Quote :

"The View From the Top The top of what you ask? The height of World of Warcraft greatness. A few weeks ago, a good friend of mine quit playing Warcraft. He was a council member on what is now one of the oldest guilds in the world, the type of position coveted by many of the 7 million people who play the game today, but which only a few ever get. When he quit, I asked him if he would write a guest blog post about the experience. What follows is a cautionary tale about the pull an escape from reality can have on you. ------------------------------------------------------------------- 60 levels, 30+ epics, a few really good "real life" friends, a seat on the oldest and largest guild on our server's council, 70+ days "/played," and one "real" year later... Mr. Yeager asked me to write this "guest blog" for him. I figured I should oblige him this request - it was none other than Mr. Yeager who first introduced me to (begged for me to buy, actually :-p) the World of Warcraft. It was the "perfect storm" for me; a time in my life when I was unemployed, living at my family's house far from my friends, and had just finished my engineering degree and was taking a little time to find a job. I had a lot of free time on my hands and WoW gave me a place to spend it. This could be a many page epic tale, but I figure I'd give you the brief history and pertinent information. The guild Mr. Yeager got me into and with which I became an officer is the oldest and largest on the server I played on. It is around 18 months old and extremely well-versed in endgame instances. I was both the "mage class lead" and an officer. I have many very good friends I met through WoW (in real life - no kidding) and even have been "involved" with another councilor in real life (yes, I know, I'm weird for meeting girls through an online video game but honestly, ask Mr. Yeager, she's head and shoulders better than all the girls I met DJing, waiting tables, in college, and bartending at clubs in Philly). But I digress... I just left WoW permanently. I was a leader in one of the largest and most respected guilds in the world, a well-equipped and well-versed mage, and considered myself to have many close friends in my guild. Why did I leave? Simple: Blizzard has created an alternate universe where we don't have to be ourselves when we don't want to be. From my vantage point as a guild decision maker, I've seen it destroy more families and friendships and take a huge toll on individuals than any drug on the market today, and that means a lot coming from an ex-club DJ. It took a huge personal toll on me. To illustrate the impact it had, let's look at me one year later. When I started playing, I was working towards getting into the best shape of my life (and making good progress, too). Now a year later, I'm about 30 pounds heavier that I was back then, and it is not muscle. I had a lot of hobbies including DJing (which I was pretty accomplished at) and music as well as writing and martial arts. I haven't touched a record or my guitar for over a year and I think if I tried any Kung Fu my gut would throw my back out. Finally, and most significantly, I had a very satisfying social life before. My friends and I would go out and there were things to do every night of the week. Now a year later, I realize my true friends are the greatest people in the world because the fact I came out of my room, turned the lights on, and watched a movie with them still means something. They still are having a great time teasing me at my expense, however, which shows they still love me and they haven't changed. These changes are miniscule, however, compared to what has happened in quite a few other people's lives. Some background... Blizzard created a game that you simply can not win. Not only that, the only way to "get better" is to play more and more. In order to progress, you have to farm your little heart out in one way or another: either weeks at a time PvPing to make your rank or weeks at a time getting materials for and "conquering" raid instances, or dungeons where you get "epic loot" (pixilated things that increase your abilities, therefore making you "better"). And what do you do after these mighty dungeons fall before you and your friend's wrath? Go back the next week (not sooner, Blizzard made sure you can only raid the best instances once a week) and do it again (imagine if Alexander the Great had to push across the Middle East every damn week). What does this mean? Well, to our average "serious" player this equates to anywhere between 12 hours (for the casual and usually "useless" player) to honestly 10 hours a day, seven days a week for those "hardcore" gamers. During my stint, I was playing about 30 hours a week (and still finding it hard to keep up with my farming) and logging on during my work day in order to keep up with all the guild happenings and to do my scheduling and tracking for the raids. A lot of time went into the development of new policies which took our friendly and family-oriented guild further and further away from its roots but closer to the end goal. Honestly, what that end goal is I'm not totally sure - there is truly no end to the game and every time you feel like you're satisfied with your progress, another aspect of the game is revealed and, well, you just aren't as cool as you can be again. There are three problems that arise from WoW: the time it requires to do anything "important" is astounding, it gives people a false sense of accomplishment, and when you're a leader, and get wrapped up in it, no matter how much you care or want people to care, you're doing the wrong thing. First off, let's go back to the time it takes to accomplish anything in the game. To really be successful, you need to at least invest 12 hours a week, and that is bare minimum. From a leadership perspective, that 12 hours would be laughed at. That's the guy who comes unprepared to raid and has to leave half way through because he has work in the morning or is going out or some other thing that shows "lack of commitment". To the extreme there is the guildie who is always on and ready to help. The "good guildie" who plays about 10 hours a day and seven days a week. Yes, that's almost two full-time jobs. Funny, no one ever asks any questions, though. The worst though are the people you know have time commitments. People with families and significant others. I am not one to judge a person's situation, but when a father/husband plays a video game all night long, seven days a week, after getting home from work, very involved instances that soak up hours and require concentration, it makes me queasy that I encouraged that. Others include the kids you know aren't doing their homework and confide in you they are failing out of high school or college but don't want to miss their chance at loot, the long-term girl/boyfriend who is skipping out on a date (or their anniversary - I've seen it) to play (and in some cases flirt constantly), the professional taking yet another day off from work to farm mats or grind their reputations up with in-game factions to get "valuable" quest rewards, etc... I'm not one to tell people how to spend their time, but it gets ridiculous when you take a step back. "

