http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/18/dobbs.july19/index.html

discuss this article

This does not belong to Soap box because i am looking for the point of views of average people, not politics freaks

7/19/2006 2:08:19 PM

the average person doesn't care...

7/19/2006 2:10:47 PM

Quote :

"i am looking for the point of views of average people, not politics freaks"

I've been trying desperately to avoid thinking about the whole mess as much as possible. Not because I don't care, but because I care too much, and not being able to do a damn thing is horribly depressing.

7/19/2006 2:10:48 PM

The average person doesn't care as long as he isn't blown up by some twisted creation of Allah.

7/19/2006 2:12:22 PM

so the average person doesnt see a correlation between the US policy in the middle east and Sept 11?

7/19/2006 2:14:34 PM

which country were you born in again - what is your nationality?

7/19/2006 2:15:32 PM

The average person likes to live freely

7/19/2006 2:15:48 PM

US: not so smart about stem cell research

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/19/stemcells.veto/index.html

....

seriously though... i think we rely on Isreal as a mainstay of western influence on the middle east. That is why we throw them more support than surrounding countries. Supporting Isreal has a much larger impact on the area than supporting Lebanon. imo

7/19/2006 2:28:16 PM

^ thats just bush not being smart

i am talking about the US policy towards the middle east for the bast 60 years

7/19/2006 2:34:19 PM

Quote :

"i think we rely on Isreal as a mainstay of western influence on the middle east."

7/19/2006 2:37:16 PM

^ what do you mean by that?most middle eastern countries dont even recognize israel, most western influence in the middle east comes from the US and europe

7/19/2006 2:44:17 PM

well, why would the US support Syria or Iran. These are the same countries trying to blow up innocent people on American soil.

You don't see Israel talking smack to the US.

7/19/2006 2:46:51 PM

i am not saying the US should support Iran and syria.

I am saying the the US shouldnt be very biased towards israel like it is now

[Edited on July 19, 2006 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2006 2:52:39 PM

Well, Israel is an ally.

7/19/2006 2:53:25 PM

yes we should ^^

they don't use the funds we give them to send terrorists over here and blow up our buildings

[Edited on July 19, 2006 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2006 2:53:39 PM

Quote :

"most middle eastern countries dont even recognize israel"

true, they don't recognize Isreal... but Isreal is there to keep them in check regardless.

7/19/2006 2:54:15 PM

how is israel keeping them in check?

7/19/2006 2:55:59 PM

What did Iraq do during the Gulf War? Train its missiles on Israel. Israel is an ally...we need to be vocal in its support.

If you wanna be an ally, stop spreading terror and do as we say.

7/19/2006 2:56:03 PM

Quote :

" If you wanna be an ally, stop spreading terror and do as we say."

jesus christ.

7/19/2006 2:57:42 PM

also...

sort of think of this way. Lebanon is the bum on the street. Give Lebanon money, support an alcoholic Hezbollah. Giving Isreal money is more like giving money to an organized charity.

7/19/2006 2:59:28 PM

Quote :

"jesus christ."

You mean Mohammad

7/19/2006 3:00:10 PM

Quote :

"how is israel keeping them in check?"

http://www.cnn.com/

[Edited on July 19, 2006 at 3:02 PM. Reason : i think it's pretty obvious]

7/19/2006 3:00:36 PM

I am not saying we should support or give money to ANYBODY.

the whole point of this thread is to discuss, why can't we simply be fair in the middle east. Why cant we be just smart about this, and not take israel's side all the time and then wonder why we are hated so much, and why we have planes crashing into buildings.

7/19/2006 3:01:47 PM

agreed, i think we should look into being fiscally neutral... i thought you were leaning towards more funding for lebanon

7/19/2006 3:04:02 PM

The average American citizen isn't smart about any part of the world, including our own country.

7/19/2006 3:04:02 PM

How can we be fair, or rather how are we not being fair?

Anything happens in the Middle East, those bozos train their missiles on Israel.

They kill innocents...are adamant about supporting terrorism and developing WMDs.

You can't sit at a dinner table with no food.

7/19/2006 3:04:45 PM

No foreign aid to anyone period. Let Israel fend for itself, and if they get crushed so be it.

Quote :

"If you wanna be an ally, stop spreading terror and do as we say."

lol. Are you trolling or serious? I'm not good at detecting sarcasm over the internet.

7/19/2006 3:10:29 PM

no aid for anyone? Are you serious? How is the US to preserve its interests in the region without having strong allies?

And no, I wasn't trolling. You can't expect to be an ally and receive money if your Govt is out of control and/or hates the same people giving you aid.

7/19/2006 3:12:08 PM

so you are saying, we have alliese to preserve our intrests in the middle east, which is Oil I presume, then shouldnt we rather look out for the states that have oil, like saudia arabia?

7/19/2006 3:16:32 PM

^that post is horrendous.

7/19/2006 3:27:43 PM

i think we should nuke the middle east.

7/19/2006 4:28:25 PM

Quote :

"which country were you born in again - what is your nationality?"

7/19/2006 4:29:38 PM

the bible tells us to protect israel, unfortunately.

