months, because it only sickens me to think about it. I'm not gonna lie.

Quote :

"but anyway, all that aside, now that i've provided my evidence "

a commondreams.org feature claiming an indication of dissention is far from evidence.

Quote :

"could you please point us to the evidence you're using to justify the statement that bush invaded iraq to settle a grudge between saddam and his father? "

I have no evidence. Like I said, this theoretical claim is rooted in giving the man the benefit of the doubt.

12/9/2005 7:12:27 AM

PvtJoker - this is the last google search i'm going to do for you. I could understand if the search needed complex terms and uncommon words, but seriously.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bush+rift+father+son

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:12 AM. Reason : s]

12/9/2005 7:12:43 AM

Well, hey, you've done it. That's all I was asking for. You can scroll up and see that.

But a fundamental question should be asked... just because his father disagreed with his actions. . does this ultimately deny the possiblity that W had a personal vendetta for wanting Saddam taken out?

After all, W PUBLICLY said once, "This is a guy who tried to kill my father!"

Just a thought.

.....sons do a lot to try to appease their fathers, without considering their father's sentiments in the first place. it just happens sometimes.










and seriously, this is ALL rooted in me trying to qualify an invasion that I never agreed with in the first place.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:18 AM. Reason : we probably fundamentally agree.]

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:20 AM. Reason : eh23426]

12/9/2005 7:17:16 AM

Quote :

"After all, W PUBLICLY said once, "This is a guy who tried to kill my father!" "

now you sound like salisbot "proving" that jimmy swaggart is the Illiad's emissary of doom.

12/9/2005 7:19:37 AM

there's a video for that, actually.

no way I'm trying to find a 2-year old video

Actually, I think it was "This is a guy who tried to have my father killed"

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:21 AM. Reason : somethin]

some speech, in some podunk town.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:21 AM. Reason : eh2t62323c]

12/9/2005 7:20:33 AM

yes, and salisbot has a picture of jimmy swaggart throwing the "bears claw" to all his illiad homies out there.

12/9/2005 7:23:50 AM

hahah exactly

g'nite kids

but seriously, I know the video exists. and it's not edited. I don't give a quarter duck shit if you see it or not.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 7:27 AM. Reason : eh2.5/c.alr?#@]

12/9/2005 7:25:51 AM

There the man leaves.

After having conquered this entire thread.

12/9/2005 7:27:16 AM

It is heart-warming to see two people fall head-over-heals for each other on the internet

12/9/2005 10:42:14 AM

i thought id seen that video on one of the comedy shows. im not saying it isnt edited or anything, but im pretty sure ive seen the clip he's talking about.

12/9/2005 10:49:03 AM

i'm not denying that bush made a casual remark about saddam trying to kill his father

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 10:51 AM. Reason : s]

12/9/2005 10:51:45 AM

but you did tap dance around admitting your "credible source" for the bush and son rift was a Drudge float...

nicely done, btw.

12/9/2005 11:37:22 AM

i don't remember reading about that on drudge, although i certainly may have done so. sounds like something he would post.

12/9/2005 11:45:22 AM

that's where i read it

12/9/2005 11:47:27 AM

http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/search.htm?searchFor=bush+father

12/9/2005 11:51:57 AM

Quote :

"I think he will be looked at as the president who made it through the two worst disasters in US history"

Youre talking about FDR, right?

12/9/2005 12:36:23 PM

Quote :

"If he really wanted to liberate a nation's people, he would've gone after the cocks he routinely rides in Saudi Arabia."

Why? People are oppressed in lots of countries around the world. We can't take them all on simultaneously. As it happens, there were a great many reasons that Iraq was a much more feasible target than North Korea or Saudi Arabia, the latter of which would have made our current international situation look downright friendly.

12/9/2005 12:40:53 PM

12/9/2005 12:46:40 PM

^^ I'm sure you have a Wikipedia article to back that up.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 12:51 PM. Reason : fuck]

12/9/2005 12:51:34 PM

Jesus Christ, dude, it was the first set of numbers I came across, do you expect me to verify it seven ways to Sunday for the sake of the fucking Soap Box?

At least I gave a source for my figures, unlike some arrogant Russian bastards I could name.

12/9/2005 12:54:26 PM

Quote :

"Well, this has been discussed numerous times in quite credible publications. I don't have Lexis Nexis and I don't want to spend hours searching for it. If you'd been paying close attention, though, you'd also have heard about the chasm of distrust and ill-will between members of father and son's circles of influence."

That's right. The country cannot agree on whether or not we're making progress or fucked beyond belief in Iraq based on the same set of facts, but we can all trust your interpretation of how inner circles operate or what their moods are.

Quote :

"At least I gave a source for my figures, unlike some arrogant Russian bastards I could name."

Wikipedia is a "source"? Have you already marched on the brickyard today?

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 12:57 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2005 12:56:01 PM

Well, it's a place that the numbers came from other than my own imagination, so it's got you edged out just a little.

12/9/2005 12:59:24 PM

Go march, stupid moron.

12/9/2005 1:14:10 PM

I shall try to employ your strategy some time:

1) Claim opponent's source is invalid.
2) Offer own figures with no source, expect them to be taken as gospel.
3) Hurl insults
4) ...
5) Profit

12/9/2005 1:38:06 PM

Quote :

"keeping the economy growing"

can I start laughing now? i mean, if you don't grow the economy following a huge tech bust, you are pretty fucked up...

12/9/2005 3:23:37 PM

uhhh... you say that as though things couldn't have gotten worse after a normal market correction

12/9/2005 3:36:01 PM

oh, they could've gotten worse, but that would have taken massive stupidity. we're talkin stupidity that would make someone actually defend "that depends on what your definition of the word 'is' is."

12/9/2005 3:50:16 PM