http://trisoccerfan.blogspot.com/2006/02/could-triangle-support-mls-team.html

soccer games are fun

2/20/2006 11:23:53 AM

sad it'll never succeed

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 11:25 AM. Reason : .]

2/20/2006 11:25:19 AM

Hurricanes?

we already have one

and I would rather hold out for a MLB team, fuck soccer

2/20/2006 11:25:36 AM

Quote :

"and I would rather hold out for a MLB team, fuck soccer"

Charlotte is trying. Between them, Vegas, New Jersey, and Portland for the Marlins to move to I believe.

2/20/2006 11:27:07 AM

Quote :

"and I would rather hold out for a MLB team, fuck soccer baseball "

2/20/2006 11:27:55 AM

You are in the minority if you don't like baseball. Soccer is not popular at all. NC I think could easily support a MLB team.

2/20/2006 11:28:56 AM

Soccer isnt popular at all in NC? I bet if you checked up on what the most played youth sport in this area is you would find yourself to be pretty wrong about that.

2/20/2006 11:35:19 AM

yeah, i would be happy for a MLB team to go to charlotte

I think the gambling scandal with Gretzky may hurt Vegas's bid, not sure if this will have a direct effect, but there are definite rumblings that another sport is having a gambling controversy, and MLB is no longer eager to move to vegas

2/20/2006 11:40:16 AM

^^i bet if you looked at the attendane for state bball games vs state soccer games you would change your mind

i do know a ton of people that play soccer but i know barely anyone who watches it outside of the world cup

2/20/2006 11:43:39 AM

don't get me wrong, i wouldn't watch soccer either, but fuck baseball. boring-ass sport. give me basketball any day of the week.

2/20/2006 11:46:01 AM

most played recreationally, and most used money to attend are two entirely different statistics. I agree... baseball is more likely than soccer. driving to charolette all the time is a bitch :x

2/20/2006 11:46:54 AM

baseball would be bigtime in NC. this is a hotbed for talent and a pro team would help it out.

Baseball would get twice the support as the Hurricanes get.

2/20/2006 11:49:36 AM

baseball would get barely any support with the Braves and Nationals being the local favorites. Marlins will not come to North Carolina. I don't think Baseball will allow it.

2/20/2006 11:52:42 AM

not that i'm a fan, but this model doesn't seem to factor in stock car racing. i would assume this takes a little bit of the steam out of pro sports in the area as well.

2/20/2006 11:55:31 AM

Quote :

"don't get me wrong, i wouldn't watch soccer either, but fuck baseball. boring-ass sport. give me basketball football any day of the week."

now it's right

2/20/2006 12:04:39 PM

the nationals wont be local favorites if a team moves in mostly because there hasn't been enough time to really entrench loyalty. The braves i can see being a problem, but i think enough people hate them that they'd readily move to back a local team to beat them.

2/20/2006 12:09:41 PM

^exactly.

A pro baseball team in NC would get more fan support than the Hurricanes and Bobcats, probably put together.

I know it's a little different situation, but the NFL doesn't seem to care about having the Panthers, Falcons and Redskins. The Panthers hold their own.

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 12:18 PM. Reason : w]

2/20/2006 12:17:38 PM

Quote :

"baseball football would get barely any support with the Braves Falcons and Nationals Redskins being the local favorites"

????

2/20/2006 12:17:41 PM

Quote :

"Hurricanes? "

when will we have a major athletic team in Triangle?

2/20/2006 12:21:12 PM

Baseball would need more than double the attendance of the Bobcats and Hurricanes combined. You need at least 30,000 about 3-4 days a week in order to thrive

Quote :

"A pro baseball team in NC would get more fan support than the Hurricanes and Bobcats, probably put together."

