http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-371776751480423823&q=Deandre+Brunston

i'll refrain from any sort of dialouge until when/if someone watches and responds

10/30/2006 10:28:17 AM

well, he told them numerous times he had a gun and that he was gonna kill them

I'm not a fan of police tactics sometimes, but wish this had been resolved peacefully

10/30/2006 10:53:33 AM

nevermind, I read the side story about that situation

thats fucked up and I hope they pay for it

10/30/2006 11:00:08 AM

Just goes to show that the term "police negotiator" is a fallacy.

10/30/2006 11:03:14 AM

^^and the "gun" was a flipflop he had found on the porch

^ exactly. Granted he did keep saying he was gonna "shoot them if..."

but police are trained to diffuse situations like this

dude was still alive on the porch but they were more worried about the goddamn dog

10/30/2006 11:13:37 AM

well, he said he was gonna shoot them, if they let the dog loose... the point was that they should never have let the dog loose, they killed him anyways


why would they not let him speak to his girl? would she not speak to him?

it doesn't matter what the "gun" usually is, he was acting as if he had a gun and he was telling the cops that if they let the dogs loose or shot him with non-lethal weapons that he would shoot in whatever direction it came from

he was an idiot... and the dumbass cops there made it much worse

10/30/2006 11:21:07 AM

kill whitey.

10/30/2006 11:30:02 AM

wow that is the most messed up thing i have seen in a while... why have i not heard about this until now? There seems to be no reason why they couldn't just wait him out or let him speak to the freakin girl.

10/30/2006 11:48:21 AM

Ok, so the side story told me they broke procedure by ordering the K-9 attack. Is that true? I mean, I'd like to have that verified.

Had the story gone down like the cops said at the scene (they can't find the girl so they told him they would use the dogs) then I have no problem with the way things happened.

BUT, the side story claims the girl was in a squad car the whole time. If that's true, then it is fucked up. They should have let them talk from a distance, or by radio. Then, if he still refused to throw the gun (flip-flop, it doesn't matter, he represented a gun) down, order the dog attack and the shooting if he pulls his weapon.

But fuck ya'll that think its not okay for them to shoot him because he pulled a flip-flop, there is no way to tell what's coming out of a pocket when they pull it that fast, so if you pull a twinkie that you're representing as a gun, you deserve to die.

Someone verify that side story a little more. If she was in the car, they fucked up big time.

Quote :

"wow that is the most messed up thing i have seen in a while... why have i not heard about this until now? There seems to be no reason why they couldn't just wait him out or let him speak to the freakin girl."

Wait him out? Until what, he fell asleep?

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 11:49 AM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 11:48:32 AM

^ racist

10/30/2006 11:51:11 AM

no, of course not... but the damn video was 22 minutes long. you dont think they could have waited a little longer before they basically forced his hand with the dogs?? The guy wasn't waving a gun around or anything. He was relatively calmly sitting there talking about what he wanted from the cops.

Would I be threatening cops with a weapon? Hell no. But that doesn't give the cops the right to basically escalate the situation to violence so quickly. There were no negotiations besides the cops saying they wouldn't let the guy talk to the girl.

10/30/2006 11:52:36 AM

I'm sorry, were you serious? Did I make mention of race or even indirectly refer to it?
That's a ridiculous troll, living up to the username well.

Quote :

"There were no negotiations besides the cops saying they wouldn't let the guy talk to the girl."

Maybe you watched it on mute. Did you hear the guy. 1 demand only. Let him talk to the girl or he would rather die right there. He said it and my guess was that he meant it. What would you negotiate on?

10/30/2006 11:55:11 AM

if the SWAT show on A&E is any indication of most units they usually dont let them talk to whoever because it often just escalates the problem, its standard procedure

10/30/2006 11:58:13 AM

Without being certain that he had a gun, I don't think they are justified in shooting him at all. He was pretty trapped, and they had enough time to arrange cover for themselves. They should have made sure he was actually a threat before killing him.

It might seem unreasonable, but we have to put this burden on the police to make sure they don't get too trigger happy. And it's not like the police don't know this either. I bet most cops would not have shot, this guy got unlucky.

I've seen multiple episodes of Cops where they KNEW the guy had a gun, and STILL didn't shoot him. These cops were extremely careless and negligent, and in no way justified.

10/30/2006 12:00:18 PM

Really? If that is procedure, it isn't their fault for following it. I'd need that to be substantiated too, but if it were, that only leaves the problem of the procedure for usage of the dog.

non-lethal weapons would have been great here. A taser from the area of the camera would have saved this guy's life. Although he probably wouldn't want that, since he made it clear he wasn't going back to jail and he was a suspect in a murder case.

10/30/2006 12:00:47 PM

Quote :

"It might seem unreasonable, but we have to put this burden on the police to make sure they don't get too trigger happy. And it's not like the police don't know this either. I bet most cops would not have shot, this guy got unlucky."

