Is it a good use of our tax dollars? Would it be cheaper to do this than to just incarcerate them all as we find them? Why not let them in and tax them heavily, show them just how great it is to be an American?!

10/26/2006 10:43:26 AM

If you are going to build a wall along a border for the purposes of keeping people out, it would at least help to build a wall the entire length of the border. I am quite skeptical of what a ~700 mile wall can really do to "protect" a ~2000 mile border

10/26/2006 10:45:09 AM

Anti-Taco Legislation

10/26/2006 10:57:41 AM

it would probably keep out the people who have no means of getting to one end or the other. not to mention, more so than people going 300 miles to go around the fence, i'd be more skeptical of people going 15 feet to go over it.
plus, there's already a good bit of fencing up, so it's not "just 700 mile will on a 2000 mile border"

10/26/2006 10:59:07 AM

Isn't it a little odd that the same group of folks that mobilized the evangelical Christian vote into their favor, are doing some very non Christian things in regards to this fence?

Love thy neighbor, anyone?

10/26/2006 11:10:26 AM

honestly... do you think a wall that can be traversed by a 30 foot ladder is really going to do it's job? Now they just have to pay for a ladder. You'll see stores that just sell ladders show up.

Hell maybe someone will make a slingshot for mexicans. You can imagine the fun for that. Sell hunting permits for flying mexicans over the wall.

BLAM! "Damn Billybob... that mexicun was HUGE!"

10/26/2006 11:14:04 AM

cut off the border


and then deal with the problem already here

no point in dealing with the problem already here until you stop the flow of illegal immigrants

10/26/2006 11:14:11 AM

what is it some people don't understand about the word 'illegal'?

10/26/2006 11:15:02 AM

Walls and more aggressive enforcement aren't going to do anything unless you pair it up without offering an alternative like improved immigration. I'm actually a fan of Bush's proposals on how to deal with the current illegal immigration problem.

Quote :

"Isn't it a little odd that the same group of folks that mobilized the evangelical Christian vote into their favor, are doing some very non Christian things in regards to this fence? Love thy neighbor, anyone?"

Just because you love your neighbor doesn't mean you let him walk into your living room whenever he wants.

10/26/2006 12:20:10 PM

I don't think I have ever had an illegal invade my privacy.

10/26/2006 12:27:33 PM

You're a swimmer, right? You've never swam off the coast of Florida and been run over by a Haitian refugee boat?

10/26/2006 12:28:41 PM

Quote :

"what is it some people don't understand about the word 'illegal'?"

That's really cute coming from someone named "TreeTwista" with pics of weed in his gallery.

These people break the law because they don't have any other good option. You broke the law because you thought it was stupid and unfair. Welcome to their world. Only at least they're doing it to better themselves.

10/26/2006 12:32:47 PM

Quote :

"Isn't it a little odd that the same group of folks that mobilized the evangelical Christian vote into their favor, are doing some very non Christian things in regards to this fence? Love thy neighbor, anyone?"

The united states has no problem helping immigrants from other countries out. They just have to follow the laws of the land like everyone else in the free world.

10/26/2006 12:36:40 PM

WELCOME TO THE FUTURE!!!!!!

the USA cant prentend its Japan during the 1700's. Also unless we put microchips into "legal" citizens there is no way we will ever fix the illegal immigration "problem"

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 12:37 PM. Reason : ^ and I break laws all the damn time and so do you]

10/26/2006 12:36:43 PM

how is it not fair that most americans want them to at least be LEGAL immigrants, not illegal immigrants?

it's not fair that taxpayers have to send their kids to school and hospitals while they send money back to mexico either


I have no problem with people coming here legally, but there is a problem when the government itself has no idea how many illegal immigrants are in this country

^ yeah, you can start, when illegals are found, ship them back

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 12:37 PM. Reason : .]

10/26/2006 12:36:56 PM

Why don't we pass stricter regulations on any industry that typically will employ an illegal. Those folks are breaking the law too. If we don't give them any capability to eat, then they don't come here.

Why don't we, after actually checking SSNs for matches, actually enforce anything when we find out they don't match?

