Quote :

"By SONJA BARISIC Associated Press Writer NORFOLK, Va. A judge ruled Friday that a 16-year-old boy fighting to use alternative treatment for his cancer must report to a hospital by Tuesday and accept treatment that doctors deem necessary, the family's attorney said. The judge also found Starchild Abraham Cherrix's parents were neglectful for allowing him to pursue alternative treatment of a sugar-free, organic diet and herbal supplements supervised by a clinic in Mexico, lawyer John Stepanovich said. Jay and Rose Cherrix of Chincoteague on Virginia's Eastern Shore must continue to share custody of their son with the Accomack County Department of Social Services, as the judge had previously ordered, Stepanovich said. The parents were devastated by the new order and planned to appeal, the lawyer said. Stepanovich said he will ask a higher court on Monday to stay enforcement of the order, which requires the parents to take Abraham to Children's Hospital of the King's Daughters in Norfolk and to give the oncologist their written legal consent to treat their son for Hodgkin's disease. "I want to caution all parents of Virginia: Look out, because Social Services may be pounding on your door next when they disagree with the decision you've made about the health care of your child," Stepanovich said. Phone calls to the Cherrix home went unanswered. The lawyer declined to release the ruling, saying juvenile court Judge Jesse E. Demps has sealed much of the case. Social Services officials have declined to comment, citing privacy laws. After three months of chemotherapy last year made him nauseated and weak, Abraham rejected doctors' recommendations to go through a second round when he learned early this year that his Hodgkin's disease, a cancer of the lymph nodes, was active again. A social worker then asked a judge to require the teen to continue conventional treatment. In May, the judge issued a temporary order finding Abraham's parents neglectful and awarding partial custody to the county, with Abraham continuing to live at home with his four siblings. "

Kid has cancer

Kid got real sick from chemo

Kid cancer went into remission for a short while

Cancer came back

Kid said no to chemo, did research on alt. methods, parents backed his decision

Doctor didn't like fact kid said no

Doctor whined to social services

social serivces took it to court

idiot judge ruled in favor of social services

Judge needs to be smacked for a BAD decision

One more freedom gone........

7/22/2006 9:13:04 AM

C'mon Virginia, let Darwin win.

7/22/2006 9:14:39 AM

that's some bullshit.

7/22/2006 9:17:54 AM

Shit like this pisses me off.

I hate doctors >_< Well, for the most part.

7/22/2006 9:59:20 AM

Can we please address the fact that this is a kid named Starchild who believes an "organic" diet and "alternative therapies" are the best ways to fight cancer? The real outrage here is that the judge didn't decide to let the dumb fucker take his chances.

[Edited on July 22, 2006 at 11:24 AM. Reason : Shivan Bird feels me.]

7/22/2006 11:24:25 AM

Haha, wow. I'd honestly let the kid try it. Maybe he'd die happier instead of sick on chemo.

7/22/2006 11:40:13 AM

7/22/2006 12:20:36 PM

Starchild Abraham Cherrix

7/22/2006 12:22:51 PM

Probably the correct legal decision. Obviously the parents are not doing what is in his best interest; by taking him off real medical treatment and putting him on a "sugar free organic diet and herbal supplements", that really amounts to child neglect.

Quote :

""I want to caution all parents of Virginia: Look out, because Social Services may be pounding on your door next when they disagree with the decision you've made about the health care of your child," Stepanovich said. "

No, just if you are making irrational decisions that threaten your child's life.

7/22/2006 1:34:36 PM

CHEMOTHERAPY MAKES YOU FEEL SICK?

HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7/22/2006 1:40:20 PM

what the fuck do these "doctors" know, anyway. it's not like they went to school

7/22/2006 1:44:55 PM

^^^ I don't buy it. It may be that they're taking him off real medical treatment but at the same time it appears that's what the kid chose. Don't people have a right to their own health decisions regardless of what the doctors think? Obviously previous laws say yes as even despite this ruling they still need to sign a consent form. Perhaps he will die much sooner now but perhaps the kid also feels that spending months feeling like a pile of walking shit is less preferable than dying sooner.

Furthermore while chemo often does work or help it doesn't always work. It's not a cure and it's not a sure thing, it's merely the best treatment we have right now. But does that mean it's neglect to not get that treatment? If so is everyone who can't afford or chooses not to pay for the best treatment they can get beign neglectful?

