http://www.apple.com/macbook/

damn, I want one

5/16/2006 3:06:47 PM

Heh, yeah we're ordering one of the black ones to have on display. They seem pretty nice and not TOO terribly priced with education discount, depending on how you configure them.

5/16/2006 3:10:56 PM

are these laptops made from the same enamel that the ipod nanos are made from? wasn't there a huge scratch issue with them?

5/16/2006 3:21:03 PM

Looks like the same material the ibook was made from.

5/16/2006 3:31:11 PM

Yeah, that black isn't the glossy iPod black, it's a very matte black.

Looks weird clashing with the bright glossy screen, IMO. The keyboard is vastly different as well, may wanna try one out before buying.

Overall, Apple did real good. The black color is a cost premium in itself, but otherwise that's a solid machine.

Pics here:
http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1748

5/16/2006 3:42:20 PM

Yeah, they should have them at the apple store today if not next week (I think most of them already have them on display.) We'll be getting one in at the bookstore fairly soon too. Definately a try before buying thing what with the new keyboard.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2006 3:50:11 PM

A computer painted black?

A single mouse button the side of the spacebar?

WHAT WILL THEY THINK OF NEXT?!

5/16/2006 4:01:50 PM

^ Meh, it'll sell and as always you can use any standard 2+ button usb mouse. I think the big thing is that it's a 2 ghz core duo laptop coming in at 5.2 lbs and with a tiny footprint and under 1200 (1300 for the black one) education pricing. Although laptops like the DELL D620 have better graphics cards, they're slightly larger and heavier and end up being over 1500 with the 2 ghz core duo.

It's not a bad pricepoint if you want a small lightweight laptop that's also kind of trendy and has DVI out, firewire, and a built in high quality webcam.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 4:15 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2006 4:08:25 PM

I think the outside is glossy black, and the inside is matte black

that's how my iBook is, anyway

I like that they have Frontrow, iSight, and a DVI output.

5/16/2006 4:14:30 PM

Yeah, they've "uncrippled" this lineup to make up for the 12" PB vanishing. Take note though that the mini-DVI adapter isn't actually included, so if you want to attach a monitor it's $25 or so extra.

You can "right-click" by pressing 2-fingers on the trackpad...still, a split mouse click wouldn't be difficult...Apple is definitely too stubborn w/ their 1-button thing. They think 2 buttons is too complicated, yet they include a built-in Webcam that I'm sure grandma knows precisely how to operate...

Still, minor gripes aside, it's a great machine at a great pricepoint, and it'll even run Windows un-emulated as well. The only downside is the gaping reality that Apple does not have an entry-level laptop, period. That's a big market they're ignoring.

5/16/2006 4:28:01 PM

Yeah, a 1.6 ghz core duo 12-14 inch laptop for a good bit under 1000 would grab a lot of customers that a $1049+ laptop won't. Something with the same specs as the mac minis but in an actual laptop case for between 650 and 950 wouldn't be a horrible idea if they could be made fairly profitable.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 4:38 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2006 4:30:08 PM

if apple isn't making insane profits on their hardware they're really really doing something wrong.

5/16/2006 4:46:50 PM

^^^

i have the macbok pro with built in web cam

all you have to do is click an icon and the program opens up, click another button and it'll take a pic

want to chat with someone? just click video chat & you're in

if grandma has a hard time operating the webcam she probably has a hard time figuring out how to plug it in too

5/16/2006 5:30:24 PM

I was being sarcastic. The biggest problem grandma actually has is "how do I get that menu to come up beside the folder when I click the right-mouse button?"

5/16/2006 6:22:12 PM

good thing they made the 2-button-ish mighty mouse standard then.

5/16/2006 6:30:35 PM

Pretty sure this thread is addressing an Apple laptop

5/16/2006 7:43:34 PM

which you can still use any 2 button mouse with. I don't even use the touchpad that comes with my dell laptop. it's really not a big issue. if someone actually had a hard time using the two fingered right click, then they probably are going to be frustrated by a touchpad in general anyways.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2006 7:51:14 PM

throw in a better video card, and it would be the perfect machine.

5/16/2006 8:06:58 PM

^ But then it'd be a MacBook Pro.

Something's gotta give

5/16/2006 8:19:15 PM

yeah, even the light weight under 14" dells have comparable video cards.

5/16/2006 8:47:59 PM

I don't understand why someone would buy that when they can get a Dell Inspiron E1405 with essentially the same hardware for half the price. Surely just the name is not the premium so what is the big difference?

5/16/2006 10:15:23 PM

wait - the black one is $200 more than the white one but the only difference is 20GB more storage? weird

-ZiP!-

5/16/2006 10:19:42 PM

Quote :

"I don't understand why someone would buy that when they can get a Dell Inspiron E1405 with essentially the same hardware for half the price. Surely just the name is not the premium so what is the big difference? "

link?

5/16/2006 10:26:51 PM

^^ Yeah, basically Apple is giving you an extra 20GB and a "rare" color.
Apple has been known to charge more for a more limited product (Grey limited Edition iBook...during the Clamshell era).

