I say no.

12/12/2005 12:25:11 AM

Quote :

"An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively."

12/12/2005 12:26:43 AM

poker is so much NOT A SPORT, that this should be in chit chat

12/12/2005 12:26:51 AM

they show poker on ESPN... i think it's a valid discussion.

12/12/2005 12:28:17 AM

Is XXXX a sport threads always have some useful outcome.


wait, no they dont.

12/12/2005 12:28:33 AM

ENTERTAINMENT and sports programming network

12/12/2005 12:31:36 AM

the reason i made this thread is that i was discussing this at jax a few minutes ago with several of my friends. they all like to play poker, and they were trying to convince me it's a sport. by their logic (that sports didn't have to focus around physical action) video games and the like could be considered sports.

12/12/2005 12:39:02 AM

NO ONE FUCKING CARES ABOUT YOUR ASININE DRUNKEN DISCUSSIONS

12/12/2005 12:40:47 AM

i guess in that case, tying my shoes and zipping my jacket are sports too

12/12/2005 12:42:27 AM

Quote :

"The Poker Critic Is Poker a Sport? © James Brydon There’s been a lot of debate lately on the subject of whether poker should be considered a sport. Our very site, pokerfan.com has posted a number of news articles about it, including one giving the various opinions of players, journalists and others in the media. Meanwhile, in a September 2005 article, the founder and CEO of the World Poker Tour, Steve Lipscomb, is credited with considering poker as “incontestably a sport, requiring endurance, a top athlete’s competitive edge and mental agility.” He also suggested that poker have its own version of the Olympic Games. (Let’s leave that aside for the moment.) One of my fellow columnists, Justin Baxter, has even written about analogies between poker and sports, including having “pre-shot routines” and “sports psychologists.” (Check it out!) But the question remains: should poker be categorized as a sport? A common adage has been, “If you don’t sweat, it’s not a sport.” But surely there are sports out there in which you don’t necessarily sweat. Darts and pool come to mind, which incidentally are, like poker, other “pub night” activities. But the question that matters, especially when it comes to coverage of poker, is really whether poker as a “professional” endeavour, not just a recreational pastime, should be considered a sport. People in the media are somewhat divided. The always tongue-in-cheek Sports Illustrated columnist Rick Reilly wrote the following in October about ESPN covering poker: "Where is the thrill in watching guys with 300 cholesterol levels play cards and rattle their chip stacks 1,000 different ways? What`s ESPN going to put on next, the World Hairline-Receding Championships?” Yet his own magazine has covered poker before that and since, with a sub-cover story in June. Furthermore, they have a regular reporter for SI.com who covers poker and posted daily updates during the WSOP Main Event in June. Recently, Fox SportsNet’s “Beyond the Glory” ran a piece on Poker Legends, and Rogers Sportsnet in Canada ran a piece about the World Poker Tour in an episode of the “Business of Sports.” So all the main sports networks are not just airing poker tournaments, but giving it as much play as if it were as much of a sport as the other ones. And what do the players have to say on the topic? During the recently televised “Caribbean Poker Classic,” one final table player interviewed said, “I feel more beat up playing a day of poker than I do playing a round of golf. It’s that difficult. “Physically speaking, after playing 12 hours of poker, I feel like I’ve been hit with a baseball bat over the head. So you have to be in good shape mentally and physically to play this game. Trust me.” Anyone who’s played in a long tournament can certainly relate to that. Sitting in your seat, physically playing with the chips, trying to read other people’s tells, having to make the same kinds of tough mental decisions that baseball and football players have to make as they wait for the next pitch or the next play. It wears on you, and then it affects how you play, and can lead to you making poor decisions. “Poker is a sport,” added the color commentator. “You need to be physically and mentally fit to play this game, especially with all the time you’re going to be doing if you’re going to play the tour.” Take it from a professional tour player himself, Daniel Negreanu. He told me in an interview that "professional athletes and poker players are very similar in terms of their travel and work schedules, competitive spirit and playing at high stakes." Even if poker isn’t as physically intense as say football or basketball or hockey, not all sports are. But they do involve similar types of competitive skills to play, and similar types of competitive interests for the viewer. And with the advent of things like the Professional Poker Tour and weekly rankings, you could certainly have coverage on the web and in the newspaper of event winners, statistics and standings. So why do people hesitate about considering poker worth covering as a sport? Yes, I suppose it doesn’t involve as much physical activity as a traditional sport. But on some days a baseball player in left field may do less! Yes, outfielders and other athletes still need to be in good shape. But if you think that a player who is in good shape doesn’t have an advantage at the poker table, you’re missing something. There was a time when people tried to lobby to get the “sport” of chess into the Olympics – I’m sure there are still proponents of that now. For most people, that was considered ridiculous. Chess was not a sport, they would say. Well, I’m sure there are many who think the same thing about poker. But I argue that there’s a difference. You can play a game of chess on a computer without involving any of your physical capacities and in no way would it affect the nature of the game. In fact, some people play a game of chess by sending their subsequent moves to each other by email, making the game played over the course of a few days. Even in a game of live chess, you could get someone else to physically move the pieces for you, and it would still be you playing the game. However, in live poker you have to be physically at the table during play of your hand, because reading people’s tells (the way players look, play with their chips, and put chips into the pot) is an integral part of the game. You can’t get someone else to do that for you without betraying part of the nature of the game. It’s like reading defenses in football. It may only involve your eyes, but it’s an integral physical part of the game. Now, am I saying that poker should be in the Olympics? No, but in my next article I will draw a parallel between poker and a very popular sport that is also not featured in the Olympics. Returning to my original question of whether poker should be categorized as a sport, I say yes. And it should receive the same kind of coverage it has been lately, just like any other sport. I say to the networks: hold nothing back. ESPN, Fox SportsNet, Rogers Sportsnet, Sports Illustrated: keep the coverage coming. You’re doing a great job. "