I don't expect police to make sure the guy has a loaded gun before they shoot at him. If I put a gun barrel in my pocket and point it at you so that you can't tell I actually have a gun, I can shoot you with it before you ever know its a gun. Do they really have to let him pop one of them first?

10/30/2006 12:02:24 PM

I didn't say loaded gun, I just said gun. They weren't even sure he had a gun, period.

If the cops shot everyone they suspected to have a gun, they would be shooting a LOT of people. Cops encounter gun-toting criminals all the time, but the default response is not to shoot first, ask questions later. I'm pretty certain this is policy, but don't have anything concrete at the moment to back this up.

In the military, during urban combat, they're not suppose to fire on targets until the CO confirms that it is a threat (usually be it shooting at them), I don't see why regular street cops wouldn't have a similar policy.

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 12:35 PM. Reason : ]

10/30/2006 12:32:44 PM

Quote :

", but the default response is not to shoot first, ask questions later. "

"Do you have a gun"
"Yes and I'm going to shoot you"

ding ding ding

10/30/2006 12:44:11 PM

That works the other way too, doesn't it?

"Do you have a gun?"
"no, of course not"
BANG
"psych"

10/30/2006 12:49:09 PM

Was the shooting an accident? It looked like the guy was just sitting there like he'd been doing for 15 minutes and the cops just opened fire and cursed afterward.

10/30/2006 1:50:39 PM

Shivian, maybe you missed the release of the dog that prompted him to pull his "gun"

10/30/2006 2:14:36 PM

Maybe I got thrown off by the sound and video not being in sync. It looked like the cops blasted him before he even moved. I went back and listened without sound so I wouldn't be distracted by that.

19:12: Guy flings gun away from him. Then Gunfire starts.
19:13: Dog runs onto porch. Still shooting.
19:14: Still shooting.
19:15: Still shooting.
19:16: Still shooting.

I kindof expected trained police officers to tell the difference between someone pulling a gun and throwing one away, especially before shooting the bejesus out of somebody. It looks like they screwed the pooch on this one (no pun intended.) In any case, couldn't they have given him more time, gotten his girlfriend on the phone, hit him with beanbags, gassed him out, and/or sent multiple dogs at him?

10/30/2006 3:47:11 PM

did you watch the whole thing?

he said "if you send the dogs in or shoot at me with a bean bag I am gonna shoot in the direction that it came from"

they shouldn't have sent the dogs in yet, I think eventually he would ahve given up or "made a move"
the guy already said he wasn't going back to prison, he wanted suicide by force


well, thats the gist of it, he siad mother fucker alot too

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 3:57 PM. Reason : ..]

10/30/2006 3:55:20 PM

Yeah, why?

10/30/2006 3:56:06 PM

I think the flying "gun" was the reaction of him slinging it out and getting shot at the same time



***I'm not defending the cops here***

10/30/2006 3:58:19 PM

Quote :

"19:12: Guy flings gun flip flop away from him. Then Gunfire starts."

and yea, im not defending the guy, it was mighty dumb of him to do what he did


but he has the same ailment most black people have: not trusting cops.

I dont even have a record and dont trust a cop to try and help me out.

there coulda been a better way than lickin 81 shots at the kid, especially if, as others said, his girl really was at the scene

10/30/2006 4:33:31 PM

Quote :

"but he has the same ailment most black people have: not trusting cops"

I'm white and don't trust them

especially after 2 cop cars fell in behind me in the neighborhood back behind playmakers and pulled me over for "slowing down in front of the wrong house"... I did make it a point to continue on with them behind me until I made it to the playmakers parking lot where there are plenty of witnesses and lights before pulling over for them

I was still driving my expedition with the tint then too... they let me go after just glancing at my license... but I was pissed


I still don't know about the 81 shots being fired

unless it was 10 guys all with full auto weapons

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:37:15 PM

Quote :

" They then unleashed an attack dog on him, and began shooting. When it was over, Deandre had been shot a total of 22 times, and over 80 rounds of ammunition had been discharged from three police guns. The deputies didn’t just shoot an innocent African American man; they also shot their own dog. After they realized that they had shot the dog, they called for an ambulance and airlifted the dog to a nearby veterinary hospital in Norwalk, where the animal eventually died, while they left young Brunston on the street to bleed to death. "

10/30/2006 4:52:11 PM

Quote :

"19:12: Guy flings gun away from him. Then Gunfire starts. 19:13: Dog runs onto porch. Still shooting. 19:14: Still shooting. 19:15: Still shooting. 19:16: Still shooting. "

Let's back that up to somewhere around 19:11 when they let the dog go. (Not saying that was the right thing to do, but lets go with what happened)

The guy "flings his gun away from him" or in the real world, he pulled his hand out of his pocket to try to fight off the dog as it rushed him.
That gives the cops less than 2 seconds to decide if he was tossing a gun or shooting (I'd guess shooting since he repeatedly promised to do so) or, as actually happened, tossing a flip flop.

