it actually looks like a jumpshot and not like he's trying to rock somebody in their face and stab their brain with their nosebone

1/11/2006 11:51:53 AM

outside of 15 feet, hodge had about the worst jumper in college basketball

so that isnt saying a whole lot

1/11/2006 11:53:59 AM

Grant shoots on his way down

1/11/2006 11:54:36 AM

and not only was Hodge's jumper bad, but it wasnt good mechanics

^when he has defensive pressure and he has to...not on wide open shots

1/11/2006 11:54:37 AM

^yes he does

EVERY time he shoots it, open or not, he shoots it on his way down

1/11/2006 12:12:00 PM

Gavin can shoot, which is great

but he needs to learn not to force it inside. If you penetrate and get double-teamed, pass it out.

1/11/2006 12:17:15 PM

From the other thread...

Gavin Grant
	FG%	FT%	3pt%	PtsPerShot
Fr	.410	.596	.265	1.15
So	.442	.759	.222	1.44

Julius Hodge
	FG%	FT%	3pt%	PtsPerShot
Fr	.442	.742	.347	1.35
So	.446 	.813 	.336 	1.48
Jr	.507 	.828 	.361 	1.51
Sr	.493 	.668 	.255 	1.44

1/11/2006 1:08:44 PM

Those FG%s are crazy misleading

Hodge's FG% is higher because of all his layups...I'm talking about Grant's jump shot...if Grant took it to the basket as much as Hodge and shot jumpers as rarely as Hodge, Grant would be shooting 55%

1/11/2006 1:25:40 PM

^yep

1/11/2006 1:57:33 PM

unfortunately grant is an idiot

hence, my thread

1/11/2006 2:10:41 PM

Quote :

"if Grant took it to the basket as much as Hodge and shot jumpers as rarely as Hodge, Grant would be shooting 55%"

ok so tell me this. if the guy has the potential to change a few things and wind up shooting 55% instead of 41%, why the hell doesn't he do it?

who cares if it's a jumpshot or a layup?

1/11/2006 2:21:28 PM

all im saying is hodge did NOT hit 50% of his jumpshots...i was guessing at grant's 55 number but it was obvious last year that hodge was at his best when he would take it to the hoop, not settle for a jumper...so im saying that hodge's FG% numbers are misleading

hodge just never got his shot back after he put on muscle...everybody told him to get bigger, put on muscle, add weight...but he never got his shot back

1/11/2006 2:33:36 PM

i'm not sure of the point of this thread

1/11/2006 2:35:37 PM

i think grant is a better jump shooter than Hodge, which isnt necessarily saying a lot

but some of us expect Grant to try and take over Hodge's role of team leader / crunch time go-to guy

but also he appears to have better mechanics...and i paraphrased a line from Shook Ones

1/11/2006 2:37:07 PM

i def didnt expect that

i acutally expected bethel to take that role this yr but it looks like atsur has been the one to step up.

1/11/2006 2:39:28 PM

^^oh, in that case, i think atsur is a better 3-point shooter than cedric simmons

1/11/2006 2:41:33 PM

^^well not necessarily this year

i think a lot of us expected it eventually from him during last year...plus hodge basically convinced him to come to state, and he seemed to be the most PHYSICALLY similar to Jules

yeah Atsur is doing his thing this year

^watch out, msb2ncsu might disagree with you if Simmons is 2/3 from 3 and Atsur is 13/20

1/11/2006 2:41:54 PM

Quote :

"but he needs to learn not to force it inside"

take lessons from Kobe

1/11/2006 2:45:00 PM

but if that bitch screams rape
like mike tyson, im upstate

1/11/2006 2:46:02 PM

well i def agree that he would sorta fill Hodge's ROLE, but not his shoes. They are def similar in that they are both all-around players in that they get pts, rebs and assists and they def have similar body types. i think the brain is the major diff b/w the two. I think, b/c of these similarities, some wishful thinkers were hoping he would be the second coming w/out stopping to think that Hodge is a rare player and he was rated so high coming out of HS for a reason. As for me, i just give him the Jay Davis Wish, just please be solid and dont make stupid mistakes. B/c all that really seems missing is the bball brain, I still think that he can make strides and become much improved, hopefully by the end of the season but at least by before he leaves here.

