How does everyone like Apple computers and are they user friendly?

2/23/2006 9:22:02 AM

I switched to a Mac at work about a year and some change ago, and after using windows since the early 90's, I'd say i prefer it to windows at this point. You trade one set of annoyances for another, but the (current) lack of spyware, viruses, etc. is the biggest leg up, in my opinion. I also love the fact that it's built on a unix kernel, and as an engineer, it makes my job a lot easier. GDB is my friend.

Once the platform gains enough market share, the spyware/virus/malware advantage will probably go away, but that'll probably be a while.

Some weaknesses I've observed are less than stellar memory management. I tend to never reboot unless I'm patching my machine, but if i've had Safari running for a while, it will slowly leak memory until i have to kill it and restart the app. Kinda minor, but also kinda annoying.

For whatever reason, copying and pasting is a bigger pain on OSX. Sometimes i'll copy and go to paste my selection, and it will either be partially there, not be there at all, or paste something i copied a while ago. This is, in my opinion, the biggest annoyance.

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 11:30 PM. Reason : dfs]

2/23/2006 9:42:01 AM

It comes down to personal preference really.

Go to the Apple Store at Southpoint and try one. If you don't like it, buy a PC - if you do like it, buy a Mac.

Based on Consumer Reports and statistics Apple hardware has a lower instance of failure as compared to other PC manufacturers but you do pay a price premium for that.

For most tasks Macs get the reputation of "it just works" and there do seem to be far fewer headaches. If you need to play the latest games or have a wish to upgrade and modify the system a lot then they would not be for you.

A few PROs for both:

Mac - OS specifically taylored to hardware, does not loose performance as severely over time, no spyware, reduced risk of viruses

PC - More software, lower price point, easier to modify/upgrade, larger variety of vendors of hardware/software, better for gaming

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 10:21 AM. Reason : +]

2/23/2006 10:11:33 AM

I think it is important to go and try one first but at the same time, a 15 minute trial at the Apple store won't cut it.

Four years ago, I decided that I had enough of Windows and bought a 12" powerbook on an impulse. I just jumped head first in.

The thing I was most impressed with at the begining is how everything seemed more accessibly, especially options and preferences. There didn't seem to be as many "layers" to go through to change options.

For me the Mac has been more reliable than Windows and I consider myself to be at least competent with computers.

My grandfather used to call me every other week with issues on his Windows machine. When it died, I got him an eMac and after the first month, he hasn't called me with an issue and he can't name a single problem yet with the machine.

I would suggest getting a cheap g3 imac or emac off of ebay for like $200, playing with the operating system for a month and if you like it, resell that system for your money and get a new one.

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 11:03 AM. Reason : blah]

2/23/2006 11:01:32 AM

I love Macs, but they're only good at what they're good at.

For example, the pet peeves that makes me use a Wintel machine:

1) It's incredibly more difficult to make an HTML-based (colors, fonts, etc.) eBay listing on a Mac. If you use eBay heavily and aren't an HTML guru, this will annoy the heck out of you.

2) DVD ripping/burning: DVD Decrypter + DVD Shrink aren't available on the Mac, and to this day an acceptable substitute hasn't been made for the Mac.

3) Office: The Mac version of Office (Excel in particular) is really horrible. Sure, Word is fine. But I do lots of data analysis/spreadsheet work and the Mac version of Excel is just absolutely terrible and does NOT take kindly to importing an advanced spreadsheet first made in Windows.

4) Freeware apps: There is SO many little nifty freeware apps (Mihov's Image Resizer, etc etc.) that aren't available for the Mac. Yes, the Mac-library of freeware is growing, but with only ~5% marketshare it'll never come close to being as fulfilling as what'll be out there for the PC.

5) Connectivity: Xbox 360, PDAs, etc...they all just seem to work more seamlessly (or at all) w/ Windows. I know some have Mac-software bundled, but w/ a PC you don't have to carefully inspect the product for compatibility before buying it.

Macs are EXCELLENT machines...I use them everyday at work, but I owned one personally for 2 years and finally sold it off (btw, they have incredibly high resell value) and went back 100% PC and haven't regretted it. For my personal uses, the Mac just didn't live up. But here at work where it's a lot of video/audio editing, it's tough to beat FCP and the iLife suite.

2/23/2006 11:16:45 AM

^
I'll agree on Office and Xbox, but have always had seamless connectivity with everything else I've used. for DVDs you can always use MacTheRipper for ripping, ffmpegX for encoding, and Toast or iDVD for burning. Toast is the only one that costs $$$.