2 seconds to decide isn't a lot considering the consequence could very well be your own death.

Blame them for breaking procedures by letting the dog go, or not letting him talk to the girlfriend of whatever, but once that dog was let go and he pulled his hand out, they had every right to pull the trigger before verifying it was a gun and he was shooting. Should they have continuously pulled the trigger once they did? I dunno, that's a procedural question too.

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:53 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:52:44 PM

all three had to be auto, cause it was quick


anyways, they shouldn't have let the dogs loose, you can wait if it keeps you from having to kill a man, no matter how shitty this guy already was

Quote :

"Blame them for breaking procedures by letting the dog go, or not letting him talk to the girlfriend of whatever, but once that dog was let go and he pulled his hand out, they had every right to pull the trigger before verifying it was a gun and he was shooting. Should they have continuously pulled the trigger once they did? I dunno, that's a procedural question too."

and to be honest, the guy said on camera that he wasn't going to go to jail for life

he was already wanted on murder charges....

he got what he wanted... it happens a lot in law enforcement

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:53:55 PM

if the dog is doing its job, which he obviously would have gotten him down

no shots needed to be fired

the dog was on his ass in seconds, quicker than a cop could pull a trigger, which is why he got hit

oh and greg, i wasnt sayin not trusting cops is a black-only thing

but i think maybe we born wit it

maybe its Maybeline

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:54:49 PM

they should have just let the dog do its job.

if dude is on the ground getting mauled by a dog, i doubt he's going to be able to pull his "gun" and start blasting rounds. and if he DOES, the shots arent going to be accurate and then you can take him down.


[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ^ damn, in before me]

10/30/2006 4:55:44 PM

ummm, the last thing you want is someone just banging off round after round without aiming


the cops would ahve been blamed(also) if a stray bullet from this guys "gun" had hit someone else

Quote :

"oh and greg, i wasnt sayin not trusting cops is a black-only thing but i think maybe we born wit it maybe its Maybeline"

haha yeah, I wasn't born with it, my dad is a retired RPD captain, but I've learned that there are def some bad apples in that occupation

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:58 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:56:53 PM

how many vids have you seen with a dude rushing a dude armed, with his gun already out and aiming

and the dog made it to his ass and took him down

this dude was no where near in a "threatening formation" in the literal sense of things.

10/30/2006 4:57:44 PM

^^well, i disagree with that

the cops being blamed if the guy accidentally shoots someone? (which is highly unlikely given that he's being mauled by a big ass german shepard) yeah right

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:58:02 PM

Quote :

"how many vids have you seen with a dude rushing a dude armed, with his gun already out and aiming and the dog made it to his ass and took him down"

unaimed shots are just as deadly as aimed shots sometimes

^ you obviously don't pay attention to the frivolous lawsuits clogging up our court system

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:58:55 PM

im saying if man aimed and ready cant get a shot off

i say its 99% impossible to rustle your gun out and let off shots

granted ive never been mauled by a dog and tried to get my gun out, but thats the point of em.

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 5:00 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 4:59:48 PM

I'm pretty sure I can pull a trigger while being mauled


it might not be accurate

this is what it boils down to

Quote :

"and to be honest, the guy said on camera that he wasn't going to go to jail for life he was already wanted on murder charges.... he got what he wanted... it happens a lot in law enforcement "

10/30/2006 5:01:01 PM

this thread is full of assumptions and whatnot, but i still think they should have let the dog do its job, because i highly doubt dude is going to get off shots while being thrashed by a dog.

and we have no idea what the scene was like. i mean, were there tons of bystanders chillin around the area in harms way? who knows

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 5:03 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 5:03:02 PM

^^granted

but you know how often cops pull shit like that and get people up on charges

especially youth (i dont wanna say black, inner city youth, but you know) that aren't up on the law

^ yea, im pretty sure the cops had the area secured

but seeing as how these dudes reacted, i wouldnt be surprised if that protocol was ignored too

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 5:03:42 PM

oh I know... it shouldn't have gone down like that


I feel the dogs shouldn't have been released yet

I think if they had waited, the guy would have eventually given up or made a move prompting the police to shoot him in the first place... he gets what he wants and they don't look like assholes

when they released the dog, he pretended to do just what he said he was gonna do and the cops that actually pulled the trigger did what they were supposed to do in a shoot/no shoot situation

when a criminal is armed, you don't wait for them to start spraying, you wait until they cross the line between "having a weapon" and actually making movements that threaten use of the weapon

you damn sure don't prompt him tofollow through with his threats and they did, which was releasing the dog

I doubt the whole "area" was secured, bullets can go a long way and still be deadly... it may have been secured in the direction the cops were shooting, but errant shots could still have gone and killed someone a block down the road

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2006 5:20:24 PM

Quote :

"That gives the cops less than 2 seconds to decide if he was tossing a gun or shooting"

Well, I find it disturbing that law enforcement can't tell the difference between a guy trying to shoot them and an unarmed man huddling against a wall.