1/11/2006 2:50:05 PM

Quote :

"Those FG%s are crazy misleading Hodge's FG% is higher because of all his layups...I'm talking about Grant's jump shot...if Grant took it to the basket as much as Hodge and shot jumpers as rarely as Hodge, Grant would be shooting 55%"

What, and you think Grant is not? Hell, last night he took 4 shots: 3 layups and 1 jumper from mid range (which he missed). He made 2 layups and was fouled on another. It was pretty much the same in teh Carolina game too. Grant gets a lot of putbacks off rebounds and other around the basket shots. He has not been anything like the pull-up jumper player you seem to be indicating. Also, you make it sound like Hodge had gimmes all day... he was double teamed on pretty much every damn layup or shot in the lane (something Grant does not have to contend with). To say that Grant has shown better shooting skills or flat out is a better shooter than Hodge is just nonsense.

1/11/2006 3:29:01 PM

Grant is REAL GOOD from about 2 feet away.

1/11/2006 3:55:54 PM

i'd still rather have grant shooting 10 midrange jumpers in a game than hodge, all coverage and defense being equal

1/11/2006 4:47:45 PM

no fucking way, Grant cant hit shit. I dont care how ugly Hodge's shot was shot for shot he'll bury gavin

1/11/2006 4:49:32 PM

that may be true if you can somehow erase from your mind all of hodge's jumpshots and free throws from last year

if we were talking about hodge as a FR or SO this wouldnt be an issue....here do this...do a message topic search for threads about hodge's poor shooting last year...im sure there will be dozens of threads

1/11/2006 4:52:37 PM

For the thrid time, Tree... we all know that Hodge changed his shot mechanic his final year to improve his NBA stock. A different shot is going to take some getting used to and not net you the same results you got in the past. Hell, Julius Hodge's worst stats in each category are still better than most of Gavin's. Last year Hodge was responsible for everything. It was quite literally a permanent double team on him on top of his change in shot technique. Even then his numbers are, in essence, better than Grant. Your argument is fucking spent.

1/11/2006 5:07:35 PM

^What in the god damn fuck are you trying to say? That Hodge had a good jumper? He was a terrible shooter outside of 5 feet. All the statistics in the world won't change that.

The correct answer to this thread is, they both suck at shooting jumpers. Grant's shot is prettier, but its just as inaccurate.

1/11/2006 6:34:03 PM

msb2ncsu is correct.

^riiiight, hodge was a terrible shooter outside of 5 feet but he still shot better than grant. How about you hodge haters post actual facts?

I wonder if the miniscule minds in this thread can understand that hodge shot better with his crappy form than grant does with his slightly less crappy form.

1/11/2006 6:41:30 PM

ok, time to shut you idiots up.

cbs sportsline has shot charts for the last couple of games:
http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/teams/schedule/NCST

here are the summaries of shots made for grant:

NH
Inside - 2
Outside - 0
Missed Out - 0

GW
Inside - 1
Outside - 1
Missed Out - 0

UNCG
Inside - 0
Outside - 1
Missed Out - 3

UNC
Inside - 1
Outside - 0
Missed Out - 2
Missed Inside - 2

BC
Inside - 1
Outside - 1
Missed Outside - 4
Missed Inside - 2

so he is
- 37.5% of grant's shots are from the outside
- Of that percentage, grant makes 25% of his outside shots (these aren't even 3s! mid range and long range jumpers)
- he makes 55.5% of his inside shots

I think we can shutup about how grant makes so much more outside shots than hodge.


[Edited on January 11, 2006 at 7:13 PM. Reason : kl;]

1/11/2006 7:00:41 PM

Nice edit. Now show us Hodge's fg% on jumpshots. I can guarantee you that he has shot below 25% on his midrange jumpers for several stretches.



[Edited on January 11, 2006 at 7:15 PM. Reason : edit]

1/11/2006 7:13:19 PM

^please don't tell me you are talking about who has the better looking jumpshot rather than who has the most effective jumpshot



The burden of proof is on you, moron. Your guarantee means about as much as the shit in my toilet.

[Edited on January 11, 2006 at 7:17 PM. Reason : sdf]

1/11/2006 7:15:41 PM

Neither has an effective jumpshot. I don't know how you can even argue that. Hodge rarely took jumpshots, but when he did he usually bricked them.

1/11/2006 7:17:37 PM

^The burden of proof is on you, moron. Your guarantee means about as much as the shit in my toilet.

