HR keeps sending us subpar resumes so I figured I'd post here.

We need one student for Spring 07 and one Dec 06 graduate or someone who has graduated in the past 18 months for a full time position.

Strong java skills a must.

The full time position is L2 Support for Websphere Portlet Factory, a plug-in for eclipse/RAD which developers use.

The coop position will also make sure of this tool in order to create metrics for the department.

11/10/2006 11:25:41 AM

is the pay rate competitive for the ft position?

11/10/2006 11:27:12 AM

Yes, it is on the same level as a software developer or a software tester.

11/10/2006 11:28:50 AM

just stay away from Global Services...

11/10/2006 3:39:16 PM

It's not services.

11/10/2006 3:53:19 PM

You couldn't pay me enough money to do Java!

11/10/2006 4:10:53 PM

IBM is a bad place to start your career, at least in America.

This coming from one whose dad was "offered" retirement by IBM a few years ago after he had worked there since he was 19.

Oh well, he's living it up. David, he appreciates the pension.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:29 PM. Reason : did I really just say their instead of there?]

11/10/2006 4:13:27 PM

Dude that made no sense.

11/10/2006 4:17:25 PM

^ He's saying that the company rewarded his loyalty by forcing him to retire early.

11/10/2006 4:23:52 PM

You guys hate java, global services, IBM, I get it. Thank you so much for getting the thread off topic.

To touch briefly on your post, IBM now has 401ks with automatic vesting and 100% matching up to 6% after the first year. You no longer have to worry about pensions.

As far as IBM being a bad place to start, as a full timer you'll also get 15 vacation days, 12 paid holidays, free basic dental, and free basic medical.

As a coop you'll be making more than a lot of your friends will after they've graduate and gone on to get full time jobs. Besides, it never hurts to have a big name on your resume.

11/10/2006 4:25:29 PM

crap id apply if i didn't have one of those subpar resumes you speak of

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 4:26 PM. Reason : i used to have strong java skills, i'm sure they'd come back ]

11/10/2006 4:25:41 PM

I'm actually not trying to toss mud on IBM. This is a good opportunity that people should take up.

11/10/2006 4:34:25 PM

David, I'm glad you've bought into IBM but quit kidding yourself. IBM is an awful place to start if you care at all about job security. This is true for a lot of industries. All of this, of course, is wisdom from my pops. My dad was in charge of all Websphere training in North America and hosted most all Websphere conferences in NA.

11/10/2006 4:35:02 PM

Job security? Welcome to the 21st century. What company gives computer scientists job security?

For the record I did not start out at IBM. I quit my previous job to come work for IBM and I have no regrets thus far.

11/10/2006 4:39:07 PM

Feel like you are under attack, eh?

Just saying, IBM is headed east.

11/10/2006 4:41:28 PM

IBM is as good a place as any. There is no such thing as "job security" in any field within American industry that doesn't involve medicine. Getting a technical job at IBM is an excellent opportunity to expand your personal knowledge and develop your career. Its unfortunate that some people's parents have experienced downsizing (mine have) but you shouldn't let that cloud your own personal choices.

11/10/2006 4:43:37 PM

I don't feel like I am under attack. Feel free to go work at some 20 person startup. Maybe you will be part of the .0001% that make it big like google. Good luck to you sir.

11/10/2006 4:48:13 PM

Noone gets a job nowadays and expects to retire with that same company... So it doesnt matter if you start at IBM, ATT, Nortel.. blah blah blah... Chances are you wont retire there.. I worked at IBM for 6 years and hated it but I still talk to friends who work there and they like it.. I was just in a shitty department.


Nothing wrong with getting hired, getting some experience and jetting if a better opportunity comes along.. Or moving to India...

11/10/2006 4:49:34 PM

Well said.

11/10/2006 4:52:40 PM

hey i wasn't commenting , just translating for the guy who didnt seem to understand the comment.

11/10/2006 5:02:05 PM

Sounds like Madman got a mad case of the sour grapes.

11/10/2006 5:15:08 PM

12 paid holidays? I work for the Feds, we had today off(holiday), that sounds like IBM gives the same days off the Fed gov does.

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 5:16 PM. Reason : w]

11/10/2006 5:15:43 PM

I think it's 6 national 6 personal choice.

11/10/2006 5:18:36 PM

ahhh, ok...yeah, when I tell people I have today paid holiday, most of them dont even know what it is for.