[Edited on October 25, 2006 at 4:04 PM. Reason : ..]

10/25/2006 4:03:35 PM

Quote :

" The game also provides people with a false sense of security, accomplishment, and purpose. Anyone can be a superhero here if they have the time to put in. Not only that, a few times I've seen this breed the "rockstar" personality in people who have no confidence at all in real life. Don't get me wrong, building confidence is a good thing and something, if honed appropriately, the game can do very right. But in more than a few cases, very immature people with bad attitudes are catered to (even after insulting or degrading others "in public") because they are "better" than the rest. Usually this means they played a lot more and have better gear. I'd really hate to see how this "I'm better than you attitude" plays out in real life where it means jack how epic your loot is - when you say the wrong thing to the wrong person it's going to have repercussions and you can't just log out to avoid the effects of your actions. And people put everything on the line for these accomplishments with which they associate much value. I know of children and spouses being forced to play and grind for their parents, threats of divorce, rampant neglect, failing grades in school, and thousands of dollars spent on "outsourcing" foreign help. For what, you ask? Honor. The desire to be the best for at least one week. To get the best loot in the game. What do these "heroes" receive? Why, cheers and accolades of course as they parade along in their new shiny gear... which is obsolete the first time they step into one of the premier instances. The accomplishment and sacrifice itself are meaningless a few days later. Then it's usually off to the races again. Finally, when you're a leader there is a call (or more appropriately a demand) for success. Usually those you represent want to keep progressing. They want to keep improving. They want more access to the best things. It is on you to provide it. In my experience, when you fail to progress fast enough, waves ripple throughout the guild and people become dissatisfied. It's your fault, no matter what. Everything you've done to keep things fair and provide for everyone does not mean a damn thing. A few will stand up for you, but when you have 150 people who all want 150 different things, you end up listening to 150 voices complaining about the job you're doing. This volunteer job usually takes at least 10 extra hours a week (on top of regular playing). Towards the end of my year of service, I apparently couldn't do anything right with my class. I had to rotate people to make sure everyone was getting a fair shot. I wrote actual mathematical proofs the allowed for fair and effective (yes, both) raid distribution according to efficiency, speed, and guild class population. I even rotated myself more than any other class member. People still took it upon themselves to tell me what I was doing wrong (constantly) and how their way was more fair (usually for them). The thing that kicked me in the ass more than anything else was I really cared if my guildies were getting what they wanted out of the experience. I truly thought my efforts would make them happy. I wanted to make a difference to them. The greedy and socially phobic high school kid I thought I could help through the game, all of the couples (both married and not) who were falling apart because of the game I thought I could rescue, the girl who was deeply wounded by a guy who left her for the game but was herself addicted I thought I could save, not to mention a host of others, I thought my efforts were helping. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: I was providing them with an escape from their problems and nurturing the very thing that was holding them back. Oh yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks after I had changed so much and lost enough of myself that the most wonderful girl I ever met broke up with me. I remember clearly after fumbling around life for a few weeks that I dragged myself into the bathroom to get ready for work. I was tired because I was up until close to 2 AM raiding. Every week I read though email or I would run into one of my "real" friends and I'd hear "Andy, what's up, I haven't seen you in a while." I looked in the mirror and in a cinemaesque turn of events and a biblical moment of clarity, told myself "I haven't seen me in a while either." That did it. I wanted to do the things I wanted to do again and be with the people who appreciated me even if I abandoned them for a year and sucked to high heaven as a friend. The prodigal son returned and my friends were happy. The best advice I got was from the girl who dumped me for being a jackass (and after I decided to really quit and be "myself again" became one of, if not my best friend in the entire world), who said "your real friends like you even when you screw up." It's true. Funny side note was the reaction I got from the guild that I spent a year pouring my heart and soul into. I made my post in the guild forums saying I was leaving (half of it RPing - something that doesn't happen after you start raiding) and that it was time for me to move on. Three days later I didn't exist any more. The machine kept on moving without this gear. A few people asked me over email (and when I logged on to clean out the old bank) when I was coming back (I'm not going to). There are a few others I keep in contact with and am planning on going to visit sooner or later so I can hang out in person and they can finally meet me. But in the end being forgotten about so soon after still left a bittersweet taste. But one that was a lot easier to swallow than the one I chugged down every day for the better part of a year. Don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right. At times it was a fun game that allowed me to keep in contact with friends who lived far away. More importantly it introduced me to some of the best real life friends I've ever met. However, it did take an undeniable toll on me and is taking a far greater one on many, many people when taken too far. "