1/11/2006 7:19:43 PM

how quickly everyone forgets how bad hodge's shot was last year

1/11/2006 7:53:06 PM

That's because our head is loaded with realizations that you haven't a fucking clue what you are talking about.

1/11/2006 9:54:50 PM

Quote :

"EVERY time he shoots it, open or not, he shoots it on his way down"

thats bullshit...i watched the BC game again tonight...he only shoots on his way down when he is floating towards the basket or otherwise trying to adjust his shot...the corner three he had was perfect top of jump release

msb i think its just your head...it appears that rwoody, DaveOT, jwb9984 may agree with me...its a good discussion if you ask me

and please bear in mind before you post some more fg% statistics, the title of the thread contains the word "jumper" implying jump shot, it says nothing about field goal percentage...nobody in their right mind would argue who is a more efficient or effective scorer...but hell look at hodge's shooting percentage his senior year...all his numbers are down, especially ft% and 3pt%...and theres a reason his season high in minutes for the nuggest this year is 8 and he rarely plays...hodge used to have a shot but he hasnt had a consistent one lately...grant would hit more open midrange jumpers AND 3's

1/11/2006 11:41:57 PM

This is great. you try to pass off guesses by a bunch of clowns as evidence and are too lazy and too stupid to come with actual evidence to back up your claim. you need to get back to baking cookies in the kitchen and leave the logical reasoning to the men.

1/11/2006 11:50:17 PM

why dont you post some of hodge's breakdown shooting stats instead of acting like you've won the game at halftime

nobody in their right mind would say hodge finished his college career with a consistent jump shot

1/11/2006 11:52:47 PM

Quote :

"The burden of proof is on you, moron."

I already held your hand and got you to the mark you need to beat -- iow, show that hodge shot WORSE than 25% from the field.


Repeating an unsubstantiated claim is not an argument, woman.

1/11/2006 11:54:48 PM

so because i dont know where to find game by game shot breakdowns of hodge's senior year, you claim that half the evidence tells the whole story? you arent substantiating much of shit yourself except giving a crass breakdown of 5 games this season...you're proving absolutely nothing whatsoever

its like your professor assigned you a compare and contrast assignment of Hodge and Grant and you turned in a brief summary of Grant

its like I claimed that Marcus Vick was a more consistent passer than Michael and you posted a list of Michael's total offensive yards

1/11/2006 11:59:19 PM

Quote :

"Repeating an unsubstantiated claim is not an argument, woman."

P.S. Because I have the amazing ability to do math, julius would have had to shoot 60% of his baskets inside at a 70% FG percentage in order to finish at 50% fg for the year AND shoot worse than 25% from the field. Women like you apparently think that is a reasonable account of what went down last year.

PPS. All the play by plays are here. Get to work: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/gamelog?playerId=5128&year=2005


[Edited on January 12, 2006 at 12:13 AM. Reason : This isnt even accounting for how julius faced tougher defense]

1/12/2006 12:09:23 AM

Quote :

"julius would have had to score 60% of his baskets off of layups at a 70% FG percentage"

hey you're close...but more like 63% at 58%...heres a representative sample of how Hodge performed in his last/most recent 5 games for the Pack

WISC
Made Inside - 4
Made Outside - 0
Missed Inside - 9
Missed Outside - 5

UCONN
Made Inside - 3
Made Outside - 1
Missed Inside - 4
Missed Outside - 2

CHARLOTTE
Made Inside - 8
Made Outside - 0
Missed Inside - 0
Missed Outside - 4

DUKE
Made Inside - 3
Made Outside - 1
Missed Inside - 3
Missed Outside - 4

WAKE FOREST
Made Inside - 5
Made Outside - 4
Missed Inside - 3
Missed Outside - 2

63 shots total
40 inside shots taken (63% of total shots taken were inside shots)
23 jumpshots taken (37% of total shots taken were midrange/outside jumpshots)

29/63 total = 46% total field goal completition percentage
23/40 from inside = 58% of inside shots made
6/23 from outside = 26% of midrange/outside shots made

- Hodge shot almost twice as many layup/closerange shots as he did jumpers/longrange
- His FG% was much better with layups and dunks and inside shots than it was with jumpshots, as any State fan already knows
- His best performance of the 5 games, Wake Forest, he shot 60%...he had testicular motivation to shoot extra well
- Now go get your fucking shinebox

1/12/2006 12:47:32 AM

hahaha, so your conclusion is.....



