http://www.cbs46.com/Global/story.asp?S=4656993

Summary of the article basically says that the Georgia House passed a bill that will allow public schools to teach a bible class as an elective in its schools. The Rep that sponsored the bill says it'll stand up to court challenge because the old and new testaments are being used as historical documents.


So where on the spectrum do you fall? Do you think this is gonna work and that it's a great idea? Or are you like me, and think that this not the venue for such a class.

Plus, does it stand a snowballs chance in hell in the courts?

I think no.

3/21/2006 1:54:21 PM

personal stance: who cares - it is an elective. people can choose not to take it. public colleges and universities offer courses on christianity, judaism, islam, etc all the time. literature courses use koran and bible excerpts on a regular basis. don't see why people need to get bent out of shape about an elective in a HS.

now if it were a required class, i might feel differently as i wouldn't want to be forced to take a class on islam. turnabout is fair play.

3/21/2006 1:59:14 PM

better than a church teaching constitution classes?

3/21/2006 2:02:54 PM

I don't think public schools are the venue for "Bible Study." If you want to have a religious history class where you teach things other than just Christianity, and it is in a scholarly fashion, then that would be better.


As it is, since it is an elective class, and assuming they don't force kids to take it like the "electives" were at my school, then I can't argue too hard against it.

3/21/2006 2:03:34 PM

um, we had one of these at Garner Senior. my favorite history teacher taught a class on academic study of the bible. it was an elective, and it was taught from a historical context.

how is this news?

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2006 2:09:30 PM

Quote :

"State Representative James Mills, the proposal's House sponsor, said the legislation would withstand a court challenge because it treats the Bible as an educational supplement"

Sounds like a vitamin pill. Does that mean this class will provide 100% of the gov't daily requirement for religion?

3/21/2006 2:12:47 PM

RELIGION CLASS: NOW ENTIRELY Q'RAN FREE!

3/21/2006 2:17:32 PM

i see no problem with it, it will help get that shit out of the science class

3/21/2006 2:24:50 PM

How you everyone feel about the public school systems funding and paying for an elective class that teaches only Islam using the Koran as a textbook? Or an elective Judaism class using the Torah?

Do you feel like if one class is offered they need to offer eletive classes for ALL the major religions?

3/21/2006 2:28:25 PM

it'd be funny if the regular teacher gets sick

and the substitute is like some raging atheist who takes the time to shoot that shit full of holes

3/21/2006 2:40:12 PM

its a course on the history and literature of the old testament and new testament eras
judaism and islam are sure to come up

3/21/2006 2:41:31 PM

Quote :

"if the regular teacher gets sick"

Hi kids. Your teacher is "sick" today so I'll be filling in. Please allow me to introduce myself...I'm a man of wealth and taste....

3/21/2006 3:22:51 PM

As long as it stays an elective and not a required course I fail to see the problem.

Quote :

"How [does] everyone feel about the public school systems funding and paying for an elective class that teaches only Islam using the Koran as a textbook? Or an elective Judaism class using the Torah?"

Why not? If enough students want such a class to justify the expenditure then I fail to see the problem. Personaly I would find such classes facinating.

Quote :

"Do you feel like if one class is offered they need to offer eletive classes for ALL the major religions?"

Only if there is sufficient desire. For example I would have loved a class on Shinto but since I would have been one of about 4 at my highschool who would have taken that class, there is not sufficient demand to justify taking a classroom and a teacher for such a class.

3/21/2006 3:30:59 PM

i'm cool with it, so long as the books are scrutinized scientifically and not taken at face value as fact.

3/21/2006 3:47:13 PM

How do you ensure that the class is teaching only the history and is not being used to propogate the christian/islamic/jewish/whatever religion?

3/21/2006 3:48:58 PM

they would go ape if this was on the quran

3/21/2006 3:50:04 PM

^^reviewed texts and syllabi. same as with any religious or non-religious class.

Quote :

"How you everyone feel about the public school systems funding and paying for an elective class that teaches only Islam using the Koran as a textbook? Or an elective Judaism class using the Torah? Do you feel like if one class is offered they need to offer eletive classes for ALL the major religions?"

i don't think it is feasible to have a class on each and every religion. i personally think that one class that covered most of the major religions' history and beliefs would be awesome. i'd have taken that in a heart beat.

but i'm with the others, if there is sufficient interest in a class on judaism, islam, buddhism, etc., go for it.

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 3:59 PM. Reason : er]

3/21/2006 3:56:22 PM

Quote :

"If you want to have a religious history class where you teach things other than just Christianity, and it is in a scholarly fashion, then that would be better. "

agreed.