---

my comments basically mirror BobbyDigital, esp as I get more into *nix stuff

i still use a PC at the office though for smoother data transfer with some applications (like QuickBooks Pro files)

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 11:28 AM. Reason : ---]

2/23/2006 11:19:21 AM

Just avoid the new intel macs until you stop needing to use rosetta for everything except ilife. If you do like the macs, you might just want to wait till christmass roughly till they get all the kinks and performance/emulation issues worked out with the macs. Right now ms office for the mac doesn't even use universal binaires, so the already iffy version of exel another poster mentioned runs even slower and more painfully.

The intel ones have alot of power to grow into, but it might be best to just wait till the software can really take advantage of it.

2/23/2006 11:32:59 AM

Quote :

"My grandfather used to call me every other week with issues on his Windows machine. When it died, I got him an eMac and after the first month, he hasn't called me with an issue and he can't name a single problem yet with the machine."

I have had that experience too.

For people who had a lot of problems with their PCs (used it for e-mail, internet, word processing, etc) I convinced them to buy a Mac and after the initial adjustement they have been very happy and haven't had nearly as many problems. I am happy they aren't calling me and they are happy they have a computer that works - it's win/win.

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 12:02 PM. Reason : +]

2/23/2006 12:02:12 PM

I bought a Powerbook about 1.5 years ago just because I wanted something different. I had been using Windows virtually all my life (since version 3.1) and was curious about Macs. Before the Powerbook, the last Apple I really played on was one of the early-generation all-in-one Macintosh's with the monochrome screens back in the late 80s.

At the Apple store, I did play with one of the laptops for an hour or so and interrogated one of the salesmen about what all I would and wouldn't be able to do on it with regards to my schoolwork, my research, and my other work.

As far as compatibility, I can't say that I've ever really had any problems. As stated before, Office sucks on a Mac; it's slow and the interface is more difficult to use in my opinion. I don't make very complex spreadsheets, so I can't say that I've run into any problems there. I spend most of my time working with simple ASCII LaTeX files, so the only problem I had as a 5-minute annoyance of getting the Unix/Windows line-break issues to work out for display purposes only though, since LaTeX doesn't really give a shit about line breaks.

I can be pretty much self-sufficient on my Mac without needing to use Windows. The only time I am not is when I need to run a circuit simulation in PSPICE. I'll either use Virtual PC and run it, or Remote Desktop back to my computer depending on the complexity of the circuit (VPC = slow). But that's it.

The OS is fun to play with, especially if you're coming from Windows. It's powerful, and it has taken me a long time to truly get used to it. There are probably a lot of features I still don't know about, and a lot of features that I do know about that don't use. Personally, I wasn't too impressed with the Spotlight search Apple boasted about with the new OS. I've heard the exact opposite from other people, but it just hasn't been useful to me. For some reason Spotlight doesn't want to index my LaTeX files or the PDF files it generates (which makes up nearly 80% of my data).

The default programs you get when you buy a Mac are pretty nice. I've fallen in love with their Mail program and now prefer it to any other clients. Granted I don't use anything more than a few IMAP accounts, so Mail's simplicity is a bonus. The iLife applications are also pretty neat. I don't ever use them, but in playing around with them, it looks like it's very simple to create movies and DVDs, and organize your pictures. I'll also agree to the shortage of freeware applications that SouthPaW12 mentioned, and DVD ripping is not easy.

The only truly negative thing I will say about Apple is their technical support. I've had to call them a few times, and have gotten so frustrated at the level of pretentiousness of their representatives. If something doesn't work, I don't want them calling me a dumbass, telling me that I should just stick to Windows, and then telling me how to fix it, I just want them to tell me how to fix it. Maybe I am a dumbass, but for the amount of money I paid for the computer and for the extended support warranty, I expect a certain level of professional courtesy. I've spoken with some that were so bad I've just hung up and called back.

Overall I'm happy with my purchase. If you do get an Apple, I'd recommend checking out http://www.macosxhints.com - It's a website that often posts nifty tips and tricks about the OS and other applications that can make your computing experience a lot easier.

2/23/2006 12:07:51 PM

I had macs from when I was a kid until a few years ago, at which point I bought my first PC. Right now, with XP, the differences between Macs and PCs are far milder than they were a long time ago. I still generally prefer MacOS for it's usability, it's basis in BSD, and just the overall care put into the feel and design. But fuck if I'm gonna pay $2000 for a damn computer.

