which one is the easiest to learn? the class with the lab is a lot of time spent so im wondering is the online version harder or what? advice on teachers would also be nice. thanks

4/10/2006 10:49:23 PM

Don't waste your time with FORTRAN. Just my opinion.

4/10/2006 11:05:35 PM

Fortran is easier, but you will be a lot less likely to use it.

4/10/2006 11:06:07 PM

Java hands down. Unless you plan on working on older comptuer systems, FORTRAN has limited use. Take it oncampus if this is your first exposure to programming ... it can be like a foreign language.

FORTRAN is the easier of the two courses though. Java will take 5-10 hours of your time per week.

4/11/2006 6:48:26 AM

If you are a nuclear engineering student take FORTRAN, well you have to anyway. Outside of that everyone else uses java or something else.

4/11/2006 9:50:40 AM

fortran is easy to learn, take it if programming is something you will never do again. when i took fortran the teacher didn't matter, its more the TA who runs your lab. our TA actually told us not to go to class that he would teach us everything we needed to know in lab.

4/11/2006 9:58:27 AM

My dad used fortran. Like 50 years ago.

4/11/2006 10:45:31 AM

fortran has nice math applications but overall java is a better language it learn

4/11/2006 11:38:42 AM

Take fortran if you ever see your self doing any numerical modeling.

4/12/2006 12:57:57 PM

java is a stupid choice IMO unless you're a CSC major. if you're an engineering major, then chances are any pogram your going to write is going to perform a calculation of some kind. since java is an interpreted language (it's not really compiled in the traditional sense), it is slow as hell and thus a bad choice for an engineer.

the reason they make engineers take FORTRAN is because just about every bit of scientific code since the dawn of computers is written in FORTRAN. people have been porting scientific libraries to other languages, but even now in 2006 tons of research-related codes are written in FORTRAN. that pretty much sucks, since fortran isnt really the best-performing thing out there, but compilers exist for most platforms.

i say it depends on your major. if you want something portable, useful, powerful then C++ would be your best choice. if you want a balance of ease of programming and portable/powerful then i say FORTRAN. Java is never the right choice unless someone is going to pay you to program in it (the only big plus for java is it's portability/ability to make web applets with ease -- you can still make browser plugins in C++ though).

Why would anyone recommend Java?

4/12/2006 11:23:33 PM

Do they even have a c++ class at State?

I recommended java because it's object oriented--more closely related to c++ which is more likely to be used. Though like you said--just learn c++.

The only reason FORTRAN is still around is because all of the old farts that still use it and companies that don't want to switch over old programs that are probably out of date anyway in terms of the numerical methods.

State is way behind the times. Look at any top 20 university they will require c/c++ . At least for the Mechanical/AE program. I learned FORTRAN and now I have to learn c++ because I went to grad school somewhere else. State's AE program better get off their ass and teach MATLAB and C++ and require it to be used in classes.

Quote :

"the reason they make engineers take FORTRAN is because just about every bit of scientific code since the dawn of computers is written in FORTRAN"

Sure but when you learn F95 can you easily read 77 or earlier--what's that punch cards? It's like another language and fuck GOTO.

Seriously, go to Wake Tech and take c++.

Besides you could learn FORTRAN in a weekend once you have general programing intuition.

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 12:22 AM. Reason : .]

4/13/2006 12:09:09 AM

FORTRAN is widely used because they run systems that work (weapon systems, satellite systems, etc). It's also very fast for numerical methods, which is important for aforementioned industries. These industries wisely do not want to fuck with expensive things that work within requirements

You have to be pretty dumb not to pick up c++ in a few weeks if you are a java programmer.

Matlab is good, too, but it's also something that can be easily picked up. The ability to pick up something new is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prior knowledge of a particular language.


(matlab and c++ were things I picked up on the job. It wasn't hard because I had a solid understanding of computer science, not because I was an expert in such and such language or tool)

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 1:59 AM. Reason : sdfsdf]

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 1:59 AM. Reason : dfsd]

4/13/2006 1:56:53 AM

Quote :

"since java is an interpreted language (it's not really compiled in the traditional sense), it is slow as hell and thus a bad choice for an engineer."

Please don't rehash the "Language A" is better or "Language B" sucks argument here ... its been done a million times over in Tech Talk without a "good" outcome.

Quote :

"State is way behind the times. Look at any top 20 university they will require c/c++ "

Look up the latest degree key for CSC and CSC230 is now a requirement. If other majors aren't teaching the knowledge and its needed for advanced courses, thats something that needs to be taken up with the individual department, not "State".

Quote :

"if you want something portable, useful, powerful then C++ would be your best choice."

CSC114 (C++) is not offered on campus at the moment unfortunately. I agree it would probably be a good course, but for a person who is taking programming for the first time and does not want a huge time commitment, may not be the best option.

[Edited on April 13, 2006 at 6:52 AM. Reason : .]

4/13/2006 6:49:27 AM

"Language B" a.k.a. Java is not the right choice for this guy, or most other people. It's not as easy to learn as FORTRAN (and this guy wants something easy). Java's strengths don't coincide with inexperienced programmers' abilities. I'm not saying Java's a bad language. I'm saying hcnguyen is never going to use it after he finishes the class. A more experienced programmer who understands the strenghts and weaknesses of Java would know when it's the right choice.

FORTRAN remains one of the dumbest languages out there. It doesn't have any of the bells and whistles you get in programming languages today (operator overrides, pointers, direct memory access, ...) It's pretty much like programming a calculator. It'd be useful for someone who is never going to take a programming course again. It's much easier to use FORTRAN as a glorified calculator, which is all the use this guy is going to get out of a single programming course.

4/13/2006 2:21:35 PM

Quote :

"Look up the latest degree key for CSC and CSC230 is now a requirement. If other majors aren't teaching the knowledge and its needed for advanced courses, thats something that needs to be taken up with the individual department, not "State"."

Quote :

"State is way behind the times. Look at any top 20 university they will require c/c++ . At least for the Mechanical/AE program."

I meant for that last sentence to apply to both preceding ones. I know, it was worded bad.

4/13/2006 4:25:39 PM