OH MY!

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060905/D8JUMPGG0.html

Quote :

"Iranian President Wants to Purge Profs TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Tuesday for a purge of liberal and secular teachers from the country's universities, urging students to return to 1980s-style radicalism. "Today, students should shout at the president and ask why liberal and secular university lecturers are present in the universities," the official Islamic Republic News Agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying during a meeting with a group of students. Ahmadinejad complained that reforms in the country's universities were difficult to accomplish and that the educational system had been affected by secularism for the last 150 years. But, he added: "Such a change has begun." The president, in his role as head of the country's Council of Cultural Revolution, does have the authority to make such changes. But his comments Tuesday seemed designed more to encourage hard-line students to begin a pressure campaign on their own, thus forcing universities to oust the teachers. Iran retired dozens of liberal university professors and teachers earlier this year. And last November, Ahmadinejad's administration for the first time named a cleric to head the country's oldest institution of higher education, Tehran University, despite protests by students. Ahmadinejad is widely believed to need to jockey between various interest groups in Iran, at a time when hard-liners increasingly control more of the top rungs of government but still encounter resistance from parts of the public at large. Moderates also still remain in the government. But Tuesday's comments seemed to follow a campaign promise by Ahmadinejad to develop a more Islamic-oriented country. Since taking office last August, he has also replaced pragmatic veterans in the government with former military commanders and inexperienced religious hard-liners. Ahmadinejad's aim appears to be installing a new generation of rulers who will revive the fundamentalist goals pursued in the 1980s under the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, father of the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran. Shortly after the revolution, Iran fired hundreds of liberal and leftist university teachers and expelled numerous students."

Clearly those liberal and secular professors are big fans of Iran-backed Hezbollah...

9/5/2006 4:56:45 PM

dont worry man...i'm guessing in less than 15 years the US will give iran what it deserves and we wont have to worry them anymore

9/5/2006 4:58:24 PM

Iran liberal /= American liberal

9/5/2006 5:02:23 PM

Iran secular != US secular

9/5/2006 5:03:29 PM

it just seemed like you were addressing the statements expressed on tww in other threads that more american liberals are sympathetic to hezbollah than american conservatives, and therefore this story would somehow dispute that, even though its really apples and oranges

9/5/2006 5:05:19 PM

How's that?

I mean, I can see your equal sign with a forward slash before it. But you didn't really explain the concept at all...

9/5/2006 5:07:07 PM

Haha, ousting their liberal and secular teachers...

I wonder how they compare to ours. Like is "perhaps our wives don't have to wear full-out burkas, but only shawls" considered a liberal statement there?

Either way, I don't think that country needs any more right-wing nutjobism.

Iranian right-wing nutjobism.

[Edited on September 5, 2006 at 5:38 PM. Reason : oooh shit]

9/5/2006 5:16:13 PM

I'm just saying. This is a guy who's clearly declared war on liberalism AND secularism. Ann Coulter should be proud.

9/5/2006 5:19:48 PM

^^I'm not really sure why you categorize Ahmadinejad as right wing. Religious intolerance and nationalism are not monopolized by the right.

9/5/2006 5:47:56 PM

Hahaha -- this must piss off conservatives and Christians so much, out of sheer envy.

Once again the Muslim community shows the ability to do what the religious right in this country can only fantasize about.

9/5/2006 5:51:03 PM

i gotta look up this secular word...i always was under the impression it was about religion, which would make me think Ahmadinutjab would want more secular teachers there...cause hes all about radical islam and killing jews

9/5/2006 5:54:12 PM

Quote :

"I'm not really sure why you categorize Ahmadinejad as right wing. Religious intolerance and nationalism are not monopolized by the right."

Okay, then Iran doesn't need any more Pat Robertsonism.

9/5/2006 6:07:05 PM

^^ You seriously thought secular meant the exact opposite of what secular means?

[Edited on September 5, 2006 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ^]

9/5/2006 6:07:49 PM

idk it just sounds like a religious type word to me

like sacriledge or some shit

9/5/2006 6:40:55 PM

Quote :

"Hahaha -- this must piss off conservatives and Christians so much, out of sheer envy."

That makes no sense.......AMERICANS SHOULD BE OUTRAGED IN GENERAL.

9/5/2006 7:12:10 PM

It makes lots of sense.

Oh the things Islam accomplishes that Christianity can only theorize about.

9/5/2006 7:27:00 PM

he's saying that lots of conservative christians wish they could do that

it makes sense


someone tell the underwood kid about this, he wrote something in the technician about how we needed to

9/5/2006 7:28:23 PM

I could care less about purging the Christian profs

but the liberal ones, they need to go

9/5/2006 9:10:36 PM

This would be right up Randy's tree.

9/6/2006 12:33:06 AM

Quote :

"This would be right up Randy's tree."

Quote :

"Hahaha -- this must piss off conservatives and Christians so much, out of sheer envy."

Haha, quite literally...!

/message_topic.aspx?topic=429907

9/6/2006 2:48:22 AM

Quote :

"I'm just saying. This is a guy who's clearly declared war on liberalism AND secularism. Ann Coulter should be proud."