2/23/2006 12:09:08 PM

I'm going through the process of looking into the differences between the two, and one suggestion I can offer is try going to one of the Unity Labs on campus and working on a Mac for a while.

Most labs have a few available, and it allows you to play around on your own for a while. Try using Safari, and other applications you would normally use on your own. It's definitely let me get a feel for the OS and how much I would like it.

2/23/2006 12:54:30 PM

mac = pretty os, less software, less hardware, more expensive.
windows = usable but not pretty os, lots of software lots of hardware, less expensive.

if all you do is surf the web listen to music and maybe play 1 of the 3 or 4 games availible on the mac, then it might be better for you. Even though it costs more the lack of spyware and viruses is a huge plus for people who aren't capable of managing windows.

but if you want to play more than the sparse selection of games that are on the mac, you'd need a pc.

spyware and viruses can be avoided on windows with common sense and a little bit of learning.

others might try to stress the GUI as being more user friendly, but in my experience its the same thing in a slightly different arangement. Either one is easy to use.

2/23/2006 1:04:06 PM

I know it depends on user preference but I really enjoy Word and Excel for Mac better than the Windows counterpart.

I like the separate floating preferences window that quickly shrinks and expands in both of the programs. For Excel, I like how the window where the spreadsheet cells are is separated from the header. To me it makes it easier to look at multiple spreadsheets at once because there isn't that bulkly window around each one.

Anyway, you can always try iWorks for a spreadsheet.

2/23/2006 1:48:20 PM

yeah, and iwork is only like 39 bucks at the bookstore and I think online.

And that brings up another point. Apple's homebrewed software is much better than the built in stuff for windows (with the exception of safari which isn't better or worse than explorer, just differently bad.) The iLife suite is pretty decent for basic stuff, and if you're a student the advanced apple content creation software is availible well below so-called education pricing.

There is however equally good, if not better, 3rd party software availible for the pc, and if you've got a dual core athlon it actually runs better on the pc by alot.

[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2006 1:55:04 PM

You can also check if to see if any programs you use have Mac version. This site pretty much lists just about everything...

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

2/23/2006 2:20:49 PM

who the heck deleted my post, and why? it was informative

2/23/2006 2:39:19 PM

also i'd rather support a managed domain of windows computers then one of macs simply b/c of the power of active directory and GPOs.

but then if i had to support an unmanaged group of computers (like a dorm) i'd rather they be macs so i have less virus/spyware issues.

2/23/2006 2:44:42 PM

^^ was not me, i didn't delete any posts in this thread.

2/23/2006 3:07:40 PM

^ his post is still there, he just isn't seeing it

unless he's talking about another post other than this one

2/23/2006 3:10:26 PM

yea there are some missing posts in there. someone probably fubared some html in there between BobbyDigital and spookyjon.

omg the mod broke teh forum ban ban ban

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[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 9:44 AM. Reason : --!></


in bobbydigital's first post should be



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[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 9:44 AM. Reason : --></


i think




[Edited on February 23, 2006 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2006 3:35:05 PM

Quote :

"I think it is important to go and try one first but at the same time, a 15 minute trial at the Apple store won't cut it."

You can try for longer than 15 minutes.

Another option that might work is buy one of their open box machines and try it, you have 14 days. If you don't like it, take it back (make sure you're in those 14 days). You may still need to pay a restocking fee on the open box, but it will be cheaper than a new one, and works out to ~200 to rent the machine for 2 weeks.

Getting a cheap second hand one would work too.

Quote :

"2) DVD ripping/burning: DVD Decrypter + DVD Shrink aren't available on the Mac, and to this day an acceptable substitute hasn't been made for the Mac. "

http://handbrake.m0k.org/

personaly I use MacTheRipper, DVD2OneX and DVDImager

Quote :

"4) Freeware apps: There is SO many little nifty freeware apps (Mihov's Image Resizer, etc etc.) that aren't available for the Mac. Yes, the Mac-library of freeware is growing, but with only ~5% marketshare it'll never come close to being as fulfilling as what'll be out there for the PC. "

Not true, most of the best software on the mac is the shareware/freeware software.

http://mat.subsume.com/ is a good aggregator of the latest stuff comming out.
http://www.versiontracker.com and http://www.macupdate.com are good places to find stuff.