3/21/2006 4:04:49 PM

a bibly study cannot be held at public schools, once you cross that line, youre the taliban

3/21/2006 4:09:04 PM

i bet they'll try to say jesus was white, too...

silly crackers

3/21/2006 4:11:30 PM

I can't believe they needed to pass a bill in order to have this class.

I took a World Religions class at my high school. First semester was dedicated to Christianity/Bible. The next semester was dedicated to other religions.

This class will likely end up as "Criticisms of the Bible as a Historical Document." It won't be Sunday school shit.

What DG said:

Quote :

"i'm cool with it, so long as the books are scrutinized scientifically and not taken at face value as fact."

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 4:14 PM. Reason : sss]

3/21/2006 4:13:31 PM

If theology opens the door to teaching more philosophy and ancient mythology in high school then I'd be interested in those jobs.

3/21/2006 4:16:45 PM

Quote :

"it'd be funny if the regular teacher gets sick and the substitute is like some raging atheist who takes the time to shoot that shit full of holes"

Why should high school be so different from college? Seems like most religion professors are raging athiests to begin with.

In any case, I wouldn't personally want to take a Christianity class in high school, middle school, college or whatever.

Do I think it violates the establishment clause to have this class? No.

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 4:28 PM. Reason : safd]

3/21/2006 4:27:10 PM

Quote :

"i'm cool with it, so long as the books are scrutinized scientifically and not taken at face value as fact."

never did i ever scientifically scrutinize anything in any mythology or history courses, why should this be different?

this isn't going to be sunday school

3/21/2006 4:34:52 PM

but history has its own ways to scrutinize its material... something some religious people might be uncomfortable exposing their kids to when it comes to the bible.

3/21/2006 4:41:40 PM

Quote :

"never did i ever scientifically scrutinize anything in any mythology or history courses, why should this be different?"

Are you implying this class should be taught like, "Okay, here's what happened in the Bible"? Because that would be Sunday School.

A quote from me:

Quote :

"This class will likely end up as "Criticisms of the Bible as a Historical Document." It won't be Sunday school shit."

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 5:03 PM. Reason : sss]

3/21/2006 5:02:45 PM

never scrutinized anything in roman, greek, or norse mythology

3/21/2006 5:02:55 PM

^Because the mythology itself is not tied into history.

3/21/2006 5:03:51 PM

Quote :

"but history has its own ways to scrutinize its material... something some religious people might be uncomfortable exposing their kids to when it comes to the bible."

For real though. In my Relgions class, there was a girl who came to me after school crying and telling me about her genuine concern for the future of my soul. Kinda sucked.

3/21/2006 5:11:34 PM

Well troy is a real city, Agamemnon’s home Mycenae was found, king Minos (whose wife bore the minotaur) had a city Knossos.

Though when studying mythology you presume that nothing supernatural actually happened, and instead look for non supernatural causes. Demeter (earth goddess) being sad that her daughter has to spend a chunk of the year with Hades and thus withholds her offerings as an explanation of the seasons. Apollo took the form of a dolphin and used his magical powers to lead people from Crete to Delphi to man his temple actually reflects migrations of people who brought their religions with them. And plenty of other recurrent themes in their religious miracle stories that actually reflect common worries in the society rather than real miracles and actions of the gods.

But if in a bible class you have the starting point of nothing supernatural occurred, and ask why would people want to invent a story about resurrection, then things wont go over as well.

3/21/2006 5:12:15 PM

Quote :

"^Because the mythology itself is not tied into history."

how the hell not
its a huge part of history

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 5:15 PM. Reason : ^i was never told to assume that in my mythology class, we just read the stories]

3/21/2006 5:15:05 PM

Quote :

"I don't think public schools are the venue for "Bible Study." If you want to have a religious history class where you teach things other than just Christianity, and it is in a scholarly fashion, then that would be better."

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 5:17 PM. Reason : of course, I support the gradual elimination of public schools......]

3/21/2006 5:16:58 PM

they are examining one of the most important historical documents ever to have existed. as long as they keep it on that level, there is NO problem.

3/21/2006 5:19:01 PM

I apologize, JohnHGuth and Supplanter, I guess I don't know anything about mythology. I didn't realize that historians were arguing that the gods and goddesses of mythology actually existed.

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 5:21 PM. Reason : I'm actually not being sarcastic here.]

3/21/2006 5:20:18 PM

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 5:33 PM. Reason : that was mean, and everyone already knows it without pointing it out]

3/21/2006 5:26:37 PM

why does everyone put an extra h in your name?

2 is enough

3/21/2006 5:36:36 PM

^I got it right this time!!!

