maybe i dont "get it"

but being from florida, i seriously dont get why so many of you think a fucking state lottery is going to bring down civilization.

please to look at all the states around you. notice that noone's collapsing over a lottery. and nc wasnt exactly kicking ass without one.

2/16/2006 12:53:57 PM

and don't forget that north carolina is doing so well as it is....

NOWHERE TO GO BUT DOWN FOLKS!!!!!!!

2/16/2006 12:54:54 PM

wheres TGD with his "oh you silly Lefties" talk and emoticons that make it look like hes not a troll like Excoriator?

2/16/2006 12:57:18 PM

If only there were another thread

on the front page

about the lottery

O WAIT


http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=386588


I wonder if there are any other threads on this topic?

HMMM.

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=387791
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=358551
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=343895
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=309641
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=298679
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=112887
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=63109

2/16/2006 1:00:30 PM

why is it, exactly, that a lottery - the free exchange of money being allowed by the government - is all of a sudden BAD in the eyes of republicans?

i'm so confused

2/16/2006 1:03:52 PM

I find it more ironic that Democrats, supposedly defenders of the down trodden and lower classes are in favor of such a regressive tax to fund education.

2/16/2006 1:16:52 PM

we're getting it

they've got job openings





[Edited on February 16, 2006 at 1:20 PM. Reason : v]

2/16/2006 1:20:32 PM

If this pending law suit is successful, the lottery bill will be declared unconstitutional, and the lottery will be no more.

2/16/2006 1:22:38 PM

well

they're staffing up for it to go through

i was solicited about a job opening today

2/16/2006 1:24:41 PM

Yes they are staffing, the motion to stop any lottery business activity was denied yesterday which would have prevented them from hiring and spending more money for now. But the law suit will continue and the constitutional objections to how the bill was passed are legitimate. It will be interesting to see what is decided.

[Edited on February 16, 2006 at 1:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2006 1:26:20 PM

do it - it's like $16/h for easy work

but i think you can't enter the lottory if so.....

2/16/2006 1:26:27 PM

might be looking for a job again soon though if this suit goes through.

2/16/2006 1:29:01 PM

republicans, democrats, whatever...

they're all crooked politicians.

2/16/2006 1:32:49 PM

Quote :

"why is it, exactly, that a lottery - the free exchange of money being allowed by the government - is all of a sudden BAD"

The problem is that the "free exchange" of money is only being allowed to occur with gov't. Gambling is such a moral evil that the state has forbidden it's corrupting influence..until politicians want more money for pet projects such as the governor's day-care program. Then gambling is OK.

Secondly, It is insane to keep giving more of your money to the state.. a state that has proven itself time and time again to be led by corrupt power-hungry politicians. Stop feeding the beast!

2/16/2006 1:56:43 PM

why do people get so worked up when politicians say one thing and then go do something else?

it's not like they lied or anything...

2/16/2006 2:00:19 PM

article from today's technician:

http://www.technicianonline.com/media/paper848/news/2006/02/16/News/The-Education.Lottery.That.Wasnt-1616093.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.technicianonline.com

2/16/2006 2:03:36 PM

I don't know why democrats support it.

I can't imagine why any liberal would. It's fucking stupid. It's a tax for education except they're to pussy to call it a tax, so it's regressive, it's wasteful, and it mostly goes to other things.


Does nobody involved see the irony in funding education by preying on the stupid?

2/16/2006 2:54:50 PM

Quote :

"PinkandBlack: wheres TGD with his "oh you silly Lefties" talk and emoticons that make it look like hes not a troll like Excoriator?"

my guess would be b/c most genuine L3fties oppose the lottery

[Edited on February 16, 2006 at 3:02 PM. Reason : see spooks as an example]

2/16/2006 3:02:19 PM

^I thought the left was for the lottery just because the right was against it for moral reasons.