11/10/2006 5:20:31 PM

i was going to post in this thread...but most of my points have been made for me...but i will state them again:

there is no such thing as job security, don't expect to retire with the company you start with, IBM is a great company to work for (my dad has been happy there for almost 29 years), 27 days of paid time off to start is no joke.

11/10/2006 6:23:16 PM

Is this a contract position? Contract positions at IBM suuuuuck.

11/10/2006 7:32:42 PM

Look, I will never work at IBM because I personally know that they shuffle out experienced professionals to cut costs. It's not dillusional to realize that there is no such thing as "job security" (for technical positions), but I will remain principled regardless. Anything less is whoring yourself and your principles out for money.

11/10/2006 7:41:31 PM

Stop focussing on the money for a sec and think about the experience.

No, it is not a contract position and yes, contract positions do suck.

11/10/2006 7:55:03 PM

its not your daddy's ibm anymore. I agree about the co-op , it has paid for grad school =) thanks ibm. I know that first year grad students get paid 25/hr and 2nd year grad students get paid 32/hr although you don't get paid overtime. As a undergraduate you make a little less but get to work overtime. As for job security , there might not be any , but its about how much work there is to go around. They do actually try to reassign you, but I don't think they try as hard as they could. I think Software Group seems a bit more stable than any other divisons.

11/10/2006 8:26:35 PM

Quote :

"2nd year grad students get paid 32/hr although "

jesus, my offer for a FT position was really bad then if thats a co-op position..

lowballin punks.

ahah

[Edited on November 10, 2006 at 8:29 PM. Reason : accepted another job for 18% more per year]

11/10/2006 8:29:14 PM

go to grad sk00l =)

11/10/2006 8:39:37 PM

i just found out this week my company wasnt going to pay for a masters at drexel like i was told.

11/10/2006 9:01:22 PM

aahhh bastards! drexel is a fun and expensive school. they have a good engineering program.

11/10/2006 9:33:46 PM

i'm in global services with ibm and love it

11/11/2006 12:15:27 AM

Quote :

"just stay away from Global Services..."

please expand on that. i've been looking at it and it seems like a kickass job.

also ^ how is it working out for you so far?

11/11/2006 12:24:19 AM

Ok, so this is my 3rd draft of this post...

In the first one I tried to explain why working for IBM was a horrible idea for various reasons. Sadly, I felt like that was a little too arrogant since I know lots of people who would be completely happy working @ IBM for the rest of their lives.

In the second draft I tried to convey the point that IBM is good for people who can look past all of the problems, take the paycheck, and live happily ever after... even though it may not be a good idea for people who want 'more' out of life. Unfortunately, that message didn't turn out right either.

So, I've ended at this: in response to the previous post, IBM can be a kickass job. The pay is high; the work-balance life can be good or bad; and the job security is reasonable in a decent economy (thank you Republicans :-) ). If you haven't worked in corporate America before I would highly reccomend it as long as you are willing to look past the paycheck and be honest w/ yourself about what you want out of life.

If it matters, I will have been employed @ IBM for 5 years in January (2.5 FT, 2.5 COOP) and am looking for any chance I can find to get out.

11/11/2006 4:53:26 AM

Ok, and on a separate 'work related' topic, I died a little inside today...

In my job I developed a software technology called XMX.

In the past year or so, an open source technology has emerged call SIHI which has a component that mirrors the function of XMX.

This afternoon, while sitting in a meeting, a coworker IMs me and says: "When designing/creating XMX, why didn't you decide to use SIHI's version of XMX (except for the fact that SIHI didn't exist @ the time)?"

I was speechless.

11/11/2006 5:00:11 AM

Hey, I'm not down on outsourcing--it's simply comparative advantage at work--but SandSanta mentioned that the medical field was relatively safe. Well, think again:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9503E5D91238F935A25752C1A9659C8B63&fta=y

11/11/2006 5:20:23 AM

haha

[Edited on November 11, 2006 at 7:26 AM. Reason : s]

11/11/2006 7:25:33 AM

Too bad man, you could've been a Drexel Dragon (plus they do have a very solid engineering college).

Mostly though....DRAGON! Rawwwwr.

11/11/2006 7:40:26 AM

In other news, Cisco is hiring tons of new grads, and job security is much better there...

Besides, they pay just as much as IBM, if not more.