Do I agree that the kid is being stupid? Sure. But it's his right to be stupid and the state sure as fuck doesn't have the right to force the kid to under go ANY medical procedure.

7/22/2006 5:29:05 PM

Quote :

"Don't people have a right to their own health decisions regardless of what the doctors think?"

According to the law, kids are not old enough or informed enough to make their own health decisions. It's up to the parents to provide adequate health care to their children, and if they fail to do that the state will step in and take custody.

It would be pretty cut-and-dry if the kid was 5 years old. Because he is almost an adult, it adds a little complexity to the issue.

7/22/2006 6:01:38 PM

Quote :

"supervised by a clinic in Mexico,"

Quote :

"C'mon Virginia, let Darwin win."

7/22/2006 8:34:29 PM

i like how the state is FORCING THEM to sign a legal consent form. Anyone else see the irony in that?

7/22/2006 8:47:24 PM

^^^ So the question is, is it adequate health care? Again chemo is not a sure thing, and it does have negative health effects. Is choosing a method of care which is non standard or not the best form of care neglect? If the kid is happy being a (relatively) normal kid vs having no hair and feeling like crap for months at a time (and potentialy for multiple treatments over many years) is that neglect? If parents don't feed their kids perfectly balanced meals is that neglect.

7/22/2006 11:11:57 PM

^ good questions.

7/22/2006 11:16:05 PM

Quote :

"If the kid is happy being a (relatively) normal kid vs having no hair and feeling like crap for months at a time (and potentialy for multiple treatments over many years) is that neglect? If parents don't feed their kids perfectly balanced meals is that neglect."

I don't think the options are being a normal kid v. being on chemo.

I think the options are being a relatively normal kid who is far more likely to die v. being on chemo with a much greater chance at survival.

As for the effectiveness of the chemo, it really depends on the type of cancer he has. There are some cancers that, at this point, have treatments with near 100% success rates. There are still cancers, too, where any treatment at all is just grasping at straws. If there have been any peer reviewed studies on the, uh, sugar-free approach, it would be a good basis for comparison, as I'm sure whatever cancer treatment this boy would receive, unless it's experimental, has been studied at length.

I'm of the mind that people like Christian Scientists who refuse treatment for easily treatable things for their children are clearly ill equipped to make those decisions and should not be allowed to kill their kids just because they call it religion. But that's another discussion.

7/22/2006 11:49:49 PM

(bullcrap)

7/25/2006 1:06:12 AM

UPDATE:

Quote :

"NORFOLK, Va. (AP) -- A 16-year-old cancer patient was headed to court Tuesday with his lawyers to try to block a judge's order requiring him to report to a hospital the same day for treatment as doctors deem necessary. A juvenile court judge on Monday denied a request by lawyers for Starchild Abraham Cherrix and his parents to stay his order pending an appeal in a higher court, said John Stepanovich, attorney for Jay and Rose Cherrix. Lawyers also asked the Accomack County Circuit Court to take over the case and grant the stay, and a hearing was set for noon Tuesday in that court, Stepanovich said. Abraham and his parents will appear at the hearing with their lawyers, Stepanovich said. He said the Circuit Court was aware that the order required Abraham to be at Children's Hospital of the King's Daughters in Norfolk - about 80 miles from the courthouse - by 1 p.m. Tuesday. "I'll fight until I do die. I'm not going to let it go," Abraham said Monday by phone from his home in Chincoteague on Virginia's Eastern Shore. "I would rather die healthy and strong and in my house than die in a hospital bed, bedridden and unable to even open my eyes," said Abraham, who was so weakened by three months of chemotherapy last year that at times he could barely walk. He refused a second round of chemotherapy when he learned early this year that his Hodgkin's disease, a cancer of the lymph nodes, was active again, choosing instead to go on a sugar-free, organic diet and take herbal supplements under the supervision of a clinic in Mexico. A social worker then asked a judge to require the teen to continue conventional treatment. "I've got nothing to lose by what I'm doing," Abraham said. "I truly do believe that this (alternative treatment) is going to cure me." Also Monday, Virginia Attorney General Bob McDonnell filed a brief in support of a stay. "The attorney general believes Abraham Cherrix deserves the right to appeal this decision to the Circuit Court prior to his undergoing medical treatment," said J. Tucker Martin, spokesman for McDonnell. The family is legally entitled to a new trial in Circuit Court, said Stepanovich, who said he also would appeal to higher courts if necessary. "If we're forced to go through with the order, then there's no way to undo the chemotherapy and radiation and essentially that would moot our statutory right to appeal," he said. Abraham's father said he was confident that "a judge somewhere will stop this madness that's going on." If a stay is not granted, the family will "search our consciences and do what's right," Jay Cherrix said. In his order Friday, Judge Jesse E. Demps also found Jay and Rose Cherrix neglectful for allowing their son to pursue alternative treatment. He required them to continue sharing custody of Abraham with the Accomack County Department of Social Services, as he previously had ordered. Social Services officials have declined to comment, citing privacy laws. Parents don't always know what is medically best for their children, said Art Caplan, chairman of the Department of Medical Ethics and director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania. "At the end of the day, the government's obligation is to protect the interests of those not quite old enough yet to really make their own choices," Caplan said. "If this was a 25-year-old who said I didn't want to do this, there would be no case, no issue, no story." However, the judge's order could be difficult to enforce, Caplan said. "I don't think they're going to want to shackle Abraham to the table and try to give him chemotherapy," he said. "If he's uncooperative, he could wind up not getting treated. It's hard for me to imagine the state police holding him in a straight jacket." "