Sounds like this admin. isn't upholding the laws of the land. Instead, we go and burn billions on a fence. Sounds brilliant.

10/26/2006 12:37:29 PM

im sure the amount of money I spent on beer last night is greater than the burden placed on me by all of the immigrants in the USA.

and we dont and wont let every single person who wants into the US to be legal, thats why they sneek in.

10/26/2006 12:39:25 PM

they'd rather ship college students that have been here since they were 9 and are now married to an american back to their homeland than start pushing worthless illegals out

^ but when it adds up (govt estimates 12-20 million illegals here) that's everyones beer





[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 12:40 PM. Reason : .]

10/26/2006 12:39:29 PM

Dentaldamn, just curious as to which laws I break, and which ones you break?

10/26/2006 12:39:34 PM

im sure the amount of money I spent on beer last night is greater than the burden placed on me by all of the immigrants in the USA.

and we dont and wont let every single person who wants into the US to be legal, thats why they sneek in.

10/26/2006 12:39:57 PM

^^ speed limits i would guess.

10/26/2006 12:40:23 PM

ok then, when someone speeds on the interstate or whereever, I am not paying for them to do that.

10/26/2006 12:41:51 PM

so it's ok that there could be upwards of 20 million unknown people running around the country doing who knows what?

10/26/2006 12:42:24 PM

^^ yes you are.

why do you think car insurance is so retardedly expensive. Because people suck at driving.

^ i would guess they picked the oranges that were in the orange juice i just drank. Also there are 300,000,000 people in the US doing some shady ass shit. Maybe not the babies.



[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 12:45 PM. Reason : !!]

10/26/2006 12:43:51 PM

I understand

I just feel that if we have to be basically "registered" and pay taxes, so should anyone else that comes over here to live

I have no problem with the people, I've met some awesome workers that were probably illegal, but feel that if they get the same privilidges I do, they should bear the same burden

10/26/2006 12:47:13 PM

i don't have to have auto insurance though....as long as i work, i have to pay taxes. My point is, is that just because other people break laws too, that we shouldn't enforce this one. I like the mexican worker. They are hard workers, they typically have tight-knit families, and they can be good for the economy. I would just like to have them more documented and controlled than they are right now. My ancestors immigrated here legally, and i'm totally for immigration, legally. I like the idea of the guest worker program, but the illegal problem must be contained first.

10/26/2006 12:50:23 PM

Quote :

"If you are going to build a wall along a border for the purposes of keeping people out, it would at least help to build a wall the entire length of the border. I am quite skeptical of what a ~700 mile wall can really do to "protect" a ~2000 mile border "

there are large portions of the border where it is geographically stupid to put a fence due to mountain ranges.

an incomplete fence however, will only serve to funnel, not impede. this is historically evident with the existing fence

10/26/2006 12:51:40 PM

why don't we raise the number of worker visas to america, instead of punishing the very ones who would use these visas were they available to more unskilled latino workers?

if we did that, i could see increasing enforcement, because then, you'd know that the people trying to cross were the ones trying to smuggle drugs or do other nefarious things.

as it is now, msot of the people illegally crossing the border just want a better life. and if they are hardworking and law-abiding, i don't see why we shouldn't allow them to do that (in a formal worker-visa style way)

10/26/2006 12:53:18 PM

^if we could probably control and organize that, that sounds like an excellent idea....i just doubt that the government is competent enough to handle that

10/26/2006 12:55:50 PM

then how are they going to handle the huge number of people trying to get into the united states legally to avoid the illegal immigration situation? I might be labeled a "liberal" but the government and/or any corporation do not have the manpower or money to handle a situation this big. Its just not going to happen so we might as well understand that these people will not make enough money anyways to pay income or property taxes to begin so just deal with them and get the good out of it.

10/26/2006 1:00:33 PM

Quote :

"These people break the law because they don't have any other good option"

They break the law because they know they can get away with it

They hear stories from whoever about people who have made it to America

When I'm fiscally down on my luck, should I rob people because I don't have "any other good option"?

ps: my bad for experimenting with weed in college, i'm sure i'm the only one

I'm sure thats worse than shipping hundreds of pounds of weed over the US/Mexican border

10/26/2006 1:03:30 PM

Quote :

"Why don't we pass stricter regulations on any industry that typically will employ an illegal. Those folks are breaking the law too. If we don't give them any capability to eat, then they don't come here."