I remember a lot of "you can't come up with a reason not to have a lottery other than citing religious morals" arguing going on. Looks like the lotto did lower the state's morals, and it hasn't even got off the ground yet.

2/16/2006 3:08:54 PM

I'm morally neutral towards gambling, but I'm morally opposed to the state doing it.

2/16/2006 3:16:08 PM

Quote :

" Secondly, It is insane to keep giving more of your money to the state.. a state that has proven itself time and time again to be led by corrupt power-hungry politicians. Stop feeding the beas"

I agree. tell that to all the republicans supporting all our overseas adventures

2/16/2006 3:18:03 PM

i seriously dont give a fuck if they have it or not because ITS A FUCKING LOTTERY AND MOST STATES HAVE THEM AND DONT FALL APART.

in Florida, students who obtain a specific GPA and SAT score are rewarded with the Bright Futures Scholarship. This is funded by lotto money. A student receives a given amount each year as long as they maintain a specific GPA in college.

Of course, as Libertarians, we all know that this is horrible, right?

2/16/2006 3:28:40 PM

^
compared to having the balls to just create a "Bright Futures Scholarship" tax that does the same thing? yes.

---

Quote :

"PinkandBlack: i seriously dont give a fuck if they have it or not because ITS A FUCKING LOTTERY AND MOST STATES HAVE THEM AND DONT FALL APART."

God bless logical fallacies, the oil that greases the axles of life

---

Quote :

"jbtilley: ^I thought the left was for the lottery just because the right was against it for moral reasons."

Most of teh L3ft still at least pretends to have some kind of compassion for the poor, and they realize the games will be primarily marketed to those least able to afford playing it.

A good primer on the NC lottery blocs (albeit [old]):
http://www.carolinajournal.com/jhdailyjournal/display_jhdailyjournal.html?id=488%20

Quote :

"John Hood's Daily Journal The Two Lottery Teams By John Hood July 15, 2002 RALEIGH — In describing North Carolina's lottery debate, pretty much everyone uses the shorthand of“pro-lottery” and “anti-lottery” to refer to the two sides in dispute. But the sides aren't monolithic. They are really coalitions of North Carolinians who may bring very different concerns and priorities to the debate, and whose may agree little with their teammates on a host of other issues. For a recent speech, I came up with the following breakdown of the two lottery teams: =================================== The Anti-Lottery Coalition • Religious Right —These are cultural conservatives, primarily Protestants but including some Catholics, Jews, and others. They constitute a Republican-leaning voting bloc in general, though the GOP's economic agenda is not what galvanizes them. They oppose the lottery because they view it, and pretty much all other forms of gambling, as immoral. • Religious Left —These are, for the most part, not cultural conservatives but faith is still central in their lives. They oppose the lottery not only because gambling is wrong but also, and most strongly, because it takes advantage of the poor and minorities. • Goo-Goos — These good-government types can be found among the ranks of universities, government agencies, nonprofits, and the news media. They oppose the lottery because it is an unreliable source of funds, an inefficient and regressive form of revenue collection, and an invitation to corruption of governments and elections. • Ga-Gas — A term referring to “ galloping gadflies,” these are the well-meaning left-wingers of the secular variety who oppose the lottery because it preys on the poor and because they've heard that someone, somewhere might make a corporate profit if a lottery is created. • The Club — These are the corporate executives, private university presidents, retired politicians, and the well-placed people who work for them in trade associations and chambers across the state. They oppose the lottery in part because, well,it is simply beneath us as a state to rely on a lottery to fund our government.Since everyone they know (fellow club members and all that) are also against the lottery, they figure that a few well-placed phone calls ought to be enough to kill the idea. Don't snicker — so far, they are right. • The Liberty Lobby — These are the anti-tax conservatives who oppose a state lottery because it would be a government-run monopoly that, even if successful, would merely give the government more money to waste. The argument sounds familiar. =================================== =================================== The Pro-Lottery Coalition • Misguided Libertarians — I don't mean members of the Libertarian Party, most of whom oppose the lottery for the reasons listed immediately above. What I mean is a broader segment of the state's population who don't want to be told what to do.They believe in the right to gamble their money away if they want to. They also think that other North Carolinians will play the lottery and thus shoulder the cost of government, allowing for a tax cut. The latter is pure fantasy —lottery states have higher tax burdens than do non-lottery states, on average —and the former is evidence of faulty reasoning. Whether to allow North Carolinians the freedom to gamble is a separate issue from the idea of having the state of North Carolina monopolize gambling and actively promote its citizens to play. • Misguided Libertines — These are the folks who actually want to play the lottery. The best I can say for them is that they lack the sense to go on the Internet and gamble to their heart's content at better odds and with more enjoyment than they will ever get out of a state lottery. In fact, they ought to make some friends and play poker with them. All in all, a deluded lot. • Democratic Party Animals — These officeholders and consultants believe that a lottery on the ballot means high Democratic turnout and plenty of gambling dollars to use in the 2002 campaigns. I think they are miscalculating, because a lottery referendum would likely bring out more religious conservatives who haven't been voting lately than it would members of the Democratic base. The money issue is more understandable, though I would note that it is an obvious way to evade campaign-finance rules. Hypocrisy, anyone? • The Blob — Bill Bennett's old term for the education establishment, the Blob represents all those organizations supposedly dedicated to our children's education but really just grabbing for more of other people's money. They are putting in a shameful performance on this issue, and enraging truly principled education leaders like former UNC President Bill Friday and former State Board of Education Chairman C.D. Spangler. • The Mob — The gambling industry views North Carolina, the largest state without a government lottery,as prime territory for its expansion. `Nuff said. =================================== Email me if you think I've forgotten someone. And, yes, I know that one can belong to several of these groups at once. The idea here is to see how people can get to the same political destinations by taking a variety of different routes."