Let me know if you want to interview.

11/11/2006 10:08:46 AM

Quote :

"and job security is much better there"

Really? I know this dude that has been laid off 3 times from there. Maybe he's just a tard.

11/11/2006 10:49:56 AM

We've only ever had one layoff in company history, in 2000.

so if he was a permanent employee, he's full of shit, or he was a contractor who had three terms that ended, which is not anywhere near the same thing as being laid off.

11/11/2006 11:07:54 AM

^ Isn't IBM mostly contractors though?

which no isn't the same as a layoff but not renewing thousands of contracts is kinda the same thing just without the press and bad PR.

Not trying to bash, this is just what i've heard, maybe somebody here has better insight on it than I've got.
That working for IBM itself is okay, the work environment can be shitty but not always.
But that most employees are contractors and that they pretty much get screwed 6 ways to sunday because of it. but IBM doesnt do that to its "employees" and they technically aren't.

I dont know, IBM fulltime, I could see.
I dont want any part of IBM contract work though...

[Edited on November 11, 2006 at 11:17 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on November 11, 2006 at 11:17 AM. Reason : .]

11/11/2006 11:16:08 AM

Quote :

"please expand on that. i've been looking at it and it seems like a kickass job. also ^ how is it working out for you so far?"

if you like to travel then you'll like it i think - that is typically the deciding factor of whether you like the job or not i think - to be successful at the job you must have good social skills

sometimes you are on good projects - sometimes they suck - the people you work with are always changing and to get on your next project (easily) sometimes will rely on you networking on people that have worked in services for a long time and know the game well - depending on what group you are in will determine whether you are usually on longterm or short term projects - my group's projects are usually less than a month long but i was loaned out to another group for a longterm project for my first one - for the past 2 weeks i've been the only one at the client's site dealing with the customer - and if you aren't social and can't manage expectations then this job probably isn't for you if you want to be successful

i worked as a co-op for 2 years (in software group) and i'm coming up on my 2nd year in services in january - there is just about no way i'd be a developer for ibm in software group at this point just by watching/talking to my old group that i used to be with - it's just not for me but plenty of people love it

if you have specific questions about it feel free to PM me - some things i won't mention on a public messageboard nor to someone who isn't a regular on here probably

11/11/2006 11:18:26 AM

Heh, I was worried when I saw your name Mike, but your post was fairly non biased. I think you would experience some of the things you dislike at any large company.

I had someone contact me to work for Cisco, but they said I had to work 6 months as a contractor before they would consider me for full time employment.

Just to reiterate, this is a full time salaried position. CSC graduates preferred.
The COOP position is for an undergrad CSC student. Junior/Senior preferred.

11/11/2006 11:56:03 AM

if you are a csc student without a job right now you should be jumping at david's offer

if you are a csc graduate - then evaluate if it's for you or if it's not - some people love it - some people don't - this is true for every job just about....

Quote :

"^ Isn't IBM mostly contractors though?"

no - ibm isn't mostly contractors - especially ibmUS

11/11/2006 11:57:52 AM

Quote :

"^ Isn't IBM mostly contractors though?"

I was responding to Patman's comment about Cisco, not IBM.

11/11/2006 11:58:02 AM

If you're looking for a secure job, try working for the government. I'm making 54k, get off all federal holidays, medical, dental, vision, and get free education that pertains to my work. i.e. Electrical/Computer Engineering. I'm getting my masters at USC (South Carolina) since they offer local courses in Charleston, SC. After two/three years of working, you're basically tenured since the process to fire someone is so much trouble. I get to travel all over the United States and have a very flexible schedule.

11/12/2006 8:52:41 PM

I have to post with my thoughts towards MadMan's posts: OF COURSE THEY GET RID OF HIGHLY PAID PROFESSIONALS.

I'm not sure if you've ever heard of this concept, I know it might be a bit complex for ya, but it's called a cost reduction. Big, tough stuff, eh? They do this to ensure another important item called the "survival" of the company.

Sorry dude, but a business is a business. Don't know or care where your story and dislike stem from, but you've gotta realize a business is going to do what it needs to do to float. End of story.

And No, I don't work for IBM, but I do work for another rather large company going through many of the same steps. It's part of the job, bud - companies (and many US in particular..) cannot afford to continue the trends of yesteryear.

11/12/2006 10:43:19 PM