Quote :

"Philly Plumbers Upset by Waterless Urinals By DEBORAH YAO, Associated Press Writer, Thu Mar 30 PHILADELPHIA - This city's hoped-for bragging rights as home of America's tallest environmentally friendly building could go down the toilet. In a city where organized labor is a force to be reckoned with, the plumbers union has been raising a stink about a developer's plans to install 116 waterless, no-flush urinals in what will be Philadelphia's biggest skyscraper. Developer Liberty Property Trust says the urinals would save 1.6 million gallons of water a year at the 57-story Comcast Center, expected to open next year. But the union put out the word it doesn't like the idea of waterless urinals — fewer pipes mean less work. The city's licensing department, whose approval is needed for waterless urinals, has not yet rendered a decision. The mayor's office has stepped in to try to save the urinals, which use a cartridge at the base to trap odors and sediment as waste passes through. It is telling the plumbers that the city's building boom will provide plenty of work for them and that even waterless urinal systems need some plumbing connections, said Stephanie Naidoff, city commerce director. Philadelphia's unions have periodically put the city in a difficult spot. For years, convention groups were canceling bookings at the Pennsylvania Convention Center because of difficulties working with six unions. New rules were established in 2003 to allow convention groups to deal instead with a middleman, a labor supplier. A few months later, the electricians union temporarily shut off power and picketed the center in a dispute with the supplier. In 2004, the MTV reality show "The Real World" briefly pulled up stakes after union workers, in a dispute over hiring practices, picketed the house the cast was to live in. The show's producers and labor leaders eventually negotiated a deal to bring the show back. Edward Keenan, the business manager of Plumbers Union Local 690, did not return calls for comment. Liberty Property Trust said only that it is "currently engaged in an administrative process with the city to obtain the necessary approvals." Waterless urinals were introduced in the early 1990s. Thousands are in use around the country, including such places as the San Diego Zoo, Walt Disney World and the Rose Bowl."

Evil Capitalists want to install Water-saving urinals. The Environmentalists vs The Union: A Democrat Politician's Nightmare.

3/31/2006 10:53:21 AM

link?

3/31/2006 10:55:49 AM

fuck a union

that said, what if some bum comes into the building and takes a shit in the waterless urinals...yeah om...some things might need to have water

3/31/2006 10:57:36 AM

we should just ban unions, right?

3/31/2006 10:57:51 AM

i work in the construction industry and i've worked with plenty of southerners and plenty of relocated northerners...most of the northerners were forced to leave connecticut or ny or nj because they couldnt find work because of the unions...so yeah fuck em...we dont really have them down here in teh construction industry...have them at the docks (Longshoremen), etc...but yeah fuck a union

3/31/2006 10:59:12 AM

Quote :

"we should just ban unions, right?"

Nope. Unions should be legal, but not recieve sanction and protection from the gov't. Business owners shouldn't be forced by gov't to negotiate with unions.

In the same vein, gov't should not be propping up corporations with subsidies, grants, uneven tax laws, and bureaucratic regulation.


story link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060331/ap_on_re_us/philly_unions_urinals

3/31/2006 11:49:33 AM

Quote :

"57-story Comcast Center"

Damn big basketball arena

3/31/2006 12:40:34 PM

Yeah, IMO, Comcast should just hire scabs and starve the union out. (if they're allowed to these days).

Fuck, I'll go up there are scab them out for a while, anyone with me?

3/31/2006 1:03:36 PM

unions, as they currently exist, are a scourge

3/31/2006 1:22:23 PM

unions provide thousands with heathcare every year.

they should have no power though. you should be happy just to be working!!11

3/31/2006 1:47:06 PM

^ If your company doesn't provide healthcare then you need to find a job that will, or one that will pay enough that you can afford your own.

Unions use their own member's dollars to finance inflated salaries, lobbying, programs that benefit the minority (daycare services, yoga classes, private functions) and good ole fashion beaurocracy -- and members have absolutely no say in a) what their money goes towards or b) whether they will or will not pay money towards the union (aside from following my healthcare advice, that is, quitting their jobs).

It's a system that is only still around because they've been around for so long. Their roots are so deeply engrained in the business of northern cities that no one can get rid of them. Even the union members that I work with admit that their union doesn't care about them, wastes their money, and ultimately has no power regarding whether or not they keep their jobs (we are going through a bankruptcy). But you can't quit the union. Although I'm not familiar with the laws, I believe that it's illegal to quit the union. If someone knows for sure, please enlighten me.

[Edited on March 31, 2006 at 3:20 PM. Reason : thanthen]

3/31/2006 3:20:05 PM

waterless toilets are alot better than you might think. that bum's shit would slide right on down

3/31/2006 3:38:22 PM

ok, then say "lets reform unions"

not "unions should not bargain, wages are 100% up to the company" or "fuck them"

3/31/2006 4:12:16 PM

I was misinformed. I didn't realize unions made money except from taking it from union members. But I guess I should thank them for that whole healthcare thing they seem to make magically appear that you speak of.

3/31/2006 4:25:16 PM

Quote :

"waterless toilets are alot better than you might think. that bum's shit would slide right on down "

having used waterless urinals i will agree that they are pretty good. they function like normal urinals and you dont have to flush them. So they're more hygenic and use less water without annoying their patrons.