I hope they issue a stay....it has become a bitter debate here in VA

7/25/2006 8:14:28 AM

actually there was a slew of research in diet based treatments of cancer, cutting out refined foods, fats, meats and sugars does appear to help

i guess none of you read Death Be Not Proud in high school


it's about this kid, the son of journalist John Gunther, who had a brain tumor and tried various therapies, this being one of them.... in the 1950s

7/25/2006 8:51:15 AM

Its easy to tell who has 'experienced' (via a loved one) chemo in this thread and who hasn't. Some of you are basic spineless idiots.

7/25/2006 9:16:57 AM

I think Hodgkins is pretty curable with chemo. His odds are very good if he gets the treatment. There are four stages of the the disease and the worst stage still has a 80-85% survival rate for 5 years without cancer. Sometimes cancers take more than one stage of chemo.

Does he not realize that this cancer will eat his body and he will die in severe pain/discomfort in his own home. It presents like the flu (with itching) and moves on to the bones and lungs. Does not sound like a beach trip compared to chemo and a good chance of living a long and healthy life.

I disagree with the state ordering an adult to undergo chemo, but this is a minor.

http://www.lymphomainfo.net/hodgkins/diagnosis.html



[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 9:51 AM. Reason : k]

7/25/2006 9:41:37 AM

If I were the kid and they made me take the treatment I would just kill myself out of spite. END GAME.

7/25/2006 9:43:58 AM

JennMC....have you ever known someone who has had to go through chemo


you have no idea what it does to them




Plus this guy should have the basic right to choose whatever treatment he deems best for him......it is afterall HIS LIFE he is dealing with

7/25/2006 9:54:22 AM

Quote :

"choosing instead to go on a sugar-free, organic diet and take herbal supplements under the supervision of a clinic in Mexico."

I hope he wins. Months later: "Well, who would've thought my hippie parents and Mexican doctors were wrong? (cough cough)"

7/25/2006 10:01:20 AM

I have many relatives with surgery. 2 aunts went through chemo. Another aunt (as well as my mother) did radiation.

Chemo sucks, but it is doable if you want to live.

Quote :

"Plus this guy should have the basic right to choose whatever treatment he deems best for him......it is afterall HIS LIFE he is dealing with "

You know, as well as I, that he's under the age of 18 and thus he doesn't really have a choice what is best for him. Maybe he should, but the fact is that he doesn't and they've made the correct decision based on the current law.

It's kinda fucked up, but its the current law.

7/25/2006 10:09:39 AM

Actually, my best friend from high school was diagnosed with breast cancer her first year of college. I went home every weekend to be with her. She said it was totally worth it to be alive today. She had good odds to survive, similar to this kid.

my grandmother in law also went though chemo and is alive today, cancer free.