7/19/2006 4:37:13 PM

^winner

that is the only reason we defend them

the jews are "gods chosen people"

obviously the guy who wrote that article needs to educate himself on the religion he probably belongs to.


talk about learning nothing from history




most religious scholars also say that there will never be peace in the middle east. history supports that doesnt it?

[Edited on July 19, 2006 at 4:45 PM. Reason : . dobbs sucks]

7/19/2006 4:40:05 PM

Quote :

" most religious scholars also say that there will never be peace in the middle east. history supports that doesnt it? "

yeah. pretty much.

7/19/2006 6:13:20 PM

Quote :

"I am not saying we should support or give money to ANYBODY. the whole point of this thread is to discuss, why can't we simply be fair in the middle east. Why cant we be just smart about this, and not take israel's side all the time and then wonder why we are hated so much, and why we have planes crashing into buildings. "

well I mean Israel is a democracy of european people and they don't practice violence like barbarians and don't have a sizable minority that would prefer most of our population burn in hell

I'd say somewhat of a bias is expectable but I'd rather we stay out of more

7/19/2006 6:57:08 PM

its fucking xenophobe lou dobbs

what kind of comments are you looking for???


also its an editorial, not an article...

7/19/2006 8:15:03 PM

average people care about gas prices

[/thread]

7/19/2006 8:21:56 PM

If you look at Israel's history, you will realize that they are the only country in the middle east that doesn't do stupid shit without provocation. Also, lou dobbs is an idiot.

And not to mention the "holy land" thing....At this point, if Israel falls, the amount of "war" in the middle east would increase exponentially since just about every major religion wants control of Israel. So yes, Israel is (fortunately) strong enough to keep the rest of those countries in check.

7/22/2006 3:20:30 AM

We give way more to China every year than 2.5 billion. Does that make us a communist loving nation?

If you want to BLAME someone for all the shit happening in the middle east, blame the fucking British Empire that set the country borders for the modern middle east about a century ago. That single handedly caused the living shitfest we have today.

And we back Israel BECAUSE they are one of the few middle eastern countries with a real economy (not oil production dependent), with a strong central government, that isn't directly affected by the whims of their religious constituants.

7/22/2006 8:06:01 AM

Quote :

"so the average person doesnt see a correlation between the US policy in the middle east and Sept 11?"

Sure, I can see a correlation between anything A and anything B. How STRONG of a correlation the relationship is really is a matter of debate in the Soap Box.

Quote :

"No foreign aid to anyone period. "

There's a lot of think tanks and research on US isolationism. Have fun debating it in the Soap Box.

In summary:

Quote :

"average people care about gas prices"

,

Quote :

"the average person doesn't care..."

, + CNN reporting is generally poor.

7/22/2006 9:58:28 AM

Move Israel to some other part of the world, let the Arabs have the current Israel, I don't think Jesus will mind.

7/22/2006 10:10:34 AM

Quote :

"Move Israel to some other part of the world, let the Arabs have the current Israel, I don't think Jesus will mind."

This is the best plan.

7/22/2006 11:30:19 AM

Hey, I know how extremist Muslims kill innocents and blow up things, but the ignorance in this thread is appalling:

Quote :

"they don't use the funds we give them to send terrorists over here and blow up our buildings"

No, but they use those funds to uproot ancient Palestinian villages, olive trees, and citrus trees.

Quote :

"Giving Isreal money is more like giving money to an organized charity."

See above.

Quote :

"well I mean Israel is a democracy of european people and they don't practice violence like barbarians "

See above.

Quote :

"If you look at Israel's history, you will realize that they are the only country in the middle east that doesn't do stupid shit without provocation. "

See above.

JESUS, THE SHEER IGNORANCE IS DISGUSTING.

All of you need to look into Israel's history and current practices.

Read about the massacres they committed in refugee camps, killing thousands of men, women, and children. Heck, SHARON was found to be personally responsible for one such massacre by the ISRAELI SUPREME COURT.... and he became Prime Minister!

Read about how they committed terrorist acts against the British before their independence, because they thought the British were going to curtail Jewish immigration.

Read about how Israel is the only country to have killed a UN envoy [and needless to say, gotten away with it].

Read about their much publicised torture cells where even women and children are subject to it.

Read about how they rope in Palestinians to become their informants: they take pictures of Palestinian women in clothing store trial rooms and then threaten to release them unless the brother/father/son becomes an informant. This is all Israeli policy.

Read about how they kill Western and even Israeli peaceful protestors.

Read about how they keep on confiscating Palestinian land without compensation, and destroying their centuries old olive and citrus trees.

Read about the terrorism of Jewish settlers against Palestinians who live among their midst.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

7/22/2006 11:57:51 AM

Let's see where to start.

Quote :

"President Harry Truman took about 20 minutes to recognize the state of Israel when it declared independence in 1948. Since then, more than 58 years of war, terrorism and blood-letting have led to the events of the past week."

I agree that it contributed to the war by drawing the United States into the political picture, but they have been killing eachother in that region for a VERY long time.