12/12/2005 1:00:41 AM

Quote :

"A common adage has been, “If you don’t sweat, it’s not a sport.” But surely there are sports out there in which you don’t necessarily sweat. Darts and pool come to mind, which incidentally are, like poker, other “pub night” activities."

the adage is good, and darts and pool arent sports.

12/12/2005 1:41:22 AM

i don't sweat when i play golf. golf is a sport.

and why aren't darts and pool sports?
they fit the definition.

12/12/2005 1:45:49 AM

because the definition is flawed.

12/12/2005 1:48:17 AM

that's the definition the dicitonary gave.

are you saying your own personal definition is better?

12/12/2005 1:49:20 AM

oh man

we've discussed this before

it's silly

12/12/2005 1:50:27 AM

perhaps

the fact that there's a debate suggests the definition is flawed.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 1:52 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2005 1:51:09 AM

fire up my "things flying through the air" clause

12/12/2005 1:53:17 AM

are you implying that a sport has to have something flying through the air?

12/12/2005 1:56:43 AM

yeah- me and tracer had this debate a few months ago

one of the angles i took involved objects flying through air

problem was modifying that to not include bowling but including hockey

12/12/2005 1:59:41 AM

Ive always used 3 criteria to define a sport:
1: must have and use atheletic ability
2: outcome must not be subjective (judges cannot be used to determine a score)
3: some sort of physical defense to prevent the other person/team from scoring

12/12/2005 2:00:45 AM

there's also my clause about sports not requiring tables. the lone sticking point of course is ping pong, which i dont consider a sport but some would. i have thus created a sub-category for ping pong that rides the line between game and sport. it is known as gart, and it will also include bowling.