I want to know how any man could've survived this. A fucking dog was running at him to bite his ass! What move was he supposed to make that doesn't involve him getting shot? Apparently throwing away what he had in his hand and falling back against the wall wasn't it.

10/30/2006 6:56:39 PM

Quote :

"Well, I find it disturbing that law enforcement can't tell the difference between a guy trying to shoot them and an unarmed man huddling against a wall. I want to know how any man could've survived this. A fucking dog was running at him to bite his ass! What move was he supposed to make that doesn't involve him getting shot? Apparently throwing away what he had in his hand and falling back against the wall wasn't it."

he was trying to act as if he was "hiding" a gun, hell he told everyone he had one and he told them that he intended to use it

were they supposed to use super secret cop xray vision to determine that he didn't have one?

the police dog isn't trained to kill people, it's trained to go after their arm

once again, pretty much the only cop fuckup was letting the dogs go so early, they should have waited and he would have either made a move that got him shot, which he already implied was what he wanted, or he would have said "ok, this sucks, and I'm tired of it, just lock me up"

10/30/2006 7:09:37 PM

so what exactly was the point of the dog? you know he's going to move when the dog comes at him, and if he moves they're going to shoot him. so basically they forced him to move so they could shoot him?

gg police

10/30/2006 7:50:02 PM

That was so sad.

I was just thinking what could've been different in the early years of this guy's life that would have led him down a different path.

Everyone all around made some bad decisions.

I felt very sorry for that guy, and watching that poor dog get shot really tore me up.

Damn.

10/30/2006 8:43:27 PM

OK, this is a touchy one.

The police did something that was not in line with their policy, and for that they should be punished. No matter how else this could have ended -- even if the guy did have a gun -- they need some kind of penalty for dicking up their own procedures and, as far as I can tell, acting against their instructions from the guys in charge who were on the scene.

I don't think they should get much more than the stiffest penalty for a procedural fuckup, though, unless it can be demonstrated that the people responsible acted with the intent of bringing on this guy's death. Excluding that possibility, I don't really think they should catch shit for the guy having died -- he made it pretty clear that that's how he saw himself going out. Several times he said something to the effect of, "I won't go back to jail." Sounds an awful lot like suicide by cop to me. Regardless, you can't make threats to any group of heavily armed men that have better numbers, weapons, and strategy than you do and expect to come out of it well.

So, if there wasn't just a racist or belligerent fuck-up of a cop that exacerbated the situation with the dog or whatever, just punish them for dicking up procedure. If there was such a cop, hang him from the tallest tree in that town.

10/30/2006 8:49:39 PM

I just watched it. Thats some fucking bullshit right there.

10/30/2006 8:52:00 PM

i havent been able to find much about this on the internets. i did happen 3 years ago, but still.

i found this, but i have no idea how accurate it may be:

Quote :

"The order to release the K9 was given over cell phone by Lt. Patrick Maxwell from a Sunday night drinking party over the shouting protest of the K9 officer on the scene, Earnest Burwell, who Maxwell ordered away, and who then quit as deputy, agreed to testify, and is now hiding for his life from his former co-workers. Lt. Patrick Maxwell was suspended five days in 2003 for killing a suspect who had fled into the San Gabriel River, shooting him with projectiles from land for 3 hours until he drowned. Maxwell was the lieutenant who decided to use road flares to "burn out" an suspect who had been hiding in a house near Palmdale. The man died of gunshot wounds and burns. In Torrance in 1990, Maxwell shot and killed an unarmed mistaken suspect who was face down on the ground. In 1999, Maxwell was assigned as Sheriff Lee Baca's personal assistant and driver. He was then promoted to head of K9 units for the entire Los Angeles County. "

10/30/2006 9:02:26 PM

Quote :

"I want to know how any man could've survived this. A fucking dog was running at him to bite his ass! What move was he supposed to make that doesn't involve him getting shot? Apparently throwing away what he had in his hand and falling back against the wall wasn't it."

I have an idea! Toss the gun away and surrender BEFORE they release the dog. You know, at some point during the at least 22 minute standoff. I think it would have worked.

And once again, no man could survive this with the mentality of "I'm wanted for murder, so I'm fixin to die out here, fuck ya'll lets do this"

10/31/2006 7:13:43 AM

Ooh, a 20-minute standoff. That's pretty long.

And it seemed to me that the dominant mentality was "Let me talk to my gf and I'll give up."

10/31/2006 9:09:46 AM