not as an elective, but as a required course

yes or no?

11/16/2006 10:03:23 AM

yes

11/16/2006 10:04:46 AM

haha I'm an idiot... I meant to type "be taught in schools"


oh well

but yeah, I really feel like the government is doing young people a major disservice by not teaching everyone how to be responsible with money, credit etc etc

[Edited on November 16, 2006 at 10:07 AM. Reason : ..]

11/16/2006 10:05:50 AM

Well, it should be covered by parents, but you know you can't trust that (what with most parents living in debt up to their assholes)

So, a simple financial literacy unit could be added into ELPS or as a new class.

11/16/2006 10:10:03 AM

So true. Education in personal financial repsonsiblity is very lacking. Although I doubt, after promoting the recent $900 million loan bond, our education system is in any position to teach financial responsibility.

Even spendiong an hour or so teaching kids how to fill out a check properly or balance an account, or fill out a job application effectively would be welcome.

11/16/2006 10:15:36 AM

thats my line of thinking too...


too many young people get into debt way over their heads... I know it happened to me(despite what my parents tried to tell me) and took a long time for me to get ahead... now I'm grateful that I actually have a positive net worth... but I see how far ahead I could already be if I had done things differently

it's amazing how much money I just wasted on stupid shit.. oh well, I had a good time though

11/16/2006 10:17:59 AM

No, because many of the academics would find a way to twist it into an anticapitalism course.

11/16/2006 10:34:21 AM

^finance is different from economics, there's not a lot of politics in accounting

But yes, I think that there shouldn't be any high school history classes and they should all be replaced with simple personal accounting and investing class, and a few higher level ones. Knowing how to deal with money would be much more helpful to anyone that age than 5 different classes about the revolutionary war - civil war.

11/16/2006 10:46:24 AM

It's amazing to me how people can't seem to get a grasp on the simple spend less than you earn rule.

and

Quote :

"I know it happened to me(despite what my parents tried to tell me) and took a long time for me to get ahead..."

If your parents tried to tell you I don't think a class in school would have helped you out.

11/16/2006 10:54:31 AM

I never spent more than I made, I just made decisions that we're in my best interest with money

well, it's not that I didn't listen to them at all, I was just typical young guy with some money and thought things would always be good... it took some major happenings in my life and being broke as hell for a while to understand

a class could have helped, but what about those people that don't even have parents trying to teach them financial aspects?



[Edited on November 16, 2006 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ..]

11/16/2006 10:58:35 AM

I'm not convinced people do all that horrible a job at finances. The worst budgetters I know at least have a system: (once you hit the credit card maximum stop spending, never have more than one credit card, when unforseen large expenses arise borrow from family). Sure, it sounds poor, but it could be much worse.

11/16/2006 11:04:39 AM

Loneshark, what bothers me about Americans in general is our ridiculously low savings rates. I mean, these people aren't going to get by saving 1-2% of their income and guess who's going to get to foot the bill.

11/16/2006 11:06:25 AM

anything to help ween people off of the government tit... I think financial literacy is a great place to start


sadly, I think alot of politicians wouldn't be for this

11/16/2006 11:11:51 AM

Quote :

"once you hit the credit card maximum stop spending"

i would never spend the credit card maximum - i might could see myself approaching half the limit on account of an emergency or a large one time event like a wedding; or maybe if i was in school and didn't have in-state tuition and financial aid wasn't cutting it - but thats about it

11/16/2006 11:14:55 AM

...in other words, a quarter or semester long course during high school/before kids get innundated with credit cards might be helpful - a course that emphasises to limit your spending and to save early and save often

i bet you could get Fidelity & the gang to come in and teach or even sponsor such a course

11/16/2006 11:21:04 AM

I'm curious what you think should be taught in these courses. Here's why I ask: My girfriend is (was ) terrible with money, even though she knows what she was doing wrong. Her mom is terrible with money too, apparently, and since I studied finance I'm supposed to be "making her a budget," helping her figure out her 401k, etc. But this is not stuff that I learned in college -- it's always just been common knowlege to me. I mean, I do think it'd be good to do something like this, but I sometimes get the feeling that being smart with your money is one of those things that you just can't change.

11/16/2006 11:21:27 AM

I think it should cover

credit cards
savings
basic stocks and the market
401K and other plans
other financial options for earning (other investments)


this is stuff that kids don't know, they they get inundated with once they turn 18

bus 225 is an awesome class at state

11/16/2006 11:24:07 AM

^^ Damn, I would recommend against a joint checking account if she's bad with money.

11/16/2006 11:25:40 AM

how would we keep the poor man down then?

11/16/2006 11:28:03 AM

stick to the fundamentals:

- save early and save often: teach simple financial calculations & theories on coumpounding interest

- don't live beyond your means: case studies about spending too much

- don't fall into the credit card traps: list things to avoid, setting limits, etc.

i bet Suzie Orman would endorse such a course and would even help design it

11/16/2006 11:28:12 AM

and basic concepts on the capital markets too - i.e. stocks



[Edited on November 16, 2006 at 11:29 AM. Reason : ]

11/16/2006 11:29:21 AM

just seems surprising that this hasn't been done yet

just like drivers ed should be required during the school day

11/16/2006 11:35:07 AM

I dunno, what if your time value of money is greater than the credit agency? It is not inconceivable for debt to be rational for some people.