^thats pretty much my requirements as well.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 2:02 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2005 2:01:55 AM

Quote :

"2: outcome must not be subjective (judges cannot be used to determine a score)"

the only prob i have with that one is blown calls by refs, but i see what you're saying (ie, figure skating = not a sport)

12/12/2005 2:02:18 AM

agreed, especially with number 2. figure skating is not a sport

they are more officiating the game rather than deciding it

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 2:03 AM. Reason : . ]

12/12/2005 2:02:51 AM

but a subjective call by a ref can cost a team a season

12/12/2005 2:08:40 AM

yea but if you played well enough, one call isnt going to cost you a game.

12/12/2005 2:10:06 AM

its still not a "subjective" decision. there are rules guiding the decision and governing the outcome. unlike say figure skating where a fall could cost someone anywhere from .2-.8 points depending on the judge's mood.

also, in sports there is always a "right" decision, if the ref didn't see the fumble, it either happened or it didn't there is a correct decision whether or not with replay the ref gets it doesn't change. in figure skating, sure the girl fell but there is no way to know how the score will reflect it.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 2:16 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2005 2:14:48 AM

Quote :

"yeah- me and tracer had this debate a few months ago one of the angles i took involved objects flying through air problem was modifying that to not include bowling but including hockey"

what about wrestling?

12/12/2005 2:15:09 AM

not really a good definition, i'd drop it. cif's was much, much better.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 2:17 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2005 2:17:22 AM

^^ bodies, chairs

12/12/2005 2:47:18 AM

what about track events? swimming? etc?

12/12/2005 10:06:17 AM

Quote :

"no"

12/12/2005 10:26:37 AM

i play poker and "NO"

12/12/2005 10:39:20 AM

Quote :

"3: some sort of physical defense to prevent the other person/team from scoring"

So Track and Field is not a sport now?

12/12/2005 10:43:59 AM

or golf for that matter

12/12/2005 12:51:59 PM

This should clear things up

12/12/2005 12:57:35 PM

the P in ESPN is for poker it seems

12/12/2005 12:58:55 PM

Track and Field, Swimming, Cheerleading, etc. are competitions, not a sport.

12/12/2005 1:54:54 PM

TRACK AND FIELD is not a sport? Wasn't the marathon one of the first Olympic events ever? Are you saying that one of the founding events of the Olympics isn't a sport?

I think a sport is any event/game/competition (even though that word was just dirtied) in which physical ability is required. There's no physical ability to be mastered when playing poker. Same with chess and checkers. Cheerleading IS a sport (when competing against others) because there are particular physical skills required.

12/12/2005 2:03:15 PM

HAHAHAHA you are shitting me.


you are saying that the oldest sport EVER (running) isn't a sport???
wow.

12/12/2005 2:03:27 PM

Blackjack, solitaire, freecell, goldfish, uno, building castles all card games. Poker is a card game, not a sport.

12/12/2005 2:09:04 PM

Yes, imo, running is not a sport. No physical defense is applied to runners by the other competitors so it doesn't fit my criteria.

12/12/2005 2:28:42 PM

this thread: has it been done before? yes

12/12/2005 3:26:38 PM

Quote :

"Yes, imo, running is not a sport. No physical defense is applied to runners by the other competitors so it doesn't fit my criteria."

clearly your criteria are wrong.

12/12/2005 4:52:28 PM

fuck no

12/12/2005 7:49:18 PM

if poker is a sport so is scrabble, and bingo


and it gets worse from there


If you can drink beer and smoke a cigarette during a "game" then its probably not a "sport"

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2005 8:16:19 PM

^^^^^So golf not a sport either? Basically saying no extreme sports are sports either?

12/12/2005 9:00:38 PM

sport is any competition that is physical in nature

thats pretty much sums it up

12/12/2005 9:04:42 PM

^What about tons of physical skill and years of very hard work to get to that level of physical skill, but not necessarily a lot of physical exertion in the activity?
Once again I'm referring to golf.

12/12/2005 9:06:54 PM

poker is a sport

ballroom dancing, diving, ice skating, cheerleading, gynmastics, and other objectively judged competitions are not

12/12/2005 9:16:54 PM

what golf is a physical activity. its definitely a sport

12/12/2005 9:30:47 PM