They sure as hell would have to get more than both combined. The Hurricanes are having a great year so attendance is up for them and the Bobcats are new and with yougn UNC talent so there is buzz yet combined they are slotted to pull in 1,292,689 fans for 82 home games total. That puts them just barely out of last place where Tampa Bay sits with 1,124,188 in attendance for 80 games. If you doubled the Bobcats and Hurricanes combined attendance figures you would be at 2,585,378 people, which is just enough to overtake Atlanta for the 15th highest attendance in the league (exactly in the middle. This simply isn't going to happen. We just don't have the sustainable population that can do it yet. Not to mention that it would destroy the very successful minor league franchises of the Durham Bulls and Carolina Mudcats. I do remember hearing the Triad was the most significant market without a pro team. I found it hard to believe but apparently they judge it using something like a 100 mile radius.

Put the baseball team in Vegas. The tourist atmosphere lends itself well to walk-up attendance... a break from the casinos and night shows.



[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 1:57 PM. Reason : blah]

2/20/2006 1:44:11 PM

Quote :

"Interestingly enough, the Triad area is the best suited NC metro area for a new pro sports franchise with $54.0 billion in both TPI and Available TPI (they currently have no pro franchises) and Charlotte is almost completely saturated with only $3.0 billion in Available TPI after the adjustments for their basketball and football franchises"

2/20/2006 1:50:25 PM

There is plenty of support for baseball here.


The problem is like ^^ said.


North Carolina has like 25 minor league teams. They all kick & scream anytime pro baseball is mentioned because it would ruin their franchises.

And towns like Kinston, Zebulon, Greensboro, Asheboro, etc don't want their product to be destroyed just so the triangle can make money.



The Bobcats attendance is low because they suck cock. You cant pull off the "expansion team" excuse in an area that had a previous team for fifteen years. As soon as they get some talent and win some games, they will sell out again guaranteed. The Hornets were one of the best franchises in the league until their last two seasons.

The Hurricanes attendance is low because the NHL priced itself out of its market. They have gotten the inflation under control and the prices will return to market value in a few years...

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 1:55 PM. Reason : a]

2/20/2006 1:51:34 PM

hands up if you even remember the raleigh capital express

2/20/2006 1:55:26 PM

lets start by building a stadium for the CHARLOTTE Knights in CHARLOTTE...or at least give them a stadium in NORTH CAROLINA instead of the CHARLOTTE Knights' current stadium in SOUTH CAROLINA

2/20/2006 2:02:57 PM

just glanced at this thread, but no one honestly thinks that pro soccer is more cared about than pro baseball around here, right?

2/20/2006 2:05:38 PM

there are plans to build one uptown, it'll be a reality within about the next five years or so

the plans for it look really nice

the marlins wanted a 38,000 seat facility in second ward, but nobody wanted to pony up the money and that fell through

2/20/2006 2:06:00 PM

^^^^^ Being in the mid 20's in attendance for 41 game a year is much different than averaging 30,000+ for 80 games a year.

The Hurricanes don't have low attendance, in fact they are probably going to break their franchise attendance record this year. Remember, the league leaders only pull in 20,000 per game.

I just don't see how a NC team is gonna put 30,000+ butts in teh seat on a Tuesday afternoon at 1:00 when it 95 degrees and feels like 110. We just don't have the population for it yet.

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2006 2:06:17 PM

Baseball games don't routinely sell out.

You can't compare $60 hockey tickets to $12 baseball tickets anyway.

I don't know where you're from, but this is a redneck state by and large. If you were from the country, you'd know that baseball gets PLENTY of support. Hell, i grew up playing little league baseball games that had 200 people at them... legion games were practically sell outs in the summer. People who dont even have kids playing go to the games...



There's no salary cap in baseball and there's revenue sharing.


As long as total revenue - total costs = a positive number


Who gives a fuck what our attendance is... They're gonna set ticket prices where MR=MC regardless. It doesn't matter if the stadium is 25% capacity or sold out.

No one cares as long as they're making money.

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 2:22 PM. Reason : a]

2/20/2006 2:19:37 PM

Quote :

"hands up if you even remember the raleigh capital express"

*raises hand*

i'd go to MLS games here. screw you haters.