5/16/2006 10:30:51 PM

Quote :

"I don't understand why someone would buy that when they can get a Dell Inspiron E1405 with essentially the same hardware for half the price. Surely just the name is not the premium so what is the big difference? "

That's not true at all. A dell E1405 with a screen with the same resolution, a 2.0 ghz core duo processor and after education discount is 1430.88 before tax and shipping. An apple macbook (white) with almost the same exact hardware except a built in isight and 3 years of apple care is 1382 after education discount.

A dell E1405 with screen upgrade (making it comparable to the macbook) and the same hardware as the 1.86 ghz model macbook costs 1254.88 after education discount. The comparable apple (still having a built in isight and firewire and bluetooth) costs 1232.00. Apple charges no shipping and dell will instant-rebate your shipping for 3-5 day rates (you still pay sales tax on both though.) As you can see, they're both actually fairly comparable in price for similar configurations.

The difference here is that the macbook has the built in isight and bluetooth standard as well as better customer service (according to consumer reports.)

I find it interesting that the comparable high end macbook is actually cheaper than the dell you mentioned. The mid range configuration shows the dell option being slightly less expensive, the small price difference is really not mentionable. It's certainly not half the price.

I got prices for these comparisons by configuring the dell e1405 with the wxga+ resolution screen. Please note that the apple screen is actually WXGA but is much brighter and easier to read in general (yeah I've seen both.) Without the screen upgrade, the comparable dell's come in at 1380 for the 2.0ghz version and 1182 for the 1.83 ghz version. This is margianlly cheaper than the apple at the high end, and somewhat more significantly cheaper at the low end. 2 dollars is not a lot to pay for a good webcam...

Prices were all pulled from dell.com/ncstate and apple.com/store (then clicking on the education section and signing in as an ncstate student)

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 10:39 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2006 10:31:57 PM

Then you add in the value of superior mac software and it's not even close.

5/16/2006 10:38:32 PM

^^ You forgot to mention the MacBook can run Windows XP *and* OS X. At least to me, that's valuable.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 11:11 PM. Reason : ']

5/16/2006 11:10:56 PM

Yeah, but buying an OEM copy of xp would add another 75-100 bucks if you weren't able to download it from the microsoft alliance stuff.

5/16/2006 11:13:11 PM

Quote :

"That's not true at all. A dell E1405 with a screen with the same resolution, a 2.0 ghz core duo processor and after education discount is 1430.88 before tax and shipping. An apple macbook (white) with almost the same exact hardware except a built in isight and 3 years of apple care is 1382 after education discount."

Hold up... a 14" Widescreen with 2.0 duo core is $1099 on Dell.com right now (compared to $1299 for the Apple) and this doesn't include grabbing any of the numerous coupon discounts out there that could easily chunk of a couple hundred. The 1.83 versions are $899 at Dell and $1099 on Apple. The dell gets you higher resolution for just $25-50 more, if you want it. Bluetooth on the Dell adds $49 but its still $150 lower than the Apple (and remember this is without using extra Dell coupons or anything).

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/entnb_e1405

Just looked back through the recent FatWallet threads and this same setup (2.0, Bluetooth, WXGA+ screen, 1Gb RAM, DVD burner, etc) for about $900. If you want more Warranty then it would cost around $1100. Heck, you could get the 15" E1505 with a 256Mb ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 and other same stats for under $1000 too.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 11:36 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2006 11:15:50 PM

I don't see it. I configure the laptop through your link and I get the same prices I listed above.
The 2.0 ghz duo is a 300 dollar upgrade on that dell by the way.

Make sure you're configuring the one with the same system bus speed, memory speed, and optical drive as the macbook as well. don't look at JUST the processor speed...

Also, my prices reflected 3 year warranties for both and education pricing for both. 1299 is NOT the apple education pricing.

I am able to configure a dell with 3 year basic warranty, same basic specs as the apple (except bluetooth -maybe I'm missing the option, isight, and firewire) for 1341. No screen upgrade this time. That widens the gap to 40 bucks. Yeah, you're right about that huge price gap.

Also note that the macbook comes with 667 mhz ddr memory, while the dell comes with slower ram standard. If you create configurations (through your link) where both have the same ram, 3 year warranties, and the same processor, burner and HDD's... 1454.18 for the dell... 1472 for the apple. Again, the pricing is comprable.

I'll concede the obvious, you can configure a light weight decent laptop for far less with dell. If however you configure two laptops with as identical specs as possible, espescially towards the higher end, they come out almost even. Now if you could buy an apple or a dell for almost the same price.. that means dell's really raping you.

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 11:38 PM. Reason : ]

5/16/2006 11:16:50 PM

Quote :

"Surely just the name is not the premium so what is the big difference?"

yeah, you are forgetting what SouthPaw said..... the real reasons Macs are different that PCs (i.e. not because of pretty cases) - they come with OS X.

