people can't rely on computers for everything. and gc 211 is easy, why is anyone complaining?

Quote :

">Hello everyone, > >To those of you who don't know me, I'm a junior in Aerospace Engineering. >I'm currently taking GC 120 (as GC 211 is no longer offered) and have >noticed that a lot of the course is completely inapplicable to us today. >The hand drawing and lettering portions of the class seem completely >out of date. I'd like to see the course stay focused on computer aided >design as opposed to sketching and lettering. > >I'm compiling a list of your opinions on the subject to take to the >department. Please send me your opinions and experiences on either GC >120 or GC 211 and what you would like to see improved or stay the same >in those classes. I can be reached at kmcasper@ncsu.edu . > >I'm hoping to have our department take a look at the current course and >hopefully modify it to include more advanced computer modeling >techniques while eliminating pointless lettering and sketching >exercises. I know this will not benefit many of you, but it will help >out all the other students behind us. > >Thank you for your help! > >Sincerely, > >Katya Casper "

2/24/2006 1:42:33 PM

I don't know anything about the course, but nevertheless, hand drawing's nice for getting an idea on paper. ie. sketching.

Besides, hand drawing is fun.

2/24/2006 1:50:43 PM

So...did she email this to random students? Or those within a major?

This is something she should bring up with her adviser, since it seems GC 211/210 is a course chosen for AEs for a specific reason. Is this so, or do you guys have a goup of courses like this to choose from?

2/24/2006 2:38:58 PM

i'm in the GC major and before you do any "advanced computer modeling" it's best to start with the basics. computer models require a lot of 3d visualization, being able to see something 2d in a 3d form, and the best way to do that is to learn what it looks like on paper and then try to do it on the computer

they wouldn't specify this class if they didn't think the principles taught in the class were useful. everything i learned in there really helped me in the "advanced computer modeling" classes

2/24/2006 2:58:05 PM

the only people who complain that manual graphics are outdated are just mad they can't draw themselves

[Edited on February 24, 2006 at 3:36 PM. Reason : grammur duhhhh]

2/24/2006 3:36:02 PM

it was forwarded by the department

i think some hand skills are really important in the ideation stage. maybe she's better than me at solidworks, but when i am trying to explain an idea to others i dont want to have to draw it up in solidworks every time. the people that criticize hand drawings are the ones that have never tried to design anything.

2/24/2006 4:36:06 PM

^precisely

2/24/2006 4:46:25 PM

Hand drawings are a great way of learning the basics.

When you take those computer models to the shop, you give them 2D projections, and you need to know the standards for presenting those.

I'm guessing this person is a freshman or sophomore who doesn't understand how things really work yet, and just decided to complain anyway.

2/24/2006 5:29:21 PM

I just replyed like this:

"While I agree that the applicability of the hand drawing and lettering portion of that course is limited for today's engineers, that portion helped me learn how to make a clear problem sketches of engineering systems. I really hated filling out those worksheets, but I think that the skills I learned in the course have given me a procedure to follow in sketching that leads to a better understanding of every problem I work. I know many students, myself included, who were not confident in making simple sketches of engineering systems before a GC course. I’ll bet you get very few pro-“keep the courses the same” responses, but I would advise you to at least pause and think about how difficult engineering courses would be if the students did not have the opportunity to learn fundamentals of sketching for engineering."

2/24/2006 6:42:19 PM

2/24/2006 7:49:15 PM

At my co-op, the boss stressed that it was very important for me to know how to read/create technical drawings. GC 211 was a lot of busywork, but it definitely taught me the fundamentals of engineering graphics and how to interpret drawings. The projection and multiview stuff is very helpful in learning how to vizualize a part by its drawing. The kid who sent the email probably felt like a kindergardener filling out the lettering sheets, but that stuff is important. Lots of kids have shitty writing that won't be acceptable on a technical document.

Plenty of class time was spent on Solid Works and I think that CAD didn't get stiffed at all. Solid modeling programs tend to be very simple. However the basics of drawing are a lot more difficult to grasp for some people, and you have to know the basics before you can model something.