Julius hodge is a better jump shooter than gavin grant, not even accounting for the fact that hodge was the focal point of the opponents defense?


Thank you for proving what people with brains already knew

1/12/2006 12:51:14 AM

theres your stats, go suck a cock until you can validate your claim AT ALL...and i guess you could claim hodge shot 1% better than grant during the 5 games each of us chose to cite...of course any idiot knows thats not perfect statistics

everybody else already knew hodge didnt have a jumper his senior season...and if you want to go off hodge's earlier seasons you might as well go off grant's high school numbers...you can post some more stats if you want but anybody who actually watched the pack play last year knows jules couldnt shoot

1/12/2006 12:52:29 AM

Quote :

" hahaha, so your conclusion is..... Julius hodge is a better jump shooter than gavin grant "

1/12/2006 12:53:39 AM

you have a habit of re-posting your own nonsense instead of thinking of a single thing logically

Quote :

"anybody who actually watched the pack play last year knows jules couldnt shoot"

1/12/2006 12:55:20 AM

^ha, you posted that after the fact. in case you forgot your own damn argument, lets review:

msb2ncsu: Grant is not a better shooter than Hodge.

TreeTwista10: i think grant is a better jump shooter than Hodge,

skokiaan: hold up there, bucko. let's see some evidence

TreeTwista10: julius hodge shot better from the field last year than grant has this year

skokiaan: own up, faggot

TreeTwista10: wahwahwahwa I proved myself wrong after actually examining the evidence, so I am going to change my argument. hodge still sucked!


[Edited on January 12, 2006 at 1:02 AM. Reason : sdfdf]

1/12/2006 1:01:30 AM

hodge shot 26% on jumpshots during those 5 games

grant shot 25% on jumpshots during your 5 games

oh man that sure is a whopping difference in percentages...gosh your claim is overwhelmingly evident...oh man you should definitely feel confident about the accuracy of your claim

now go get your fucking shinebox

Quote :

"show that hodge shot WORSE than 25% from the field"

I showed he shot 26% during a small sample of games...is that so far off from your request that you completely dismiss the numbers? or maybe you can admit to yourself at least, even if you dont concede to anyone in this thread, that hodge is not a better shooter than grant by any type of slightly significant margin at all, just based on these games we cited

1/12/2006 1:03:48 AM

^
So you admit that you were wrong. Good, since the conclusion we agree upon is just a starting point for showing how inferior of a shooter grant is. Grant shoots more poorly...

Quote :

"not even accounting for the fact that hodge was the focal point of the opponents defense?"

I'll thank msb2ncsu for making this point from the start.

[Edited on January 12, 2006 at 1:09 AM. Reason : dsf]

1/12/2006 1:08:35 AM

Quote :

"What, and you think Grant is not? Hell, last night he took 4 shots: 3 layups and 1 jumper from mid range (which he missed). He made 2 layups and was fouled on another."

no actually he was 2/3, including 1/1 from behind the arc http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/gamelog?playerId=22346

Quote :

"Last year Hodge was responsible for everything. It was quite literally a permanent double team on him on top of his change in shot technique. Even then his numbers are, in essence, better than Grant."

again, you incorrectly assume im taking away from hodge as a scorer or leader by bringing up things like the defense played on him...sure he was double teamed plenty...IN THE PAINT...he was dared to take outside shots because every defense in the acc knew he couldnt hit them. Your argument is fucking spent. And plus you act like defenses just allow Grant to shoot without defense since he isnt Hodge...defenses guard all players on the perimeter for state except maybe ced simmons...on the perimeter hodge probably got LOOSER coverage than grant does because, unlike you, ACC coaches and defenses know grant is a better shooter than hodge when he finished his career at State

Quote :

"hodge shot better with his crappy form than grant does with his slightly less crappy form"

oh great you agree with my original post "it actually looks like a jumpshot"...thanks for playing

btw most people in this thread agree that neither really has a good jumpshot...my opinion is still i'd rather have grant shooting open 18 footers than hodge...let hodge drive to the hole...thats his tendency anyway

prawnstar won long ago anyway:

Quote :

"Hodge rarely took jumpshots, but when he did he usually bricked them"

1/12/2006 1:20:14 AM