http://soulkerfuffle.blogspot.com/2006/10/view-from-top.html

ran across it on drudge-- holy crap-- a very interesting perspective IMO. Read it if you dare, though a lot of words, it's a pretty interesting read if you ever got sucked into that world or one like it...

10/25/2006 4:04:35 PM

This guy chose to play the game every time he loaded it up.

10/25/2006 4:15:56 PM

people mostly like the feeling of being able to do just about anything and have it not matter a short time later...

10/25/2006 4:16:26 PM

thats the very reason I never started playing WoW, its worse than drugs

10/25/2006 4:17:54 PM

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=428090

This is another thread about the same subject. Be sure to read Raige's post. The funny thing is WoW is nothing compared to other MMORPGs in terms of the amount of time it eats up.

10/25/2006 4:22:13 PM

Some hardcore warcraft players replied to that article above....

Quote :

" Listen to me, right now: if this game is ruining your life, stop playing. If your girlfriend is telling you to choose between her and WoW, choose her, you idiot. If you're about to lose your job because you play this game too much, stop playing this game. It's a game. It's not responsible for any of the stuff that happened to this blogger-- he is. We've heard the arguments he makes before-- blah blah blah, the game is addictive, it becomes an obsession, Blizzard is rewarding farming and time investment instead of skill. And all those things are true, to a degree. But coffee is addictive, too, and so is smoking, and so is alcohol. Is it beer's fault that college students do stupid things on the weekend? Of course not-- it's the students' fault for drinking too much beer. And if this guy is overweight, girlfriendless, and a loser, it's his fault, not the game. WoW is just that-- a game. Shame on him for forgetting that when most of the seven million other players don't seem to have a problem with it. And the worst part of the article is the sheer arrogance and snobbery that comes along with it. The piece itself is called "A View from the Top" (as if he's trying to brag how awesome he was ingame before he realized he was clearly playing too much). He brags about writing "actual mathematical proofs that allowed for fair and effective (yes, both) raid distribution according to efficiency, speed, and guild class population" when even his own guildies told him not to do it. And at times, you just feel like he's got to be making things up-- children "forced to play and grind for their parents"? What idiot parents would ever do that? Shouldn't he have given DCFS a call? And after having the nerve to "help" guildies who didn't want it, he's distraught that they left him behind without even a wave goodbye-- as if the whole guild should stop raiding because he quit the game. Finally, he's so smug about quitting, as if it's a mark of honor that he was able to "fix" his life and get away from WoW. If you want to quit the game, fine. If you choose to stop playing because you can't handle dividing your work and play, great, more power to you. But don't take it as a point of pride that you were able to step away from the game-- you lost that when you chose to play the game too much in the first place. Even after you've quit, it's not the game's fault that you couldn't make good choices about what to do with your time. You're not better than the people still playing because you were able to "escape the terrible WoW monster." If anything, they're more stable than you are, because they were able to play the game without problems, and you couldn't. If you play the game too much, it's your problem-- not your guildies for "forcing" you to play, not Blizzard for making an addictive game, and not the other players for pushing you to raid for epix. You made the mistake-- not to play the game (that's not a mistake at all), but to play too much. Accept a little responsibility for it.""