This is a kid we are talking about has one of the most curable cancers. He wants to live because he is pursuing alternative treatments. At 16, he has no legal rights. He can't make his own decisions. His parents are not putting his best interest (life thanks chemo) in front of other beliefs/interests.

Do a cost benefit analysis, absolute hell for three months and a VERY good chance of a long and healthy life or a slow and painful certain death at 16. I am sorry, it would be a very easy choice for me to make. A big factor is that this kid at worst has an 80% chance of living if he has the chemo. It would be a different story if this was a last ditch effort to prolong/save his life.

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 10:15 AM. Reason : k]

7/25/2006 10:11:40 AM

This brings up the whole "is there a cure for cancer 'conspiracy'"
I recently had a long talk with my mom (who's a nurse, not that it matters) and a couple of her friends about how if you go to any "alternative" medicine practice, they will tell you there is a cure for cancer. But actual regular medical doctors and the government don't want you going the alternative route because they make a bunch of money off of the drugs and treatment and it allows a lot of people to have jobs that are doing "research" on a cure for cancer.

Interesting conversation, but dunno if I believe any of it

7/25/2006 10:14:39 AM

There is no "cure" for cancer. You can eliminate it from the body, in many cases, but there is no actual cure.

7/25/2006 10:46:49 AM

Quote :

"that he's under the age of 18 and thus he doesn't really have a choice what is best for him. Maybe he should, but the fact is that he doesn't and they've made the correct decision based on the current law. "

if he murdered someone he could be on trial as an adult, but he can't make this decision.............

BULLSHIT

7/25/2006 11:45:42 AM

Quote :

"Actually, my best friend from high school was diagnosed with breast cancer her first year of college. I went home every weekend to be with her. She said it was totally worth it to be alive today. She had good odds to survive, similar to this kid."

Totally worth it to who?

Can this kid not decide for himself if he wants to live through multiple hells (his cancer came back once already) with no true guarantee that it will be gone, or go through some pain and be done with it. I gotta hand it to him for having more balls than the majority of the people on the planet. Stop being so fucking selfish. When he is dead, it's done, and there is a good chance wherever he is going is better than where we are now, so why should you care for anything other than purely selfish reasons? Get over it. Find a new friend.


From the Merck Manual:

"Although chemotherapy greatly improves the chances for a cure, side effects can be serious. The drugs may cause temporary or permanent sterility, an increased risk of infection, potential damage to other organs, such as the heart or lungs, and reversible hair loss. Sometimes leukemia can develop 5 to 10 years after chemotherapy for Hodgkin's disease. There is also an increased risk [18 to 70 times the normal rate] of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma or other cancers such as lung, breast, or stomach cancers 10 or more years after treatment with chemotherapy drugs; the risk may increase further when a person is also treated with radiation therapy.

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 12:09 PM. Reason : asd]

7/25/2006 12:03:48 PM

As I said before, is not buying the best treatment money can buy neglect?

7/25/2006 12:43:31 PM

Quote :

"I would rather die healthy and strong"

What a fucking idiot.

7/25/2006 12:47:55 PM

this is an example of our justice system totally failing its citizens.

7/25/2006 12:49:58 PM

the only problem with this is that he beleives that the alt therapy will cure him.

otherwise people have a right to refuse treatement/die. if 16 is old enough to be "tried as an adult" as so many DAs attempt, then certainly he must be old enough to recognize the difference between life and death.

i think the most irritating notion in this whole thing is that people insist that the quanitity of life is more important than the quality, and presume to oppress everyone around them with this value judgemnt. people have a right to decide whether they want a short, good life, or a long, bad life, as that is often the trade-off.

7/25/2006 1:09:50 PM

my roommates mother was diagnosed with cancer when she was 8. they were told that if the mom made it to a year it would be a miracle. she went on an organic, all natural diet and ended up living another 7 years. i believe that stuff can help...so why discredit him for believing it too?

7/25/2006 2:26:01 PM

but i thought govt healthcare in lieu of private healthcare was good?

7/25/2006 2:32:18 PM

Quote :

"As I said before, is not buying the best treatment money can buy neglect? "

If the treatment option you choose is nothing more than watching the kid die, yes.