[Edited on February 16, 2006 at 4:12 PM. Reason : ---]

2/16/2006 4:10:12 PM

I like the idea of a lottery, not something I'd use often at all, but it would be occasionally worth the entertainment of considering what I would do with all that unlikely money. It also reminds me of being a kid going with my Dad to VA to get a lottery ticket from time to time, and the fun of winning a couple of bucks occasionally on the smaller scratch off games.

Allowing straight up gambling might be fairer, but I think this is still a step in the right direction. I think the more gambling we allow, the harder it will become over the years to justify not allowing other types.

I've heard that some consider lotteries to be unfair on people who are bad at math. But then again so is the stock market, taxes, movie rental, and life in general. We shouldn't have to all reduce ourselves to the lowest common denominator all the time

Which part of the The Pro-Lottery Coalition do I fall into?

2/16/2006 5:30:17 PM

i just want one cause its fun to buy a ticket occasionally

2/16/2006 5:41:46 PM

Quote :

"God bless logical fallacies, the oil that greases the axles of life"

how the fuck is stating a fact a "logical fallacy"? stop being a prick.

Quote :

"The Mob — The gambling industry views North Carolina, the largest state without a government lottery,as prime territory for its expansion. `Nuff said."

since "people who dont care if there is a lottery or not b/c most states have it anyway" isnt at category, im aligning myself with these guys.

OMG VOLUNTARILY PAYING FOR A LOTTO TICKET=EVIL REGRESSIVE TAX!!!!111

[Edited on February 16, 2006 at 6:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2006 6:31:20 PM

^

Quote :

"PinkandBlack: how the fuck is stating a fact a "logical fallacy"? stop being a prick."

Start here:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

2/16/2006 6:48:38 PM

i stated that many states that have lotteries are not falling apart

virginia is not falling apart

neither is florida

both states have lotteries, neither has fallen apart

are you saying that nc is currently less stable than they woud be if they did not have a lottery?

if thats the case, then yes, theres more to be done before a lottery should be put in place

this is much ado about nothing. i cant believe theres people that are up in arms over the threat of a lottery...