Quote :

"And the U.S. government, which wants no part of a cease-fire until Israel is given every opportunity to rescue its kidnapped soldiers and destroy as many Hezbollah and Hezbollah armaments as possible, urges caution in the interest of preserving a nascent and fragile democratic government in Lebanon. Could we be more conflicted?"

I'm not sure how we are conflicted. Eliminating Hezbollah would help contribute to a more stable democracy.

Quote :

"This kind of geopolitical inconsistency and shortsightedness has contributed to the Arab-Israeli conflict that the Western world seems content to allow to perpetuate endlessly."

They don't fight more just because we give one country more money. If anything that simply contributes to the hatred towards the west.

Quote :

"That has been sufficient bloodshed for United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan and British Prime Minister Tony Blair to join in the call for an international security force, ignoring the fact that a U.N. force is already in Southern Lebanon, having failed to secure the border against Hezbollah's incursions and attacks and the murder and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers."

I agree and so does the United States. That's why we are letting them finally fight it out to a decisive end.

Quote :

"As our airwaves fill with images and sounds of exploding Hezbollah rockets and Israeli bombs, this seven-day conflict has completely displaced from our view another war in which 10 Americans and more than 300 Iraqis have died during the same week. And it is a conflict now of more than three years duration that has claimed almost 15,000 lives so far this year alone."

It has displaced our view because this has the very serious potential to draw Syria and Iran into the conflict. And another thing, I doubt very seriously that the writer of this article cares any more for Iraqis than he does for Lebanese. One thing I hate is when they throw numbers into stuff to try and make them sound worse than they are. America has lost 2500 roughly in 4 years of fighting. Any idea how many we lost in World War 2?

I don't really agree with this article at all. I'm a left-leaning moderate, you can call me Democrat if you want. But I support Israel's campaign here and think they should have done this 20 years ago. The middle east hates us for 2 reasons: Extreme difference in religions and the fact that we stick our noses in their business.

7/22/2006 2:56:40 PM

Quote :

"JESUS, THE SHEER IGNORANCE IS DISGUSTING. All of you need to look into Israel's history and current practices. Read about the massacres they committed in refugee camps, killing thousands of men, women, and children. Heck, SHARON was found to be personally responsible for one such massacre by the ISRAELI SUPREME COURT.... and he became Prime Minister! "

Please link us to these.

Quote :

" Read about how they committed terrorist acts against the British before their independence, because they thought the British were going to curtail Jewish immigration. "

Why don't you read about how every country in the middle east committed terrorist acts against the British? Israel is no more guilty of rebellion for independence than any country in the region.

Quote :

" Read about how Israel is the only country to have killed a UN envoy [and needless to say, gotten away with it]. "

Link please. Also, quite a few UN envoys have been killed over the years by rebels, governments in flux, and the such. If this happened during the 50's when Israel was fighting for independence, I once again don't see how it's any different.

Quote :

" Read about their much publicised torture cells where even women and children are subject to it. "

So does every other country with a real military. When you are dealing with 12 years suicide bombers and women housing criminals, that's the reality. The reason Israel gets shit is because they got exposed for it. The US has done it for a hundred years, Japan tortured their captives till death, as does China, as does Syria, Iran, Turkey, and a number of other nations.

Quote :

" Read about how they rope in Palestinians to become their informants: they take pictures of Palestinian women in clothing store trial rooms and then threaten to release them unless the brother/father/son becomes an informant. This is all Israeli policy. "

This is anecdotal at best. And pretty retarded to even intimate that this is some primary means of roping informants. I garauntee you this might have happened once or twice, at best. At I'd like to know the source of the story.

Quote :

" Read about how they kill Western and even Israeli peaceful protestors. Read about how they keep on confiscating Palestinian land without compensation, and destroying their centuries old olive and citrus trees. Read about the terrorism of Jewish settlers against Palestinians who live among their midst."

Because no other country has ever killed protestors, they are the only one You know, particularly every country around them that has slaughtered protestors multiple times.

Confiscating Palestinian land? Do you not even know what the damn conflict is about? Israel claims the land as theirs, always has. That's what war is about, like it or not. As far as terrorism goes, it's not terrorism so much as it's fear and racism. I'd be scared to death of palestinians too, after their decades of suicide bombing of innocent civilians and public areas, and I'd probably be prone to violence and hatred of their brethren who make no attempts to stop such action.

I love the super liberal propaganda though.

7/22/2006 3:54:58 PM

Quote :

"I've been trying desperately to avoid thinking about the whole mess as much as possible. Not because I don't care, but because I care too much, and not being able to do a damn thing is horribly depressing."

seriously pathetic

7/22/2006 5:44:08 PM

i dont understand the jews being gods chosen people thing...is it a christian thing or something?

7/22/2006 5:56:39 PM

You mean, you can't hang in soapbox so you want to shit up the lounge as king of the hill. Good job, do you want your street cred now or later?

7/22/2006 6:32:27 PM

ok seriously folks, this is lounge.....lets save the trolling for chitchat plzkthx

i dont understand the jews being gods chosen people thing...is it a christian thing or something?

7/22/2006 6:39:22 PM