2/20/2006 2:22:35 PM

every sport has diehard fans

but if you think soccer could be financially feasible to have a pro team...um...i dunno about that

2/20/2006 2:23:50 PM

i dont think anyone is hating on mls theyre just being realistic.... the "stereotypical" south doesn't give a fly flip about soccer. And there aren't quite enough North Easterners in Cary to make up the difference. Baseball has a viable shot i think but I see transportation being the biggest problem. People in NY Boston and Baltimore figure out ways to go to games at 1pm on a weekday... after a while people in the triangle would to .

2/20/2006 2:29:02 PM

nah, soccer cant possibly survive in NC right now.

The MLS is barely profitable as it is in metro areas.


Basically, no one cares about soccer. Weak TV deals, weak attendance, weak merchandise sales...

There is a large spanish contigent in the state of NC, but not in the triangle. And even then Im not sure how into the MLS they are.


The MLS is such a sub-standard soccer product that most true soccer fans don't bother with it.

2/20/2006 2:29:03 PM

MLS is actually doing better then I thought it would be at this stage (that is I thought by year 10 it would have long ago gone under) and the Attendance #s aren't HORRIBLE in most cities. Of course this area couldn't support one but I'm a bit surprised it's still chugging along.

I will never understand why some players that could obviously be playing overseas right now stay in the US and play in the MLS. Country pride is one thing but they are absolutely killing their careers doing that and missing out on HUGE paydays..

2/20/2006 2:32:31 PM

^^ what he said... all of my euro friends going to school here refuse to watch it :x but then that could be because they're uppity euro's as well

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 2:33 PM. Reason : crap]

2/20/2006 2:33:25 PM

^^ not to mention a shit load of pussy.


If you're an athlete playing overseas you can fuck anything that moves.


Try telling a smoking hot girl in Dallas that you play for the Burn and see if thats an automatic panty dropper... doubt it


OTOH, even marginal players in D-leagues can pull serious ass abroad.

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 2:35 PM. Reason : a]

2/20/2006 2:34:35 PM

Quote :

"Baseball games don't routinely sell out."

No one said anything about having sellouts.

Quote :

"You can't compare $60 hockey tickets to $12 baseball tickets anyway."

Hockey tickets aren't that expensive, can see any home Hurricanes game for $10. I'm looking at SF Giants tickets right now and the cheapest is $25 and I could go down the road from there and see a San Jose Sharks game for $17 without any sort of discount.

Quote :

"I don't know where you're from, but this is a redneck state by and large. If you were from the country, you'd know that baseball gets PLENTY of support. Hell, i grew up playing little league baseball games that had 200 people at them... legion games were practically sell outs in the summer. People who dont even have kids playing go to the games..."

I grew up in the heart of Illinois. Basebal was life in those towns. I was in NC for the low teens on so I know the baseball support. However, simply because there is support for it on a youth level does not mean it translates to purchase ticket support. Heck, there is good reason why Our football stadium holds 52,000+ and our basketball area holds nearly 20,000 yet our newly renovated baseball stadium only holds 2,500. As mentioned before, look at how many people play soccer, nearly everyone at some point, yet there is nada in terms of pro or semi-pro support for the sport (nationwide, let alone local)

Quote :

"There's no salary cap in baseball and there's revenue sharing. As long as total revenue - total costs = a positive number Who gives a fuck what our attendance is... They're gonna set ticket prices where MR=MC regardless. It doesn't matter if the stadium is 25% capacity or sold out. No one cares as long as they're making money."

Exactly, and NC is definitely not a top choice if making money is your goal. A team could make it in NC but it isn't he prime location... at least not yet.

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 2:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2006 2:37:05 PM

^ did you read his whole post at one time ? or just immediatly begin quoting parts of it

2/20/2006 2:40:34 PM

Read it all at once but breaking it apart makes for easier specific response... Its the SoapBox in me.

2/20/2006 2:44:05 PM

Quote :

"legion games were practically sell outs in the summer."

it still blows my mind that people PAY to go to legion games

2/20/2006 2:47:17 PM

Quote :

"The MLS is such a sub-standard soccer product that most true soccer fans don't bother with it."