Quote :

"Anyway, you can always try iWorks for a spreadsheet."

iWork doesn't have spreadsheets.

2/23/2006 11:25:22 PM

Quote :

"BobbyDigital: For whatever reason, copying and pasting is a bigger pain on OSX. Sometimes i'll copy and go to paste my selection, and it will either be partially there, not be there at all, or paste something i copied a while ago. This is, in my opinion, the biggest annoyance. "

I bet it's because you press control instead of command sometimes, because you are so use to Windows.

I've never had a problem in OS X copy/pasting, unless it was from an X11 program.

2/25/2006 2:28:24 AM

I've been using a Mac Mini at home exclusively since last summer. I'll probably buy an Intel PowerMacBook or something come revision 2 towards the end of this year.

I don't feel like writing a whole review right now, but I will address one issue, which I think is a misconception. Before I switched, I was worried about all the software on my PC and I thought that I'd be "software starved" on the Mac. This is completely and totally not true.

The difference is in perception, I think. On Windows, for every little utility or program, there are 100's of versions to choose from. Everybody who took a semester of VB seems to have their own little set of utilities they give away on their website. The problem is, 90% of them are total crap, 8% are ok and occasionally you'll find one that kicks ass. Also, 99% of them look like shit and have terrible usability.

But on the Mac, for any particular function or utility, instead of finding 95 shitty programs, you might find 3-5, and they will all, for the most part, kick ass, and all of them will look much better than their Windows counterpart.

For most of the major program there are, of course, Mac counterparts. The only program I need is MS Money - I use Virtual PC to run that, and look forward to running it much faster on an Intel Mac.

Programs that have Win and Mac versions:
Office
FireFox
Acrobat, Photoshop (any Adobe product)
Dreamweaver, Fireworks (any Macromedia product)
Azureus
Konfabulator (or Dashboard)
Democracy
Google Earth
QuickTime (for WMV, use MS FlipForMac plugin to QT)
VLC
RealPlayer
Norton Antivirus
Quicken

But for all the small programs/utilities there are plenty of alternatives:
Picasa - iPhoto
AIM, Trillin, Gaim - Adium, iChat
IE, FireFox - FireFox, Safari, OmniWeb, Camino, Shira
Google Earth - Google Earth
Windows Explorer - Finder, PathFinder (much better than Windows Exp or Finder)
Acrobat - Macs create PDFs natively. Also use Preview or PathFinder to view PDF
WinZip, WinRAR - StuffIt
WSFTP, CuteFTP, etc - Cyberduck, Transmit (best FTP program i've used on either system)

and others that I'm not familiar enough with the Windows versions to make direct comparisons
launchers - QuickSilver
media library - Delicious Monstor
GarageBand
iDVD
iMovie
countless system menu utilities
tons of built in utilities that are 3rd party in Windows, or are completely buried

So unless you use very specific programs that you know aren't available on Mac, i wouldn't worry about the software problem

2/25/2006 2:36:37 PM

Yeah, it's generally specialized CAD and scientific programs that are hard to find across platforms... oh... and games. Gaming on the mac is lacluster, but if the one or two games you play are availible it's not TOO bad.

2/25/2006 2:44:43 PM

It's all about audience. Computer saavy people aren't going to see much of a difference (most of the people on this site). For the vast majority of people, though, there is a huge usability bonus.


I really hate trouble shooting windows, though. The lack of problems and malware is enough to sway me one way. Unless your time has a really low value, it's just not worth it to spend a lot of time fixing a computer. The only reason I can tolerate windows at work is because I can run to the IT department whenever I have some problem.

^^ dont forget OS-level spell check for all text boxes or right click dictionary lookup


[Edited on February 25, 2006 at 8:00 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/25/2006 7:58:05 PM

I chose to switch after 2.5 years of working in a lab that uses just macs. Since I was using both the macs at work and my PC at home, a couple hours on each every day, I got a good feeling for which I preferred. The day I started walking to the macs and not PCs in computer labs on campus I knew I would make the switch the next time I bought a computer. Someone recommended using a Mac in a lab on campus for a while to get a feel for it - excellent idea. The ones in the Foreign Language Lab in the Laundry Building are my favorites on campus - and they have two button mice hooked up to them which eases the move from Windows.

2/27/2006 12:02:27 AM

Apple switching from the one button mouse to the mighty mouse as the standard mouse was long overdue.

2/27/2006 12:40:53 AM

^ it's been possible to use a multibutton mouse for a long long time now...