Gamecat, this is an intellectually dishonest statement.
You know very well that the ideas of secularism and liberalism in Iran do not compare with the use of the terms here. A secularist here is generally the term applied to people as militantly secularist as the theists are theistic in Iran. A liberal in Iran would refer to someone who thinks women should be able to show their hair in public. Certainly, you wouldn't label me a liberal if I made the same statement here.

You're better than that. I would expect this from someone like Josh####s, but you're capable of making a decent argument.

9/6/2006 7:05:23 AM

I think there is a question of degree, but I dont think the concepts are fundamentally different.

And I think Coulter is attacking the exact same thing that Ahmadinejad is, that people have the liberty to do as they please as long as they are not harming others and that church and state should be seperate. She has made it quite clear that she detests both ideas.

9/6/2006 10:41:24 AM

Quote :

"Iran liberal /= American liberal"

9/6/2006 10:46:31 AM

bgmims and TreeTwista,

You are illogically attacking the statement made by Gamecat and supported by others.

We are stating -

Ann Coulter : American Liberal :: Ahmadinejad : Iranian Liberal.

You are attempting to counter this by stating -

Quote :

"Iran liberal /= American liberal"

This does not destroy the comparison.

TreeTwista: I know you think you are being cute and that you're right, but why don't you try posting something other than a one-liner to prove to us that you have a point?

9/6/2006 10:59:57 AM

Quote :

"I think there is a question of degree, but I dont think the concepts are fundamentally different. "

It is absolutely a question of degree, but its intellectually dishonest to try and obfuscate them. For instance, at one point in history, someone who thought women should be able to work were considered liberal. However, it is incorrect to then go and say that those people would be liberal in today's society. They may or may not be, but it isn't the same.

It is a difference of degree, but its so far a difference of degree that its dishonest to try to treat them the same.

9/6/2006 11:00:38 AM

Quote :

"Ann Coulter : American Liberal :: Ahmadinejad : Iranian Liberal"

Yes, but if that's the only comparison you are making, then

Quote :

"This is a guy who's clearly declared war on liberalism AND secularism. Ann Coulter should be proud."

is an abomination of the argument. It implies that Ann Coulter would be proud of the actions of Ahmadinejad versus the Iranian Liberal, not towards the American Liberal

That is just false.

9/6/2006 11:02:47 AM

the point is, gamecat made this thread with the attempt of saying "hey, you guys said that more liberals support hezbollah than conservatives...well look here, iran doesnt like liberals! so ha!"...but thats completely false because the words liberal and secular in iranian society are completely different than the meanings of the words in american politics...this thread is just trying to take a shot at people who insinuated, correctly i might add, that more liberals support hezbollah than conservatives

all it takes is a one-liner to debunk this crappy thread

9/6/2006 11:04:52 AM

Tree Twista is on point there...that's exactly what was tried and the fact that it came from Gamecat makes me assume it was either facetious or he was drunk.

9/6/2006 11:06:34 AM

Bgmims,

Still, the comparison is not that Ann Coulter is proud of the actions of Ahmadinejad against Iranian Liberals. No one is saying that (not even Gamecat). Such a statement could easily be retorted as you have pointed out.

I see the problem now with your interpretation of the statement and the different interpretation I took and I think Gamecat was implying.

Gamecat was implying that Ann Coulter would be proud of the *method* not of the application.

Thus, while he is not saying that Ann Coulter supports Iran, supports Terrorists, or is otherwise proud of the job that Ahmadinejad is doing - he is saying that she does want to apply those same methods here in America. The difference in degrees doesn't matter in this case, nor does this imply that she is "proud" of the actions of Ahmadinejad - merely that she is proud of the method of his actions.

9/6/2006 11:13:29 AM

TreeTwista,

The definition of the words Liberal and Secular mean the same thing in any country.

In any country you are going to label different things as Liberal and Secular - I am not arguing that. Thus "liberal" things or ideas in Iran can be completely different or even "conservative" things or ideas in America.

However, I and Gamecat are comparing the M E T H O D S which both Ann Coulter and Ahmadinejad would like to see applied to their own versions of Liberal and Secular things/ideas.

9/6/2006 11:18:21 AM

Lavim,

Point taken

Next time someone gets people excited about politics I'm going to tell them that Hitler would be proud.

9/6/2006 11:48:03 AM

Quote :

"this thread is just trying to take a shot at people who insinuated, correctly i might add, that more liberals support hezbollah than conservatives"

Its a fact that more liberals than conservatives support hezbollah. You're twisting the real implication of this thread to make it seem less valid. What people really insinuated in other threads is that liberals, as a whole, support hezbollah.

9/6/2006 12:12:17 PM

"I told you so!"

thats all this thread is trying to say

and it fails at that

9/6/2006 12:15:47 PM

Quote :

"Next time someone gets people excited about politics I'm going to tell them that Hitler would be proud."

Now you're either not really getting the point, refuse to admit it, or are just being an ass.

"Being Proud" of something isn't exactly an action in which a comparison can be made with much meaning.