2/24/2006 10:47:53 PM

if i remember correctly we spent about half a class period on lettering

this chick sounds lie a real twat

2/25/2006 12:52:03 AM

^ i agree with everything you just said, especially this part

Quote :

"The projection and multiview stuff is very helpful in learning how to vizualize a part by its drawing."

knowing how to turn and rotate an object in my mind to "see" all sides from just looking at a 2d picture is VERY important when looking at drawings. the hand drawing part, especially where you had to redraw the object after rotating it is pretty helpful.

2/25/2006 12:52:10 AM

-Asking the department to change their course cirriculum is going to be extremely difficult. You will need some compelling reasons to present before a number of people, including the department head.
-Asking a department to change the way a course is taught is goign to be extremely difficult. You will need some compelling reason to present before a number of people, including the departmen head. Not to mention the faculty who have to redo lesson plans.

If this person feels strongly enough about it, go ahead and pursue the issue. Otherwise, grin and bare it ... every major has at least one course with material that is either outdated or inapplicable.

2/25/2006 1:07:57 AM

^Yeah, the engineering curricula are largely determined by the accreditation board...

2/25/2006 1:11:57 AM

how about: humanities requirements are outdated

2/25/2006 1:31:44 AM

This girl is actually in lots of my classes and I would definitely describe her as a complete overachiever, so anyone who thinks that she is just being lazy or whatever, that is not the case. She seriously is probably studying or doing a homework assignment right now (at 2:10AM Saturday morning). I think most people are interpreting the email incorrectly. She doesn't mean that the hand drawings should go. The way she presented it in class is that she thinks all the worksheets of just writing the alphabet over and over again are "inapplicable"

2/25/2006 2:11:31 AM

I have a little bit of mixed opinions on this.

Hand drawing is very good at teaching basics that are used later in CAD. Projections, 3-views, proper terminology on drawings (for use in manufacturing shop) are all really important.

But spending half the damn semester on how to print letters correctly? And then when we finally do get around to CAD, it's only for two weeks and it's in AutoCAD?? (the section I took, at least)
We really spent way too much time on lettering, and how big to make the arrowheads, and how big to make the cross-hatch in the middle of a circle, and how far apart the make the diagonal lines in a section view.


Maybe they've changed it since I took that class (I'm sure they have), but when I took it, it seriously needed much more emphasis on CAD.



And Katya is a very smart girl. One of the smartest I've seen in the last 4 classes of AE to come through. (Not that anybody was saying she wasn't, but still...)

Quote :

"This girl is actually in lots of my classes and I would definitely describe her as a complete overachiever,"

She definitely is, but not in a bad way at all. She's one of the few people who come through who actually fully analyzes the results of every problem she's given in "true engineer form." A rare trait, especially for a junior. I would put full confidence in her analyzing in-depth this proposal and its ramifications before acting on it like she has.

Quote :

"how about: humanities requirements are outdated"

How about: I was being nice when I only took off 15 points for grammar and style from every lab report I've graded over the last two years. (on average...) Most undergrad engineering writing I've seen deserves flunking despite the merits of the material itself.

But fuck history and philosophy.



[Edited on February 25, 2006 at 2:18 AM. Reason : ]

2/25/2006 2:11:56 AM

I like history.

2/25/2006 1:55:54 PM

i think we should have more humanities
well maybe not, i dont want classes to be filled with people who dont care

i just wish i could take more and have it count for something (i guess a minor is an option)

2/25/2006 4:21:53 PM

Quote :

"But fuck history and philosophy."

thats pretty sad

2/26/2006 5:29:04 AM

until humans evolve beyond the need for hands, hand drawing will not be "outdated"

2/26/2006 12:32:16 PM

2/26/2006 2:57:28 PM

Quote :

"knowing how to turn and rotate an object in my mind to "see" all sides from just looking at a 2d picture is VERY important when looking at drawings. the hand drawing part, especially where you had to redraw the object after rotating it is pretty helpful. "

you have to take a class for that?

2/26/2006 3:38:24 PM

the classes help excersise that part of the mind, yes

for some people its not natural (although to be fair these people often aren't trying to be engineers)

2/26/2006 6:14:04 PM

no, i dont need a class for that. i just said it is helpful, ass.

2/26/2006 10:09:11 PM

GC 420

2/27/2006 10:46:16 PM