2/16/2006 6:59:01 PM

actually, the reason its a fallacy is that it doesn't actually address the issue of "should we have a lottery." in other respects, its a bit of a scarecrow, because no one in here has said "the lottery would cause NC to fall apart," so saying "no other state has fallen apart, lets have a lottery!" is a logical fallacy.

2/16/2006 7:34:28 PM

burro stop being a prick.

2/16/2006 9:00:11 PM

the lottery is not a tax. no one is forcing anyone to buy a lottery ticket.

and coming from a state that had a lottery (Pennsylvania) I don't understand the fuss.

2/16/2006 9:10:59 PM

^my point exactly

2/16/2006 10:16:54 PM

The state should ban the automobile industry

then only allow you to buy government made cars

cause, hey, you would be buying them voluntarily.

2/16/2006 10:27:33 PM

This is a weird issue. Most conservatives are opposing something that is, in essence, a voluntary tax that would bring in revenue without the need to raise taxes for the rich.

And the social engineering, nanny staters suddenly become the righteous defenders of self responsibility, pushing for a plan that wastes the money taken from the lower class on projects that will never make an improvement in their lives.

2/16/2006 10:31:21 PM

wait, did someone just compare the lottery to a car?

2/16/2006 11:14:09 PM

Quote :

"the lottery is not a tax. no one is forcing anyone to buy a lottery ticket."

Of course nothing is by force but all you have to do is look at the demographics of those who purchase lottery tickets. People who are already making a good living generally see no need in "wasting" money on a lottery ticket because they really don't need to take a risk to acquire more.

Just did a quick search and found this demographics report on the Texas lottery. They removed a couple outliers in the lowest economic bracket because they spent an exorbitant amount of money on lottery tickets (find this a bit convenient but even without them the numbers are evident).
http://www.txlottery.org/info/demographicreport2004.pdf

Income		Spent/Month	% Monthly Income
<$20,000	$76.50		9.18%
20-29,000	$106.04		5.09%
30-39,000	$79.32		2.72%
40-49,000	$112.11		2.99%
50-59,000	$39.24		0.86%
60-75,000	$34.37		0.61%
76-100,000	$28.96		0.39%
>100,000	$71.42		0.57%

< HS diploma	$173.17
HS diploma	$82.04
Some College	$64.74
College Grad	$48.61

White		$55.02
Black		$108.96
Hispanic	$102.20
Other		$103.90

2/16/2006 11:48:28 PM

Quote :

""There's no way to safeguard against the Legislature changing things within the budget, to shift money around to basically end up supplanting what otherwise would be spent on education," said John Rustin, government relations director with the conservative Family Policy Council of North Carolina. The legislation Easley signed in August creating the lottery required that profits from the game add to existing education spending, and not supplant existing money spent on schools. But the state budget, signed by Easley two weeks earlier, contained provisions that deleted that obligation as soon as the lottery became law. Since taking office in 2001, Easley has persuaded lawmakers to fund two of his pet education initiatives, which will now receive funding from lottery profits. Half of the estimated $420 million in projected lottery profits raised in the next fiscal year will replace money that has paid for his More at Four preschool initiative and for public school class-size reduction. The rest of the lottery profits are targeted for public school construction and need-based college scholarships. Easley said he will propose using money that now pays for More at Four and class-size reduction on boosting teacher salaries to the national average. "What matters is whether those dollars are still being spent on education," he said. But Rustin said he believes many legislators were led to believe that lottery profits would pay for new programs. "Many likely supported it for that reason," Rustin said. "

2/17/2006 2:17:02 AM

I'd be happy with a lottery if it meant the pro-lotto people would stop bitching about government propaganda...

2/17/2006 6:36:14 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/8162006/detail.html

Didn't want to make a whole new thread about it... but HA HA!

MArch 30th, here I come -- I'll buy some on my way to Ben Folds.

3/21/2006 11:02:14 AM