Quote :

"I bet it's because you press control instead of command sometimes, because you are so use to Windows."

I went with that assumption at first, but I haven't used a PC at all in almost a year now, and I know i'm using command, but it still happens. Even when i right click and select copy, I sometimes will have to try it a couple of times before it actually copies the right text.

Quote :

"Once the platform gains enough market share, the spyware/virus/malware advantage will probably go away, but that'll probably be a while."

Man, why'd I have to open my mouth?

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=13911&Page=1&pagePos=2

and

http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/archive-022006.html#00000819

2/27/2006 2:24:30 PM

Quote :

"BobbyDigital: I went with that assumption at first, but I haven't used a PC at all in almost a year now, and I know i'm using command, but it still happens. Even when i right click and select copy, I sometimes will have to try it a couple of times before it actually copies the right text."

I've had the same issue, usually trying to copy things in Firefox. MacOS X doesn't seem to like copying both text and what I guess the OS would consider an "object" of some sort (like a BR tag in HTML). I'll have to re-highlight to get exactly what I want; go too far, and it's like the copy command does nothing at all, and I end up pasting whatever the last thing was on the Clipboard.

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 2:36 PM. Reason : ---]

2/27/2006 2:35:45 PM

Quote :

"it's been possible to use a multibutton mouse for a long long time now..."

no shit, but they still included a crappy one button mouse as the default. the mighty mouse is now the default mouse. people who do anything like gaming will still probably want to switch to something by logitech, but it was really retarded to have the basic mouse be that clear piece of junk it was.

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 3:53 PM. Reason : ]

2/27/2006 3:52:29 PM

Ok, I'll agree with that, but that's just splitting cunt hairs.

2/27/2006 4:16:20 PM

That it was shitty of them to package a shitty mouse with the computer without the option of replacing it with a 3rd party 2 button mouse or even their new mighty mouse as an upgrade at order for a long ass time?

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 4:21 PM. Reason : ]

2/27/2006 4:21:19 PM

mac sucks. really.

2/27/2006 5:08:19 PM

your mom sucks, really

2/27/2006 5:11:07 PM

for real?

2/27/2006 5:16:57 PM

now that mac's are intel based, why would anyone buy a "mac"? why not just install bsd + enlightenment? have your interface and a much more customizable, up to date base

AND all the bsd freeware

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 6:18 PM. Reason : hell if you could get the libraries from osx86 you could even run/emulate mac stuff]

2/27/2006 6:16:09 PM

^are you lost?

2/27/2006 6:27:55 PM

2/27/2006 6:39:06 PM

^ smoothcrim pls explain your system

2/27/2006 8:21:04 PM

^apparently he equates looking queer with "user friendly"

2/27/2006 9:52:55 PM

http://bancomicsans.com/home.html

2/27/2006 10:19:55 PM

This too is somewhat relevant to this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAGr3mVVUwE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etuaw%2Ecom%2F

2/27/2006 10:50:49 PM

^ ahaha thats awesome

2/27/2006 11:00:06 PM

^^Haha. Thanks.

2/27/2006 11:51:21 PM

the system with that screenshot is linux with enlightenment as the window manager, and an osx based theme.

2/28/2006 2:02:24 PM

something tells me you'll soon be trying to convince your wife to go with the vinyl siding and laminate floors

2/28/2006 2:16:16 PM

http://brentroad.com/message_search.aspx?type=topic§ion=3&searchstring=Apple&username=&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=
http://brentroad.com/message_search.aspx?type=topic§ion=3&searchstring=Apple&username=&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=
http://brentroad.com/message_search.aspx?type=topic§ion=3&searchstring=Apple&username=&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=

2/28/2006 2:21:18 PM

If you like mac software but hate apple hardware, put FreeBSD on a PC and run Gnome. (almost) best of both worlds.

2/28/2006 3:38:42 PM

^you mean crappy support, no software, and user unfriendliness? It's the best problems of both worlds!

2/28/2006 3:42:10 PM

^ you sound like a complete idiot. there are more pieces of software for *nix than there are for osx, the difference is like an order of magnitude. who the fuck needs support? do you routinely call ms or apple about when you fuck up your computer, or do you post some stupid shit on tdub that people laugh at you about? once bsd is installed and configured properly, it can be I'd say ~85% as user friendly as apple, while maintaining 893475893475983457% of apple functionality

2/28/2006 5:32:02 PM