5/17/2006 2:07:49 AM

^ Yeah...and the fact that they come w/ iLife. Honestly, XP doesn't come with anything close to iLife. I mean, if you want to be productive AT ALL on XP, you better head off and buy the Office Suite ASAP. Of course, most people end up with it anyway (even on Macs), but at least Apple gives you some great *valuable* software out the box.

5/17/2006 11:29:20 AM

i've done a couple google's for this, but run across nothing yet.

Is anyone aware of a hardware+firmware/driver hack to convert a 1-button Mac laptop into a 2-button mouse.
And i'm talking about a real hardware hack - i.e. removing the case, pulling out the trackpad, carefully sawing the button in half, perhaps installing a new clicker underneath or some additional hardware, reflashing the firmware or reinstalling some drivers, and ending up with a 2-button mousepad.

I know this is a really long shot, but it's got to be possible. With the advent of the new Macbook, i'll probably buy my wife one of these, and myself a Pro later this year. I have a mini now with a normal Logitech mouse, and i'm fully aware that 1) you can plug in any mouse into the Macbook (or any Mac), 2) you can Cmd+click for right click, and 3) you can 2-finger click a trackpad for right click. But seriously, Apple is being so fucking stubborn by not putting in a 2 button trackpad button it's driving me crazy. Somewhere, someone has to be able to figure out how to turn the 1 button trackpad button into 2. Of course i'm sure there's barely a cubic millimeter to spare inside that case, but it has to be possible

5/17/2006 5:56:46 PM

I like this idea ^

If you find a reasonable solution, please post. I'm due a new lappy in 6 or so months and these will def. be on the short list

5/17/2006 10:02:45 PM

Quote :

"Amazon has the Apple MacBook MA254LL/A 13.3" Notebook PC (1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo, 512 MB RAM, 60 GB Hard Drive, DVD-ROM/CD-RW Drive) for $1100 - $100MIR = $1000 w/ free shipping. No tax for most."

http://www.slickdeals.net/#p7524

5/18/2006 9:52:52 AM

^^^ man, there's no way I would hack up a brand new laptop

ctrl + click isn't that bad once you get used to it

[Edited on May 18, 2006 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ]

5/18/2006 10:58:50 AM

Or download SideTrack (http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/index.html)

Doesn't currently support the MacBook, but should be very soon.

I couldn't operate my Mac without this program (or an external mouse) because Ctrl Click just isn't a viable solution for me

5/18/2006 11:08:26 AM

hmm, looks cool.
if i'm not mistaken though, starting with the new Pros, and maybe even before, you can scroll vertically and horizontally by just dragging 2 fingers instead of 1.

5/18/2006 11:31:43 AM

^ true

but ive read where some people find it awkward to use 2 fingers to scroll, and prefer to have a designated scroll area on the side of the trackpad

alternatively, i think there are firmware 'hacks' you can download to enable the 2-finger scrolling capabilities on older powerbooks

but i think sidetrack is best for it's right-click capabilities (i have mine set to right click when i tap the touchpad)

5/18/2006 12:12:22 PM

ah, TAB plugs sidetracker today too, and they point out another right-click option built into the new Macs - 2-finger click and hold.
http://www.theappleblog.com/2006/05/18/right-click/

5/18/2006 1:35:57 PM

Quote :

"if i'm not mistaken though, starting with the new Pros, and maybe even before, you can scroll vertically and horizontally by just dragging 2 fingers instead of 1."

That was definitely a feature in the last generation of PowerBooks. Not sure if it was present before them, though.

5/18/2006 10:28:14 PM

this is nice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6ckjy-gdY
I've never seen a laptop quite like that before. To upgrade the RAM or HDD, you remove the battery first. Then the RAM and HDD are accessible via slots on the inner edge of the battery bay. That is really cool ("out of the box thinking", if you will), and keeps the bottom of the case looking nice and smooth.

5/19/2006 8:54:07 AM

http://www.apple.com/retail/fifthavenue/gallery/index.html Amazing...

5/20/2006 6:57:34 PM

that place

is fuckin awesome

5/20/2006 7:08:16 PM

the line to get in was already super long by 4PM yesterday when i got out of work... by about 8, it was snaking down multiple blocks. the employees were clapping each time customers left via the elevator, and tons of people with cameras were interviewing people.

at 4PM:


-ZiP!-

5/20/2006 8:22:21 PM

not sure if i understand why it's open 24 hours, but the layout is incredible. I love the glass staircase ascending into the glass cube.

5/20/2006 11:46:37 PM

i don't see what the big deal is. sure it's pretty, and interesting, but 10 minutes later, who cares

[Edited on May 21, 2006 at 1:03 AM. Reason : it's a store]

5/21/2006 12:58:50 AM

is there any other major company that does shit like this? Apple Jobs has a pretty unique way of doing business. It's admirable.

5/21/2006 1:14:17 AM

well if it werent for good looks people would probably realize they are buying a steaming piece of shit

5/21/2006 10:55:16 PM

amazing building

5/21/2006 11:17:31 PM