Actually, it's the other way 'round. The standard of play in MLS is roughly equivalent to today's standard in the old English Second Division (I'm not bothering with three generations worth of names). True soccer fans appreciate the product for what it is, whether it's MLS, A-League, PSL, or PDL. Hell, the PSL team (two divisions BELOW MLS) in Wilmington draws three thousand people even when it's raining, and five thousand on a nice night. The people who don't bother with MLS are the toolbags who won't watch a match unless Henry or Ronaldinho are playing.

Also, just for the sake of argument about the Hurricanes, they're averaging attendance of 15,262 through today. The same figure for State games (excluding the Reynolds game) is 13,527.

2/20/2006 2:48:44 PM

Quote :

"Read it all at once but breaking it apart makes for easier specific response... Its the SoapBox in me."

rally was trying to point out the fact that because of revenue sharing MLB is a much lower maintance product than NHL... a franchise wouldnt -NEED- to sell out every game .... hell they wouldnt need to sell out any games. just keep in the black and they are helping the league. Baseball is that much MORE attractive in this area, where historically major teams haven't fared well because they dont need to make huge amounts of profit to sustain.


and I think rally was a hair off on ticket prices, but MLB game tickets do get very very cheap. I saw the redsox and oriles 3games for 35 combined. granted the first two games I was in the upper deck. the third I was right in the corner by the poll, and was 1 11 year old girl away from catching a bomb by veritek

[Edited on February 20, 2006 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2006 2:51:19 PM

People who don't think soccer is popular in the triangle are so wrong. CASL, is one of the top leagues in the region, and people from all over the state travel here to tryout and attempt to get on one of the many CASL teams. Not to mention, the soccer game they had at SAS between the Rochester Rhino's and DC United was sold out. Soccer is very much a big thing in this area, and the addition of a pro team is only going to help it grow.

Of course, I wouldn't be against a baseball team either

2/20/2006 3:29:45 PM

Quote :

"rally was trying to point out the fact that because of revenue sharing MLB is a much lower maintance product than NHL... a franchise wouldnt -NEED- to sell out every game .... hell they wouldnt need to sell out any games. just keep in the black and they are helping the league. Baseball is that much MORE attractive in this area, where historically major teams haven't fared well because they dont need to make huge amounts of profit to sustain."

I know that is what he was saying. There is also now revenue sharing and even a salary cap in the NHL to better regulate finances. No team in any sport needs to selliout to stay in the black. My point was that we don't have the population to provide even marginal attendance for basebal specifically.

Quote :

"and I think rally was a hair off on ticket prices, but MLB game tickets do get very very cheap. I saw the redsox and oriles 3games for 35 combined. granted the first two games I was in the upper deck. the third I was right in the corner by the poll, and was 1 11 year old girl away from catching a bomb by veritek"

Several handfuls of hair off... big difference from $60 to $10-$17 and $12 to $25. Making shit up on the spot isn't usually his forte but he most definitely was speaking without basis this time.

2/20/2006 4:19:36 PM

Quote :

"I just don't see how a NC team is gonna put 30,000+ butts in teh seat on a Tuesday afternoon at 1:00 when it 95 degrees and feels like 110. We just don't have the population for it yet."

I would be one in those seats.

Plus NC is 10th in U.S. population. We have more people than Georgia, Missouri, Washington, Massachusetts, and many other states that support a team.

I know this doesn't neccessarily apply but the Panthers are doing quite well. The only problem is they play 8 home games instead of 81.

2/20/2006 4:33:16 PM

baseball is fucking boring too

2/20/2006 4:37:55 PM

baseball sucks

2/20/2006 4:45:17 PM

Quote :

"Georgia, Missouri, Washington, Massachusetts"

DURRRRR
lets ignore that
georga has ATLANTA
missouri has STL and KC
washington has SEATTLE
and
massachusettes has BOSTON

2/20/2006 4:47:29 PM

I used to go to Raleigh Capitals games minus the Xpress when they played at some high school.

2/20/2006 4:49:29 PM

You ever been to St. Louis??? It is not bigger than Charlotte. Outside of STL and KC what does Missouri have? Not much and they still support 2 teams. NC could easily support one.

2/20/2006 5:05:47 PM

set em up for disappointment

2/20/2006 5:07:48 PM