11/16/2006 11:43:02 AM

People like Jim Cramer and Kiyosaki have been trying to make this argument for years, and I personally think that if someone doesn't think that financial education is necessary, than they themselves don't understand the basics that are necessary to understand real world financial security.

Through college I had multiple friends, all in majors unrelated to finance, but were either required or chose to take a personal finance class. Every single one of them came out of it telling me it was among the top 3, if not the most usefull class they had taken at State.

11/16/2006 11:58:04 AM

I was taught, in school, how to use a checkbook in the 5th grade. I would support a more in-depth class, in high school.

Some of you people have a baffling view of the public school system. Anti-capitalist couses? What the fuck are you smoking?

[Edited on November 16, 2006 at 11:59 AM. Reason : .]

11/16/2006 11:58:39 AM

Debt IS rational for a lot of people. I mean, its the reason most finances advisors don't want you waiting to buy a house until you have the whole thing in cash.

But consumer debt is much less likely to be helpful, especially considering that consumer debt is available to people without incomes, ie high school and college students.

It would be ok to teach time value of money and how that might make debt acceptable.
(while we're at it, we can teach them that the same holds true for governments, but most Americans don't get that)

11/16/2006 12:00:47 PM

Yes, financial literacy should most definitely be taught in schools.

So more people can build up wealth so the government can rob it all from their heirs when they pass.

11/16/2006 12:07:22 PM

Quote :

"I'm not convinced people do all that horrible a job at finances."

Then explain lottery tickets and poor people with new cars.

11/16/2006 12:08:58 PM

for once, i'm with Kris.

11/16/2006 12:11:56 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061115/us_nm/financial_retirement_dc

It's more than just credit card debt and knowing not to spend $texas more than you make. You can be fiscally conservative your whole life and still have to live paycheck to paycheck and end up having nothing to retire on.

[Edited on November 16, 2006 at 12:14 PM. Reason : cuz]

11/16/2006 12:13:24 PM

If people were more financially stable, then politicians wouldn't be able to buy their votes as easily. That and people might see through government's screwy policies. So I doubt government schools will be doing this any time soon.

11/16/2006 12:17:29 PM

^ thats what I am afraid of


sadly it comes at the expense of the people that it would help the most

11/16/2006 1:42:25 PM

this thread topic is like saying "should common sense be taught in schools?"

11/16/2006 1:43:21 PM

yeah, too bad thats not even an elective

11/16/2006 1:47:13 PM

my point is, some shit you just can't teach in school

you can teach the principles of financial literacy but kids'll just go out and by their sneakers once the bell rings

11/16/2006 1:47:51 PM

well, they teach stuff like sex ed and it doesn't keep people from having unprotected sex, but it does keep some from doing it

11/16/2006 1:48:59 PM

no, you can't teach someone to be responsible. But you can teach people the tools to use for when they do choose to become resposible.

11/16/2006 2:00:29 PM

Quote :

"If people were more financially stable, then politicians wouldn't be able to buy their votes as easily. That and people might see through government's screwy policies. So I doubt government schools will be doing this any time soon."

That arguement's in line with something I'd expect from salisburyboy. If people began to become more successful as a whole, our economy would be better and that success would be attributed to the government that created it. Your idea that the government wants us to fail is idiotic.

11/16/2006 2:05:50 PM

Quote :

"I'm not convinced people do all that horrible a job at finances."

that's one of the dumbest things i've ever seen posted in the soap box

and that says a lot


who said that? i couldn't find it in the thread, except for when Kris quoted it.

11/16/2006 2:19:56 PM

lonesnark said that

11/16/2006 2:21:10 PM

loneshark said it about 7 or so posts down

11/16/2006 2:21:40 PM

damn, i kinda surprised that he's the one who said that.

no shit they stop spending when they can't get anyone else to sell them money. it really can't be much worse.

11/16/2006 2:26:22 PM

Yeah, I was a little shocked by Loneshark's statement too. I mean, point taken that they have a financial plan, but it isn't one that often leads to successful outcomes.

11/16/2006 2:28:05 PM

i find it strange that almost every one of us agrees about this

11/16/2006 2:29:02 PM

Why would you save for your kid's college tuition when the government gives out grants? It should be one of the last things you save for.

11/16/2006 2:29:35 PM

^^^yeah, i mean, Borat had a plan for getting into Pamela Anderson's pants.

Johnny Knoxville had a plan for fighting Butterbean.

[Edited on November 16, 2006 at 2:33 PM. Reason : ^^^]

11/16/2006 2:30:53 PM

Bring the marriage sack!

I simply think it would not only help them in their personal lives, but considering that every business deals with money, it would be at least marginally helpful for most any career. I would focus the classes on simple accounting, such as when it's best to replace old machinery, or what's the best way to report things on your taxes, but start with the simple credit/debit thing.

11/16/2006 2:36:24 PM

The basics of insurance coverage, present value of money, the correct use of debt, how to budget, rent vs. buy decisions, filing taxes, choosing investments

Those, at the very least, need coverage in high schools.

11/16/2006 2:39:00 PM

I think that Roth IRA and 401K are just important to learn as a lot of that stuff

11/16/2006 2:44:39 PM

in the long run proper financial education should have an effect on people having to rely on the govt.. I don't see how it could ever be construed as a bad thing

11/16/2006 2:48:02 PM