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/6/2006 12:18:20 PM

the point is "oh look, iran doesnt like liberals so you guys are wrong!"

9/6/2006 12:20:22 PM

Well if that 'point' was implied somehow in Gamecat's discussion then I missed it.

You're reading way too far into this: Just because Gamecat made a comparison between what Ahmadinejad and Coulter are trying to do in their repective countries does not mean that he argued or proved anything more than that.

As you pointed out so verbosely:

Quote :

"Iran liberal /= American liberal"

Thus although he pointed out that while many Conservatives in this country and many Convervatives in Iran may want similiar actions (e.g. Religion taught in Schools, Banning of state sanctioned Secular thought, etc.) he made no argument to show that in the two completely different circumstances inside Iran and America that Conservatives in America are wrong, evil, or even misguided for wanting these similiar actions to take place.

Recognize his statement for what it is - don't read into it and see something that isn't there, argue against what isn't even there, and then claim the thread somehow doesn't deliver on what you incorrectly perceived it to be about.

If you read so far into every single statement made by a Liberal person then it is no wonder you consider them idiots.

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 12:32 PM. Reason : i before e except after c ...]

9/6/2006 12:31:04 PM

Quote :

"Thus although he pointed out that while many Conservatives in this country and many Convervatives in Iran may want similiar actions (e.g. Religion taught in Schools, Banning of state sanctioned Secular thought, etc.) he made no argument to show that in the two completely different circumstances inside Iran and America that Conservatives in America are wrong, evil, or even misguided for wanting these similiar actions to take place. "

Many? I don't belive so, although it surely is a subjective word. Banning of state sanctioned secular thought? You will find a few nutjobs that feel this way, and you will find some that want religion taught in schools (I'm assuming you mean religion to be practiced, not to be understood).

I need a better definition of how many of us on the conservative side are really trying to ban secular thought. That's a characterization of conservatism that is mostly unfair, but works well as a campaign slogan.

9/6/2006 1:00:56 PM

^ I must admit I'm not too keen on how many of the 'Conservative Base' think these days. I've been wrong so many times that I've admitted to myself that I no longer fully understand the train of thought of an average member of this 'Base'.

I look at the statements Katherine Harris recently made and how she just recently won the GOP primary in Florida and I wonder to myself if the people who voted for her really fully understood and backed the statements that she made about Government and Religion.

Many was a bad word to use. "At least a few" would have been accurate.

I think what concerns me the most about the current and recent political atmosphere is my lack of understanding of the thought process running through not only the Conservative Base, but the majority of the Country.

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 1:51 PM. Reason : majority]

9/6/2006 1:50:14 PM

Quote :

"I think what concerns me the most about the current and recent political atmosphere is my lack of understanding of the thought process running through not only the Conservative Base, but the country as a whole."

Well, I think by and large the country doesn't know what it wants. Truthfully, the difference between the democrats and republicans is very small. However, if you listened to the campaigning, you'd think it was the choice between "Jesus Freaks" and "Baby Killers"
There are a lot more of us in the center. I think my main problem is that people keep saying "conservatives" when they mean "social conservatives"

9/6/2006 1:53:00 PM

Thxu Lavim and Clear5 for not missing the point.

This had very little to do with your thread about liberals and Hezbollah. It had plenty more to do with the crusade of the right in this country against liberalism and secular professors in our universities.

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 3:29 PM. Reason : ...]

9/6/2006 3:27:56 PM

I don't think in the US there is a general movement to remove liberal professors from universities...cause if there was, its not working...I think they want to remove a few liberal professors here and there who say things like, oh I don't know, we should eradicate the white race from the face of the Earth...or that 9/11 was a conspiracy carried out by the US government...things that do not need to be "taught" in schools

9/6/2006 3:41:01 PM

Quote :

"Hahaha -- this must piss off conservatives and Christians so much, out of sheer envy. Once again the Muslim community shows the ability to do what the religious right in this country can only fantasize about. "

Whats that? Keep the entire population illiterate and stupid?

9/6/2006 3:44:56 PM

Convince the population to strap bombs to their chest and blow themselves up for virgins in heaven?

9/6/2006 3:46:15 PM

Quote :

"I don't think in the US there is a general movement to remove liberal professors from universities...cause if there was, its not working..."

It doesn't have to be successful, just existant.

I mean, somebody is keeping the 700 Club funded enough to remain on TV, and something tells me it isn't MoveOn...

9/6/2006 3:52:10 PM

the 700 Club is good tv

9/6/2006 3:52:46 PM

^^Well it should be existant when you have some of the professors teaching genocide and other unacceptable things

9/6/2006 3:54:27 PM

Most of the professors I had at NCSU and at my last college were liberal as hell.

9/6/2006 3:56:11 PM

who goes to school for 8 years to become a humanities prof.

..........liberals.

this is like complaining the dude you hired to kill roaches in your house really hates roaches.

9/6/2006 3:58:34 PM

^^ And what, pray tell, is liberal about genocide?

9/6/2006 3:58:49 PM

ha wrong!

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 4:09 PM. Reason : OOPS!]

9/6/2006 4:00:14 PM