^^You've never shown a problem with being mean before, JonHGuth. Please repost it. I was outside smoking a cigarette and missed it. I think I've revealed that I have a very limited understanding of mythology. I definitely know that it is relevant to the course of history, but I don't see how you can compare Christianity to "mythology" with such ease. I mean, they both had huge impacts on the world, but the stories of mythology are not thought to be historical accounts the way the stories of Christianity are.

Perhaps we don't understand one another.

I'm always having to say "Are you suggesting..." "Are you implying..." "Surely you're not insinuating..."

Because you're rarely clear about what you believe or where you stand.

That's why I asked you this:

Quote :

"Are you implying this class should be taught like, "Okay, here's what happened in the Bible"? Because that would be Sunday school."

And back to your original point before you made me look like an ass for arguing on your terms instead of coming at it from my point of view:

Quote :

"never did i ever scientifically scrutinize anything in any mythology or history courses, why should this be different? this isn't going to be sunday school"

The history books you read have already been scrutinized. Unfortunately, teachers rarely supplement texts with original sources, but even those are scrutinized before appearing in a class. Asides from differing accounts of certain events, the Bible does not scrutinize itself. We have historians for that, and to deny that scrutiny would be a mistake.

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 6:01 PM. Reason : sss]

3/21/2006 5:46:10 PM

there are still some greek polytheist around who might give some weight to the storys of homer and hesiod, but certainly alot less of them than there are christians.

3/21/2006 5:52:55 PM

this bible class isnt going to be like a sunday school class where they say "here is how the world is created" or "hey look how jesus can work miracles, he is your savior"

the bible isnt all miracles and crazy things, theres lots of history in there

the only people that are going to be opposed to this are people that haven't actually read the bible, and whos knowledge of the bible is limited to little stories and books with cute pictures

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 6:03 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2006 5:59:53 PM

"the bible isnt all miracles and crazy things"

they could just as easily have ancient history class that used the bible as one of their sources for the non "crazy things" part of history

3/21/2006 6:07:14 PM

and lots of history classes do
this would be an optional class for students that want a more in depth look

not everyone is afraid of knowledge

3/21/2006 6:09:37 PM

Quote :

"DirtyGreek: i'm cool with it, so long as the books are scrutinized scientifically and not taken at face value as fact."

Quote :

"JonHGuth: never did i ever scientifically scrutinize anything in any mythology or history courses, why should this be different? this isn't going to be sunday school"

Quote :

"JonHGuth: this bible class isnt going to be like a sunday school class where they say "here is how the world is created" or "hey look how jesus can work miracles, he is your savior" the bible isnt all miracles and crazy things, theres lots of history in there"

Right, but without scrutiny, what's to separate history from the rest?

Furthermore, JonHGuth, perhaps the two of us are in a pseudoconflict caused by different understandings of what "scientific scrutiny" is?

3/21/2006 6:09:48 PM

yeah i dont understand what you mean by scientific scrutiny

3/21/2006 6:11:28 PM

I'm not sure what DirtyGreek meant by it. But I took it to mean that the Bible should be scrutinized, using what we know about science (geology, for example). I also felt that maybe "scientifically" refers to the idea that the Bible should be looked at with the seeming care and precision scientists employ.

That care would entail not just finding one source that supports an account in the Bible and running with it. I don't know how they do it, but historians can supposedly tell what supporting primary sources are legitimate and which ones are not.

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 6:28 PM. Reason : sss]

3/21/2006 6:27:48 PM

no other history, philosophy, literature, mythology class has to be scrutinized. (and i know that you are saying that they are scrutinized, but they are in the same way this would be)

why should this one? oh, because it says bible in the name and people are overly sensitive

3/21/2006 6:35:00 PM

And then Noah and some animals got in a big boat, and floated around on the sea, waiting for the day they could repopulate the earth...


This shit sucks even as literature. If anything, some parts of the Bible are a good trip-journal.

3/21/2006 7:00:30 PM

AND all that history of the tribes and different kingdoms... CRAZY
they just cant let kids read that without proof

3/21/2006 7:05:28 PM

I see some people need to read Issac Asimov's guide to the Bible. It's actually a very good book into the Bible, it's stories and it's corellations with history.

3/21/2006 7:40:33 PM

^does he apply psychohistorical analysis, too?

3/21/2006 7:42:49 PM

basically, to clarify, all I'm saying is that as long as it's taken as a mythical text with SOME historical merit, that's fine. If anyone tries to use it as a historical document, talking about jesus as though he definitely existed and talking as though the great flood actually happened and acting like the tower of babel story is for real, that's a problem.

3/21/2006 8:32:20 PM