You have to first change the laws so that companies can tell if they're hiring legals or illegals. My dad runs a textile plant in Georgia and the law says that all the can do is ask for a social security number. Then they run that number and it tells them a)Whether the number was a valid number and b) The birthdate associated with that number.

If the people buy a number (which they do) and then make their birthdate match that, then they're home free. That's it. Companies can't legally require any more than that (at least in Georgia) and so he really can't tell if they're illegal or not.

10/26/2006 1:05:16 PM

^^ living in a poor country and leaving to American to make money and robbing someone because you suck at life are two totally different things.

10/26/2006 1:16:57 PM

I agree

because robbing someone is always ILLEGAL

but there are LEGAL ways to immigrate to America

Illegally immigrating to the United States because you suck too much at life to go through the legal channels is retarded

10/26/2006 1:24:28 PM

TreeTwista, you got any idea what those channels are?

My dad's boss is a Swiss-born American citizen who is married to a Philipino woman waiting for citizenship. She's been waiting 7 years and has not been given the opportunity to take any test for citizenship. There is lots more demand for citizenship than the legal channels allow. I wouldn't say sucking at life is the reason people don't do it.

10/26/2006 1:30:59 PM

I have a brief familiarity with the channels

At least enough to know that if you do go through the legal channels, you can get provisions to live in the United States while you are waiting for your citizenship to be processed (which yes, can take a number of years)

Has your dad's boss' Philipino wife been living in the United States?

10/26/2006 1:36:12 PM

Fuck this illegal immigration. Its an embarassment that we can't control our borders. I'm as sympathetic as the next fella, but unless all immigration is controlled then it just hurts our country.

10/26/2006 1:45:22 PM

Quote :

"If the people buy a number (which they do) and then make their birthdate match that, then they're home free. That's it. Companies can't legally require any more than that (at least in Georgia) and so he really can't tell if they're illegal or not."

About ~10 million per year come up as not matching. And guess what, the government doesn't do shit about it.

Quote :

"but unless all immigration is controlled then it just hurts our country"

Yea, do you want to pay more for your homes, produce, etc, because lazy folks want to be paid double to do the same work, do a shittier job of it, and demand to have the best health care available?

Does that hurt our country?

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 1:55 PM. Reason : a]

10/26/2006 1:54:37 PM

Yeah!!!!^

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS THE CORNERSTONE OF EFFECTIVE CAPITOLISM!!!!

10/26/2006 1:59:35 PM

Quote :

"My dad's boss is a Swiss-born American citizen who is married to a Philipino woman waiting for citizenship. She's been waiting 7 years and has not been given the opportunity to take any test for citizenship. There is lots more demand for citizenship than the legal channels allow. I wouldn't say sucking at life is the reason people don't do it."

Immigration and attaining citizenship are two different matters. That said I know several illegal immigrant families and I know several legal immigrant families. One legal immigrant family I know waited over 7 years to get a visa to come here. I respect them for that. At the same time I can sympathize with the people that came across illegally because the current process for coming over legally is broken.

10/26/2006 1:59:54 PM

Quote :

"Yea, do you want to pay more for your homes, produce, etc, because lazy folks want to be paid double to do the same work, do a shittier job of it, and demand to have the best health care available?"

Do you want your taxes that you pay to go to providing education and healthcare to people who aren't even legal US citizens? Cause thats whats happening right now

PS: As someone who has worked in many facets of the construction industry, manual labor is manual labor...black...white...mexican...legal...illegal...its not a high paying job if you're not a skilled laborer...so basically homes will not cost any more

10/26/2006 2:00:41 PM

Well considering a portion of the money that goes toward education comes from paying local property tax and considering that a portion comes from the state lottery, I'd say that illegals are paying their way when it comes to footing the education bill.

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:05 PM. Reason : n]

10/26/2006 2:04:44 PM

So all the illegals that rent and therefore don't pay property tax...what about them?