However you will understand if i am extremely sceptical of a waterless version of a full on crapper.

As it stands low flow toilets are barely capable of withstanding my onslaught. With normal toilets rating right above them, and the shit-blasting ultra highflow super toilets being the top of the list.

public restrooms are no place to be stingy when it comes to fecal disposal.

3/31/2006 4:41:53 PM

super ben

it depends on the state. i doubt it is illegal to quit the union. but in some states it is illegal to quit the union AND keep your job.

3/31/2006 5:45:29 PM

Quote :

"low flow toilets are barely capable of withstanding my onslaught."

MONEY

3/31/2006 5:58:17 PM

Quote :

"But I guess I should thank them for that whole healthcare thing they seem to make magically appear that you speak of."

maybe i should have said "unions help thousands to obtain healthcare through their employers"

3/31/2006 10:13:08 PM

^ Maybe. But remember, if we didn't get company insurance we could use the higher salaries to buy our own insurance.

Also, you ignored the people that not only do not have insurance but don't have a job at all thanks to the unions.

3/31/2006 11:04:57 PM

yeah, unions could help get better pay so members can buy it on there own.

but if a company can just ignore unions, whose to say that those on the bottom will get those wages?

this is one of those issues i hate discussing with Libertarians, b/c instead of debating compromise, they would rather abolish whats being debated all together and give all ultimate power to the top of the company (or at least a lot of you would).

[Edited on March 31, 2006 at 11:18 PM. Reason : .]

3/31/2006 11:16:14 PM

Quote :

"this is one of those issues i hate discussing with Libertarians.they would ...give all ultimate power to the top of the company "

aww c'mon...we're not that bad are we?
Workers tend to forget that the job doesn't belong to them, it belongs to the business owner. It's his money that's going into payroll and he should get to decide how that money will be spent.

This post from a person on another forum sums up my thoughts on unions...

Quote :

"I don't think libertarians are generally opposed to unions, assuming the union is fully voluntary. As far as I'm aware though, this is almost never the case. Here are some points I'd make: 1) Unions almost always harass people who won't strike or replacement workers who come in during the strike. 2) The laws are normally set up so that employers are not allowed to just fire everyone and start over when they go on strike. 3) Companies are not allowed to forbid unions, which they should be allowed to in a free market. It could be a term in the employment contract. 4) Unions are just generally difficult to empathize with because of their lazy, entitlement mentality. If you've ever worked anyplace with a union, you'll know what I mean. They are all about doing the minimum possible and removing all mechanisms whereby more able employees move up the ranks more quickly. 5) Pro-union people are basically pro-monopoly in a one sided way. They want to see a labor monopoly where all the workers in a particular industry join together to artificially increase wages. If all the gas stations in a city tried to cartelize like that, people would scream bloody murder. 6) Unions go on strike always at critical moments when a company is desperate. The flip side to this is if a company waited until an employee had purchased a new home and his wife was pregnant, then threatened to fire him if he didn't take a pay cut. I don't like unions and I don't like cartels. They are both sleazy ways of attempting to eliminate competition so you can get more than your due. They probably have to be tolerated to the extent that they can maintain themselves under a free market. We don't need to encourage them though."

4/1/2006 1:00:24 AM

thats wonderful.

too bad youre stuck getting 1% of the vote every time.

4/1/2006 3:00:12 AM

Quote :

"but if a company can just ignore unions, whose to say that those on the bottom will get those wages? this is one of those issues i hate discussing with Libertarians, b/c instead of debating compromise, they would rather abolish whats being debated all together and give all ultimate power to the top of the company (or at least a lot of you would)."

Yes, because my right to work for who I want should just be compromised away. What next? I should consider compromising on my right to life?

4/1/2006 12:24:38 PM

Quote :

"The Environmentalists vs The Union: A Democrat Politician's Nightmare."

How about,

The illegal immigrants vs The Unions : A Democrat Politician's Nightmare.

4/1/2006 1:09:22 PM

I like how someone says "Give ultimate power to the top of the company" as if its a bad thing. With some safety and common decency laws in place, the ultimate power should be to the top of the company. They run the damn thing.

4/1/2006 1:42:56 PM

^because that's what the evidence shows

4/1/2006 1:45:20 PM

yawn.

Personally, I don't think that much about Unions (except teachers union) even though I agree that they can only harmful in a world of well working labor markets. Why?

BECAUSE UNION MEMBERSHIP GETS SMALLER EVERY YEAR AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL WORK FORCE!!!!!

This is a NON-ISSUE!

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE?

4/1/2006 1:55:22 PM

^ While the auto union is floundering, the teachers union grows every year.

There is very little more important to the future of our civilization than the education of our young people.

4/1/2006 5:13:12 PM

^ please to read my whole post and not just the parts in caps.

[Edited on April 1, 2006 at 7:04 PM. Reason : ``]

4/1/2006 7:02:05 PM

^ Merely reitterating what you said

4/1/2006 8:25:51 PM

Quote :

"There is very little more important to the future of our civilization than the education of our young people."

which is exactly why steps should be taken to weaken the death-grip teachers unions have on public education.

4/1/2006 11:41:13 PM

fuck unions

4/2/2006 12:06:07 AM