10/25/2006 4:30:06 PM

Y'know, you have to wonder, if anyone has an estimate of the % of players at various levels of addiction on various games (as defined by detrimental to social life, not time spent, although time spent wouldn't be a bad statistic to see either.)

And no, the google string I used didnt come up with something like that , but i didnt spend forever looking either.

[Edited on October 25, 2006 at 5:12 PM. Reason : .]

10/25/2006 5:12:21 PM

1) 30-40 epics, 70 days played, 1 year in wow, probably not near the top. Same with teh 150 people in teh guild comment, theres only one top tier/2nd tier guild i can think of that has that kind of membership and they havent added new members since beta. (They have a rather unqiue guild dynamic worth studing for anyone seriously trying to research WoW and Life shit in order ot get thier name printed on something). A Top tier raiding guild will be built around 60-80 people (raid stacking for Naxx required most guilds to expand thier warrior corp and probably pick up some healers)

I think theres alot of misconception about time investment for WoW's high end. I was a raid leader and Main Tank(MT) for my first raiding guild (pre-bwl error). Since then i have been an MT/OT for a bwl/aq guild, leveled and played a priest for an AQ/Naxx guild and eventually back on my warrior in the #1 US horde progession guild(No i did not 'guild hop' just 2 mergers). This has all been done on 20-25 hours a week. A big misconception by alot of people is that they think they are a top tier guild because they raid 7 days a week 10 hours a day. No one raids that much. It would burn you out to fast, and destory your preformance. (I have raided till 3am on a weekend before, but that was due to boredom, we kept goign till we ran out of people). In my time doing this over the last 25 months (beta play) I have managed to maintain income and this you get a rather perm 40-50hr/week job, have a healthy relationship thats pushing 18 months, and a rather active social life. No i dont go get shitfaced 5 nights a week, i go out on weekends when theres soemthing going on. The only thing i have 'neglected' has been exercising, and i have worked that back in recently. Time managment is the key though, and if you suck at and you cant control yourself then maybe MMOs arent for you. But if you are that personally irresponsible, maybe they help society by keeping you from breeding.


(Before anyone attacks it i know my spelling and grammer suck, but hey, i'm an engineer damnit )

10/25/2006 5:56:15 PM

I have no idea what the fuck you said in the first half of the second paragraph.

10/25/2006 6:00:47 PM

summary

MMO's kill all real social life

Dont play them unless your already alone, moved to a city where you know nobody, or are paralyzed from the dick up.

Its not worth playing casually even though you can with WoW. You dont get the rewards you could get putting your time into a non MMO game.

Lack of sunlight and lack of movement make you feel bad. And pale isnt attractive to the opposite sex. You actually cant get laid over the internet.

10/25/2006 9:47:39 PM

that shit's for dorks.

10/25/2006 10:11:46 PM

Quote :

"hildren "forced to play and grind for their parents"? What idiot parents would ever do that? "

I know a kid from lineage 2 who was grounded for bad grades by his parents because he played to muhc.


the only way he could play was , after he finished his school work, he logged on and leveled his dad's buffbot.


he's not making anythingup



none of my friends from EQ have heard of raige !!

[Edited on October 25, 2006 at 10:46 PM. Reason : .]

10/25/2006 10:38:19 PM