Or maybe all the illegals that don't pay income tax?

How about a year ago when there wasn't any lottery money?

If you're not paying the taxes that an American citizen pays, then you're not footing any bills

lol @ assuming all illegals own property and buy lotto tickets

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:11 PM. Reason : .]

10/26/2006 2:06:25 PM

WTF does it matter? I don't care if someone else makes more money than me, what should I care if someone is paying less in taxes than me?

10/26/2006 2:14:15 PM

Quote :

"So all the illegals that rent and therefore don't pay property tax...what about them?"

Think about it for a second. Do the people they rent from pay property taxes? Where does the money the landlords use to pay their property tax come from? Education funds also come from taxes on vehicles. Which everyone that owns a vehicle, illegal or otherwise, pays.

Quote :

"Or maybe all the illegals that don't pay income tax?"

Any illegal that doesn't work under the table probably pays income tax. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that waiters and waitresses cheat the income tax system to a greater net loss than the entire illegal community.

Quote :

"How about a year ago when there wasn't any lottery money?"

How about two hundred years ago when they let anyone that wanted just come on over?

Quote :

"If you're not paying the taxes that an American citizen pays, then you're not footing any bills"

If they have paid one red cent in gas tax they have footed a bill. Or do you want me to believe that the money that is collected from them just goes to a special "don't spend this money" fund?

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:15 PM. Reason : -]

10/26/2006 2:14:17 PM

Quote :

"PS: As someone who has worked in many facets of the construction industry, manual labor is manual labor...black...white...mexican...legal...illegal...its not a high paying job if you're not a skilled laborer...so basically homes will not cost any more"

Do you understand basic supply and demand and how it relates to getting people to work for you?

Here ya go, in hopes you'll be educated a little
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=BORDER-HOMES-06-16-06

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:19 PM. Reason : a]

10/26/2006 2:18:20 PM

Quote :

"Or do you want me to believe that the money that is collected from them just goes to a special "don't spend this money" fund? "

no i want you to realize that a lot of their money isnt collected...they send it back to their families in their home countries...they take money out of the economy...I mean I could come up with great excuses like "How about two hundred years ago..." and defend any illegal actions if I wanted to as well

^Do you understand that some of the jobs like landscaping and construction...the jobs you claim will immediately require huge pay hikes if we can get the illegals out of the system...were usually worked by high school / college kids as summer jobs? That the wages havent changed any more than any other industry based on inflation?

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:21 PM. Reason : /]

10/26/2006 2:19:40 PM

Quote :

"no i want you to realize that a lot of their money isnt collected...they send it back to their families in their home countries...they take money out of the economy..."

It leaves the US forever, never to return? I heard this mentioned long ago, but that money has to flow somewhere doesn't it? You don't think it comes back to the US in some shape or fashion?

10/26/2006 2:20:55 PM

We can both speculate about what they do with their money

The only definite fact is that you're defending people who are breaking the law because you are supposedly sympathetic to their situations in their native countries

Quote :

"You don't think it comes back to the US in some shape or fashion?"

I don't think when my taxes go to provide services for illegals any of those come back to me

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/26/2006 2:22:46 PM

Quote :

"no i want you to realize that a lot of their money isnt collected...they send it back to their families in their home countries...they take money out of the economy..."

No, the money that gets sent back to Mexico is from the funds they are left with after all their bills have been paid. Bills including taxes. BTW. Do you think that immigrants that come across legally wouldn't send money back to Mexico?

Quote :

"I mean I could come up with great excuses like "How about two hundred years ago..." and defend any illegal actions if I wanted to as well"

You did come up with excuses. "How about a year ago..." I was making a point that if you are going to argue the past be prepared for others to follow suit.

Quote :

"lol @ assuming all illegals own property and buy lotto tickets"

I think you missed the point. The point wasn't "latinos buy lottery tickets... lol" it was that the tax collection methods do not discriminate or distinguish between the legal and the illegal.

[Edited on October 26, 2006 at 2:29 PM. Reason : -]

10/26/2006 2:25:36 PM