7/25/2006 2:32:32 PM

I'm sort of split with this..I'm all for personal liberties...but I know that some parents are so stupid and uninformed that perhaps a professional's opinion should override their judgement in extreme cases. I don't think a person should die because they are young and don't have the ability to make informed decisions in regard to their physical health.

7/25/2006 2:35:45 PM

^this guy is not an infant. i know he is only 16 but damn, its his choice....he knows what is going on. What, the day he turns 18 he suddenly becomes enlightened b/c he is now an "adult"? After what he has already went through he is probably more of an adult than most people on tww, me included. he is going through this shit not the judge, his parents, or anyone else, why should they choose his fate?

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2006 2:42:39 PM

blah blah blah. you have to draw the line somewhere. in this country an "adult" is an 18 year old (at least in regards to this case).

we could get into a separate argument about what age people should be considered adults and the fact that we are considered adults at 18 yet still don't have full rights of a 40 year old (drinking, running for senate, president, etc). but that's an entirely different topic.

7/25/2006 2:45:49 PM

Quote :

"this guy is not an infant. i know he is only 16 but damn, its his choice....he knows what is going on. What, the day he turns 18 he suddenly becomes enlightened b/c he is now an "adult"? After what he has already went through he is probably more of an adult than most people on tww, me included. he is going through this shit not the judge, his parents, or anyone else, why should they choose his fate?"

I agree that he's old enough really, but legally, he's not. If you want a law change, I might support that, but what age magically makes you old enough to deal with it? If its not 18, is it 16? What's the big difference between 16 and 15...etc. until we have infants choosing their own medical procedures. Unfortunately, we have to pick an age. If you think its too high at 18, lobby for change, but have a good idea of what we should change it to first.


^beat me to it

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 2:47 PM. Reason : I want to run for senate, damn you constitution.]

7/25/2006 2:46:29 PM

Quote :

"If the treatment option you choose is nothing more than watching the kid die, yes."

There appears to be evidence that the method of treatment chosen can help. Furthermore, it does not appear that the parents are forcing the kid to refuse chemo, nor is there evidence that they would prevent him if he were to choose to do so in the future. This isn't neglect or abuse, this is someone choosing their own health.

^ The age is clearly not set in stone as evidenced by the number of cases where the prosecution attempts to prosecute a minor as an adult. Furthermore, even in the event that he can't legaly make that decision the legal power falls to the parents. To remove that power from the parents, one has to show neglect and abuse, clearly the state can't do this, otherwise they would have full custody over the kid.

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 2:52 PM. Reason : lhk]

7/25/2006 2:47:31 PM

Quote :

"I agree that he's old enough really, but legally, he's not. If you want a law change, I might support that, but what age magically makes you old enough to deal with it? If its not 18, is it 16? What's "

well then, people under 18 should never be on trial as "adults".....its a bull shit double standard.

Plus, if he really wanted to, couldn't he get a "divorce" from his parents and be legally considered an adult?

7/25/2006 2:53:53 PM

Knowing the difference between right and wrong...what you need to be tried criminally as an adult
is not equal to knowing what's best for your own health - the criterion that should more aptly be used here.

7/25/2006 3:15:46 PM

wlb, probably, but he didn't do that

7/25/2006 3:16:16 PM

Quote :

"Knowing the difference between right and wrong...what you need to be tried criminally as an adult is not equal to knowing what's best for your own health - the criterion that should more aptly be used here. "

bull shit double standard.

there are plenty of 60+ year olds that don't know/do what's best for their health, and nobody is forcing them to do what the gov. thinks is best.

7/25/2006 3:23:14 PM

Quote :

"is not equal to knowing what's best for your own health - the criterion that should more aptly be used here."

How hard is it? Stop acting like this is a tough decision.

Kids decision:

Went through months of hell when chances were high that he would be cured.
Cancer is back and survival rate is less than 50% now, after more months of hell
Side effects after the hell are numerous

I think a 16 year old is perfectly capable to understand basic statistics and can decide between life/death/and a little in between. Anyone who has the power to take his own life into his own hands is far more advanced on the comprehension of life scale than you, I, or some fag judge sitting up on his pedestal in some far away place.

7/25/2006 3:43:33 PM

^damn skippy!

7/25/2006 3:48:53 PM